F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
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F-35B USS Wasp DT-III Due 2016, Meanwhile 90 STOs/VLs
Marine Corps F-35B Finishing Sea Trials 29 Aug 2013 Kris Osborn
http://defensetech.org/2013/08/29/ma...ng-sea-trials/
"USS WASP — The Marine Corps and Navy are close to wrapping up 19 days of Sea Trials for the Corps’ F-35B...
...The ongoing Sea Trials have resulted in at least 90 successful short take-offs and 92 vertical landings aboard the USS Wasp, said Joe DellaVedova, spokesman for the Joint Strike Fighter’s Joint Program Office....
...“Harriers are all manual controls. With the F-35 we have computers. A ton of engineering goes into making it a low work load. The plane is literally sampling winds, sampling conditions and the parameters,” said Marine Corps Capt. Michael Kingen, an F-35 developmental test pilot....
...The next Sea Trials for the F-35B are slated for sometime in 2016, DellaVedova said...."
...The ongoing Sea Trials have resulted in at least 90 successful short take-offs and 92 vertical landings aboard the USS Wasp, said Joe DellaVedova, spokesman for the Joint Strike Fighter’s Joint Program Office....
...“Harriers are all manual controls. With the F-35 we have computers. A ton of engineering goes into making it a low work load. The plane is literally sampling winds, sampling conditions and the parameters,” said Marine Corps Capt. Michael Kingen, an F-35 developmental test pilot....
...The next Sea Trials for the F-35B are slated for sometime in 2016, DellaVedova said...."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 29th Aug 2013 at 09:11. Reason: Add JPG screenshot from last video
@Heathrow Harry
Er ... Has someone forgotten a little incident in the South Atlantic in 1982?
And that would have been a cinch if they hadn't scrapped the real Ark Royal
"Carrier aviation is a proven war winner"
the last time it was proven was 1945.....................
it certainly didn't win the war in Vietnam (or Iraq) for example
the last time it was proven was 1945.....................
it certainly didn't win the war in Vietnam (or Iraq) for example
And that would have been a cinch if they hadn't scrapped the real Ark Royal
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New Night Vision Camera Under Test
F-35 team makes headway with helmet-mounted display 28 Aug 2013 Dave Majumdar
F-35 team makes headway with helmet-mounted display
"...Test pilots recently tested a modified second-generation helmet fitted with a new 1600x1200 resolution ISIE-11 night vision camera coupled with a new display management computer/helmet, says Lt Col Matt Kelly, an F-35 test pilot assigned to the JPO.
Kelly says the ISIE-11 immensely improves the helmet's night vision capabilities....
...The ISIE-10 has inferior night vision capability compared with the ANVIS-9 night vision goggles (NVGs) used in the Boeing AV-8B and F/A-18. However, pilots say it is easier to land the F-35B unaided by the night vision camera on a ship than a AV-8B with NVGs."
Kelly says the ISIE-11 immensely improves the helmet's night vision capabilities....
...The ISIE-10 has inferior night vision capability compared with the ANVIS-9 night vision goggles (NVGs) used in the Boeing AV-8B and F/A-18. However, pilots say it is easier to land the F-35B unaided by the night vision camera on a ship than a AV-8B with NVGs."
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19 Night VLs USS Wasp DT-II so far
USMC well into second set of sea trials 28 Aug 2013 Dave Majumdar
USMC well into second set of sea trials
"The Pentagon's F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) and the US Marine Corps are well into a second set of sea trials for the Lockheed Martin F-35B Joint Strike Fighter. Having completed 17 of 19 days of testing, the USMC and the JPO were set to demonstrate the stealth short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) jet on board the amphibious assault ship USS Wasp on 28 August, but then fate intervened. Aircraft BF-1, which was set to fly that morning's test, suffered from a malfunctioning engine nacelle cooling fan that had to be fixed before the jet could fly. Meanwhile, BF-5 - the other aircraft deployed to the Wasp - had a problem with its power thermal management system computer the night before, says US Navy Capt Erik Etz, the programme's test and evaluation director for naval F-35 variants.
Etz says the two events interrupted what had been a better than average reliability rate for the F-35 during the shipboard deployment. Until the night of 27 August, the F-35B had 90% sortie completion rate on board the Wasp, he says.
Despite the setback, the F-35B's sea trial period has been remarkably successful, says Capt Michael Kingen, a USMC F-35 test pilot assigned to the VMX-22 operational test squadron but seconded to the JSF test effort. Thus far, pilots have flown 90 short take-offs and made 92 vertical landings on board the Wasp during this detachment. Nineteen of those vertical landing were made at night.
The goal of this second set of sea trials is to expand the operating envelope of the F-35B in preparation for the jet's initial operational capability date in July 2015. The F-35B has been tested to 40kt (74km/h) of headwind and 10kt of tailwind, Kingen says. Particular attention has been paid to landing with starboard crosswinds, where a lot of turbulence originates due to the ship's superstructure, says Lt Col Matt Kelley, a senior USMC F-35 test pilot assigned to the JPO.
Additionally, the F-35B's short take-off capability was tested with its maximum internal weight, Kingen says. Pilots are also determining the jet's minimum short take-off distance, he says. Those trials involve letting the aircraft "settle" toward the sea as it leaves the deck.
Thus far, Kingen says he is pleased with the aircraft's performance during the sea trials. Ironically, BF-1 flew its test sortie shortly after reporters departed the ship."
Etz says the two events interrupted what had been a better than average reliability rate for the F-35 during the shipboard deployment. Until the night of 27 August, the F-35B had 90% sortie completion rate on board the Wasp, he says.
Despite the setback, the F-35B's sea trial period has been remarkably successful, says Capt Michael Kingen, a USMC F-35 test pilot assigned to the VMX-22 operational test squadron but seconded to the JSF test effort. Thus far, pilots have flown 90 short take-offs and made 92 vertical landings on board the Wasp during this detachment. Nineteen of those vertical landing were made at night.
The goal of this second set of sea trials is to expand the operating envelope of the F-35B in preparation for the jet's initial operational capability date in July 2015. The F-35B has been tested to 40kt (74km/h) of headwind and 10kt of tailwind, Kingen says. Particular attention has been paid to landing with starboard crosswinds, where a lot of turbulence originates due to the ship's superstructure, says Lt Col Matt Kelley, a senior USMC F-35 test pilot assigned to the JPO.
Additionally, the F-35B's short take-off capability was tested with its maximum internal weight, Kingen says. Pilots are also determining the jet's minimum short take-off distance, he says. Those trials involve letting the aircraft "settle" toward the sea as it leaves the deck.
Thus far, Kingen says he is pleased with the aircraft's performance during the sea trials. Ironically, BF-1 flew its test sortie shortly after reporters departed the ship."
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Damage is as Damage does...
Marines Put F-35B STOVL Jet Through Paces At Sea 29 Aug 2013 Colin Clark
Marines Put F-35B STOVL Jet Through Paces At Sea « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary
"More than 1,200 Marine test pilots, engineers, experts from the Joint Program Office running the program and Navy and industry civilians are collecting enormous amounts of data from the two aircraft, BF-1 and BF-5, and the ship itself to ensure the planes are performing as they should....
...both JSF planes had glitches while we were out on the ship, though BF-1 began flying again soon after we left. The second plane appeared to have a “pretty significant problem,” a crew member told me. Its Integrated Power Package, a sort of super generator that powers many of the plane’s sophisticated electronics would not start. I’ve emailed the Joint Program Office for an update and will update this as soon as we hear from them.
One of the biggest concerns about the F-35B, which directs most of the engine’s power directly down to the ship’s deck as it lands, was that it would damage the ship’s deck so much at each landing that the Wasp and other ships — or the F-35B — would have to be redesigned to mitigate that problem. I spoke with several deck crew, the men and women who wear yellow shirts on the carrier deck and execute the dangerous ballet of launching and retrieving aircraft from the Wasp. They say that, after taking off and landing several times almost every day since Aug. 12, they are seeing less damage to the deck than it sustains from some other aircraft that routinely fly from the Wasp and other LHD class ships.
The Navy and Marines have added a new coating to the deck where F-35Bs land, called Thermion. From all accounts, it’s a remarkable product composed of aluminum and ceramic bonded together by heat at application to form a very smooth and tough heat-resistant coating.
There is one part of the ship that is sustaining unanticipated — if not critical — damage, namely the edge of the bow. Nets to catch crew members who might lose their footing in rough seas or be blown down by a passing aircraft are being severely rattled by the enormous downwash from the F-35B’s jet engine as it passes low over the end of the ship. The wire netting is snapping and some of the structure that supports the nets is being bent. And lights just under the deck’s lip are being shattered.
Chief Steven Vlasich, who is responsible for maintaining the deck, took me up to check the damage. I saw a few snapped wires. It didn’t look too bad, but then Vlasich and his crew had been fixing everything they could. The chief and three other yellow shirts told me the Thermion appeared to be working well. But Vlasich said he’d like to keep much of the deck covered with its current aluminum product, which is much rougher than Thermion. He thinks it gives crew members better traction, especially when the deck is wet and covered in leaking hydraulic fluid and oil.
Joe Spitz, a systems engineer with Naval Sea Systems Command, told me they’ve got several solutions they’re considering for the nets. One would be pretty simple: drop them down as the jets take off.
He doesn’t agree with Vlasich about Thermion. He says it is safer than the older surface and grips better. Perhaps most important, you can clean oil and other fluid from it more effectively, Spitz says. The Wasp is reportedly going to have its entire deck coated in Thermion.
But these are secondary, if important issues. What really matters to those on the Wasp is that they are getting the F-35B into the air consistently and safely...."
...both JSF planes had glitches while we were out on the ship, though BF-1 began flying again soon after we left. The second plane appeared to have a “pretty significant problem,” a crew member told me. Its Integrated Power Package, a sort of super generator that powers many of the plane’s sophisticated electronics would not start. I’ve emailed the Joint Program Office for an update and will update this as soon as we hear from them.
One of the biggest concerns about the F-35B, which directs most of the engine’s power directly down to the ship’s deck as it lands, was that it would damage the ship’s deck so much at each landing that the Wasp and other ships — or the F-35B — would have to be redesigned to mitigate that problem. I spoke with several deck crew, the men and women who wear yellow shirts on the carrier deck and execute the dangerous ballet of launching and retrieving aircraft from the Wasp. They say that, after taking off and landing several times almost every day since Aug. 12, they are seeing less damage to the deck than it sustains from some other aircraft that routinely fly from the Wasp and other LHD class ships.
The Navy and Marines have added a new coating to the deck where F-35Bs land, called Thermion. From all accounts, it’s a remarkable product composed of aluminum and ceramic bonded together by heat at application to form a very smooth and tough heat-resistant coating.
There is one part of the ship that is sustaining unanticipated — if not critical — damage, namely the edge of the bow. Nets to catch crew members who might lose their footing in rough seas or be blown down by a passing aircraft are being severely rattled by the enormous downwash from the F-35B’s jet engine as it passes low over the end of the ship. The wire netting is snapping and some of the structure that supports the nets is being bent. And lights just under the deck’s lip are being shattered.
Chief Steven Vlasich, who is responsible for maintaining the deck, took me up to check the damage. I saw a few snapped wires. It didn’t look too bad, but then Vlasich and his crew had been fixing everything they could. The chief and three other yellow shirts told me the Thermion appeared to be working well. But Vlasich said he’d like to keep much of the deck covered with its current aluminum product, which is much rougher than Thermion. He thinks it gives crew members better traction, especially when the deck is wet and covered in leaking hydraulic fluid and oil.
Joe Spitz, a systems engineer with Naval Sea Systems Command, told me they’ve got several solutions they’re considering for the nets. One would be pretty simple: drop them down as the jets take off.
He doesn’t agree with Vlasich about Thermion. He says it is safer than the older surface and grips better. Perhaps most important, you can clean oil and other fluid from it more effectively, Spitz says. The Wasp is reportedly going to have its entire deck coated in Thermion.
But these are secondary, if important issues. What really matters to those on the Wasp is that they are getting the F-35B into the air consistently and safely...."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 29th Aug 2013 at 22:16. Reason: heif to Cheif
These are all good items, Spaz, but as others have said, it can take off and land like it should. Is that such great news? Let's see some stuff about how it's going going be our great new wonder jet that justifies all that money. Again, I'm not an anti, I'm just not seeing anything here that makes it better than any other modern bomber.
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RAF F-35B Interest Piqued USS Wasp DT-II Trials
I'm happy to post news as it comes to hand. I have no control over the news. I would have thought details about the DT-II F-35B trials aboard USS Wasp would interest any potential F-35B users. If you are not interested or bored then just put me on your ignore list. Does not bother me in the slightest. 
U.S. Marines see progress in F-35 testing despite challenges 29 Aug 2013 Andrea Shalal-Esa
U.S. Marines see progress in F-35 testing despite challenges | Reuters
U.S. Marines see progress in F-35 testing despite challenges 29 Aug 2013 Andrea Shalal-Esa
"...Wing Commander Nic Hindley, the UK liaison to Marine Corps headquarters, said Britain was keeping a close eye on the tests since it must decide by October on buying 14 more F-35 B-models.
He said testing results were encouraging, as was recent news that the Pentagon had lowered its estimate for the long-term cost of operating and maintaining the planes...."
He said testing results were encouraging, as was recent news that the Pentagon had lowered its estimate for the long-term cost of operating and maintaining the planes...."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 30th Aug 2013 at 01:00. Reason: Added an RAF CRAB STORY about... well.. you know NavAv stuff
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THERMION USE DETAILS + PHOTOS
F-35B DT 2 Update: A few hours on the USS Wasp 30 Aug 2013 Amy Butler
F-35B DT 2 Update: A few hours on the USS Wasp
BIG PIC: http://sitelife.aviationweek.com/ver...e3b5b.Full.jpg
"...Peter Wilson, a BAE test pilot, was able to test the F-35B landing at four headings, each 90-deg. apart. He says the testing validates the aircraft can conduct VLs at any heading on the ship.
The VLs were conducted on spots in the aft portion of the ship that have been treated with Thermion, a new heat resistant coating the includes ceramic and steel; it is a vast improvement over the current anti-skid coating used on the deck and might be applied to other F-35 ships in the future, says Joe Spitz, lead tester on deck for Naval Sea Systems Command.
During one of the tests, Wilson landed an F-35B with its nose off toward the port side of the deck and its engine and hot nozzle exhaust on the port side. During this test, the engine nozzle was just at the demarcation on the deck between the Thermion and baseline anti-skid coatings on the deck. The effects are obvious. The anti-skid coating is brown as a result of the intense heat, while the Thermion appears unaffected.
Spitz says that while the anti-skid coating typical on can handle F-35 operations, its service life could be compromised over time. So, the Navy is assessing whether it will outline decks – or at least portions to be used by the F-35B – with this Thermion material in the future. The performance tradeoff is cost; Thermion is more expensive, he says.
However, heat output is an issue also with the MV-22s landing on the decks of carriers and small-deck ships, so it is possible the Navy will take into account the operational use of these tiltrotor aircraft as it plots a way forward for the use of Thermion.
Below, the dark section on the right is the Thermion coating. You can see on the left where Wilson landed with the engine nozzle just over the divider between the Thermion and standard anti-skid -- the the latter a bit toasted...."
The VLs were conducted on spots in the aft portion of the ship that have been treated with Thermion, a new heat resistant coating the includes ceramic and steel; it is a vast improvement over the current anti-skid coating used on the deck and might be applied to other F-35 ships in the future, says Joe Spitz, lead tester on deck for Naval Sea Systems Command.
During one of the tests, Wilson landed an F-35B with its nose off toward the port side of the deck and its engine and hot nozzle exhaust on the port side. During this test, the engine nozzle was just at the demarcation on the deck between the Thermion and baseline anti-skid coatings on the deck. The effects are obvious. The anti-skid coating is brown as a result of the intense heat, while the Thermion appears unaffected.
Spitz says that while the anti-skid coating typical on can handle F-35 operations, its service life could be compromised over time. So, the Navy is assessing whether it will outline decks – or at least portions to be used by the F-35B – with this Thermion material in the future. The performance tradeoff is cost; Thermion is more expensive, he says.
However, heat output is an issue also with the MV-22s landing on the decks of carriers and small-deck ships, so it is possible the Navy will take into account the operational use of these tiltrotor aircraft as it plots a way forward for the use of Thermion.
Below, the dark section on the right is the Thermion coating. You can see on the left where Wilson landed with the engine nozzle just over the divider between the Thermion and standard anti-skid -- the the latter a bit toasted...."
BIG PIC: http://sitelife.aviationweek.com/ver...e3b5b.Full.jpg
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 30th Aug 2013 at 05:01.
Not at all, Spaz, I find most of the news interesting. All I'm wondering is, for example, whether a prototype managing to land 92 times is really news. Your posts that look at the issues - heat, the helmet and the like - are newsworthy indeed and I thank you for them.
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Is the Navy looking at alternatives for the F35C?
See this article - Boeing Targeting U.S. Navy For Super Hornet Upgrades 
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I'm sorry, but it's a ghastly machine. I mean, just LOOK at it.
I wonder how many people gaze fondly at fading pics of the X 32 and think, 'If only..."? I know I would.
I wonder how many people gaze fondly at fading pics of the X 32 and think, 'If only..."? I know I would.
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Then you must have beer googles on. The F35 might not be much of a looker compared to other jets but it is a damn sight better than the cod mouthed X32 ever was and that includes the redesigned version. It was an absolute hippocrocagrillapig of an aeroplane.
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Is the Navy looking at alternatives for the F35C?
See his article - Boeing Targeting U.S. Navy For Super Hornet Upgrades
See his article - Boeing Targeting U.S. Navy For Super Hornet Upgrades
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Sorry. Should have explained.
I wasn't referring to its looks, per se, rather to the number and range of aerodynamic aids it takes to make it perform its tricks.
The beast is so stuffed full of technology and control systems that I sincerely doubt whether there is a square centimetre of the planes surface that could take a hit from a single 7.62 mm round and not have the MFD's lighting up like a Christmas tree.
At least the '32 had the potential to be a robust aeroplane.
A technological wonder the F 35 undoubtedly is. It will be an airshow hit. Little Johnny will blink his eyes and gasp in delight. Young ladies will faint as the pilot alights.
As something to go fighting in? Rather you than me.
I wasn't referring to its looks, per se, rather to the number and range of aerodynamic aids it takes to make it perform its tricks.
The beast is so stuffed full of technology and control systems that I sincerely doubt whether there is a square centimetre of the planes surface that could take a hit from a single 7.62 mm round and not have the MFD's lighting up like a Christmas tree.
At least the '32 had the potential to be a robust aeroplane.
A technological wonder the F 35 undoubtedly is. It will be an airshow hit. Little Johnny will blink his eyes and gasp in delight. Young ladies will faint as the pilot alights.
As something to go fighting in? Rather you than me.
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