F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
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85% capability, I didn't see barrage jammer mentioned..it's time you jumped to 5th gen thinking CM
any high RF like barrage jamming will be offboard on UAV's and MALD-J
as we talked last time on this subject, the marines may need the pod till the ew is mature from block 3F or I speculate that it may be a coms jammer for CAS that may or may not be in a later block
there was also an interview that gave it another 15%
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/Mag...112fighter.pdf
Oh remember the Liberal parliamentarian Jensen who was using the APA rubbish slagging the f-35 and how Labour and the ADF are fools?
well the liberal defense guy Senator Johnston, has made a statement..slagging Labour for delaying the order
"Senator Johnston gave strong support to the beleaguered Joint Strike Fighter, which has suffered schedule and cost blowouts, and criticised the government for delaying its purchase decisions in relation to the plane. "It's a vital major project and a great feather in (former defence minister) Robert Hill's cap for having this strategic foresight more than 10 years ago," he said.
any high RF like barrage jamming will be offboard on UAV's and MALD-J
as we talked last time on this subject, the marines may need the pod till the ew is mature from block 3F or I speculate that it may be a coms jammer for CAS that may or may not be in a later block
there was also an interview that gave it another 15%
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/Mag...112fighter.pdf
O’Bryan certainly couldn’t go into the subject of the fighter’s EW/EA suite in any detail, or the way it might coordinate with specialized aircraft such as the E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System, RC-135 Rivet Joint, E-8 JSTARS, or EA-18G Growler jammer aircraft.
He did say, however, that F-35 requirements call for it to go into battle with “no support whatever” from these systems.
“I don’t know a pilot alive who wouldn’t want whatever support he can get,” O’Bryan acknowledged. “But the requirements that we were given to build the airplane didn’t have any support functions built in.
In other words, we had to find the target, ... penetrate the anti-access [defenses], ... ID the target, and ... destroy it by ourselves.
Asked about the Air Force’s plans,
O’Bryan answered with several rhetorical
questions: “Are they investing
in a big jammer fleet? Are they buying
[EA-18G] Growlers?” Then he said,
“There’s a capability here.”
O’Bryan went on to say that the electronic
warfare capability on the F-35A
“is as good as, or better than, [that of
the] fourth generation airplanes specifically
built for that purpose.” The
F-35’s “sensitivity” and processing
power—a great deal of it automated—
coupled with the sensor fusion of
internal and offboard systems, give the
pilot unprecedented situational awareness
as well as the ability to detect,
locate, and target specific systems that
need to be disrupted.
When it comes to electronic combat,
the F-35A will make possible a new
operational concept, O’Bryan said.
The goal is not to simply suppress
enemy air defenses. The goal will be
to destroy them.
He did say, however, that F-35 requirements call for it to go into battle with “no support whatever” from these systems.
“I don’t know a pilot alive who wouldn’t want whatever support he can get,” O’Bryan acknowledged. “But the requirements that we were given to build the airplane didn’t have any support functions built in.
In other words, we had to find the target, ... penetrate the anti-access [defenses], ... ID the target, and ... destroy it by ourselves.
Asked about the Air Force’s plans,
O’Bryan answered with several rhetorical
questions: “Are they investing
in a big jammer fleet? Are they buying
[EA-18G] Growlers?” Then he said,
“There’s a capability here.”
O’Bryan went on to say that the electronic
warfare capability on the F-35A
“is as good as, or better than, [that of
the] fourth generation airplanes specifically
built for that purpose.” The
F-35’s “sensitivity” and processing
power—a great deal of it automated—
coupled with the sensor fusion of
internal and offboard systems, give the
pilot unprecedented situational awareness
as well as the ability to detect,
locate, and target specific systems that
need to be disrupted.
When it comes to electronic combat,
the F-35A will make possible a new
operational concept, O’Bryan said.
The goal is not to simply suppress
enemy air defenses. The goal will be
to destroy them.
Oh remember the Liberal parliamentarian Jensen who was using the APA rubbish slagging the f-35 and how Labour and the ADF are fools?
well the liberal defense guy Senator Johnston, has made a statement..slagging Labour for delaying the order
"Senator Johnston gave strong support to the beleaguered Joint Strike Fighter, which has suffered schedule and cost blowouts, and criticised the government for delaying its purchase decisions in relation to the plane. "It's a vital major project and a great feather in (former defence minister) Robert Hill's cap for having this strategic foresight more than 10 years ago," he said.
Last edited by JSFfan; 30th Apr 2013 at 01:41.
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That would be Lockheed Martin Vice President Stephen O'Bryan that you are quoting then JSFFan who says, and I confesss that I paraphase here, "JSF is the best thing since sliced bread".
Neutral? Unbiased? O'Rly?
Neutral? Unbiased? O'Rly?
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yeah...never trust a prime..they all lie..listen but verify, evaluate and verify, retest and verify again
what about Gen. James Amos, the Marine Corps Commandant? is he a LM stooge too?
what about the other dozen nations and forces, are their guys on the take?
the only one you can trust is the maker of your favourite plane
what about Gen. James Amos, the Marine Corps Commandant? is he a LM stooge too?
what about the other dozen nations and forces, are their guys on the take?
the only one you can trust is the maker of your favourite plane
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JSFFan With all your undoubted knowledge of the subject could you please lay out in a cogent manner the differences between the EW suites that are presently installed on such aircraft as the Rafale and the proposed suite of tools that will be when all goes to plan on the F35 after the Block 3 updates.
It would be interesting to see how much more advanced the F35 will be, according to you, than present 4.5 generation aircraft.
I seem to remember seeing somewhere that in principle there is no reason that the F35 suites could not be retrofitted on a "legacy" air frame, which I suppose would level the playing field on day two of a war when there is good layered air defense. Do you agree?
It would be interesting to see how much more advanced the F35 will be, according to you, than present 4.5 generation aircraft.
I seem to remember seeing somewhere that in principle there is no reason that the F35 suites could not be retrofitted on a "legacy" air frame, which I suppose would level the playing field on day two of a war when there is good layered air defense. Do you agree?
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I take it as it is written and seeing most of it is classified, why would I know?
perhaps you can enlighten me?
nar sorry, google reckons it's a coms, sniffer and jammer pod for their harriers and early block 2b
perhaps you can enlighten me?
LO said "Moreover, developing a stealth-compatible escort-jammer pod won't be cheap, but I suppose the Marines will, as usual, thcream and thcream and thcream until the Navy is told to fund it."
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JSFfan are you saying that the USMC to get their first F35B squadrons up to IOC standard are developing a EW pod, hopefully to be internally carried, as the standard F35 systems that should be better than it will not be ready till Block 3. One does have to think is this good value for money, or am I missing a trick here?
Then, if you don't know, JSFfan, why this?
Oh, and I didn't mention barrage either.
Originally Posted by JSFfan
I didn't see barrage jammer mentioned..it's time you jumped to 5th gen thinking CM
Oh, and I didn't mention barrage either.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 30th Apr 2013 at 09:20.
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Intrepid Tiger II Follow On for USMC F-35Bs?
Perhaps an upgraded 'Intrepid Tiger II' will be carried by USMC F-35Bs?
Yuma hosts first flight for new electronic warfare system09 April 2012
Marine Corps Air Station Yuma Story by Lance Cpl. Sean Dennison
DVIDS - News - Yuma hosts first flight for new electronic warfare system
“Intrepid Tiger II, a government-built system whose ground work began in 2008, is meant to expand the circumference of electronic warfare capabilities. The pod will provide AV-8B Harriers with an electronic attack capability, expanding their utility on the modern battlefield and paving the way for the Marine Air-Ground Task Force electronic warfare concept that will replace the Prowlers....
...The new pod’s strength lies in its versatility, being controlled by either airborne pilots or ground radio operators. First Radio Battalion, based in Camp Pendleton, Calif., is the first ground-based unit trained to use Intrepid Tiger II.... ...Radio operators can assume control of the pod depending on ground activity if the situation does not cover pilots’ mission preplanning. “This is our first foray into a network centric, system of systems with electronic war-fare capabilities,” said Maj. William Maples, the Headquarters Marine Corps Harrier weapons system requirement officer and a native of Murfreesboro, Tenn. “We’re excited to see the effect it will have to unify combatant commanders in Operation Enduring Freedom.”... ...As Harriers are used primarily for providing close-air support to ground troops, the Harrier community already has an established rap-port with their land-based brethren....
...Harriers also already deploy with Marine Expeditionary Units, making them ideal for the first platform to use the pod. Plans are in the works to bestow Intrepid Tiger II on other platforms, including F/A-18 Hornets, rotary-wing aircraft & unmanned aerial vehicles. The variety of platforms is important, as the Prowlers, Hornets & Harriers slowly make way for the Joint Strike Fighter program....
...“The most important part of this asset is it’s organic to the Corps,” added 1st Lt. David Miller, a 1st Radio Battalion and a native of Chilliocothe, Ohio, noting that ground troops now have a Corps-exclusive electronic warfare capability....”
Yuma hosts first flight for new electronic warfare system09 April 2012
Marine Corps Air Station Yuma Story by Lance Cpl. Sean Dennison
DVIDS - News - Yuma hosts first flight for new electronic warfare system
“Intrepid Tiger II, a government-built system whose ground work began in 2008, is meant to expand the circumference of electronic warfare capabilities. The pod will provide AV-8B Harriers with an electronic attack capability, expanding their utility on the modern battlefield and paving the way for the Marine Air-Ground Task Force electronic warfare concept that will replace the Prowlers....
...The new pod’s strength lies in its versatility, being controlled by either airborne pilots or ground radio operators. First Radio Battalion, based in Camp Pendleton, Calif., is the first ground-based unit trained to use Intrepid Tiger II.... ...Radio operators can assume control of the pod depending on ground activity if the situation does not cover pilots’ mission preplanning. “This is our first foray into a network centric, system of systems with electronic war-fare capabilities,” said Maj. William Maples, the Headquarters Marine Corps Harrier weapons system requirement officer and a native of Murfreesboro, Tenn. “We’re excited to see the effect it will have to unify combatant commanders in Operation Enduring Freedom.”... ...As Harriers are used primarily for providing close-air support to ground troops, the Harrier community already has an established rap-port with their land-based brethren....
...Harriers also already deploy with Marine Expeditionary Units, making them ideal for the first platform to use the pod. Plans are in the works to bestow Intrepid Tiger II on other platforms, including F/A-18 Hornets, rotary-wing aircraft & unmanned aerial vehicles. The variety of platforms is important, as the Prowlers, Hornets & Harriers slowly make way for the Joint Strike Fighter program....
...“The most important part of this asset is it’s organic to the Corps,” added 1st Lt. David Miller, a 1st Radio Battalion and a native of Chilliocothe, Ohio, noting that ground troops now have a Corps-exclusive electronic warfare capability....”
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 30th Apr 2013 at 19:14. Reason: format - what else - & again
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Originally Posted by JSFfan
..what about the other dozen nations and forces, are their guys on the take?...
How they "convinced" European Air Forces and others to buy the more or less useless F-104 by the bucketload (some 900! to the Germans) is legendary!
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Spaz, Possibly JSFfan is thinking of Intrepid Tiger II, to your knowledge can it fit internally in an F35B and if so what weapon station does it take over?
Thinking that the internal load carrying capacity of the B is less than the others and mounting it on the wing would not be too stealthy.
Also if JSFfan is talking about the Tiger II does this mean that the USMC Block 2b planes are going to have USMC specific software, to enable the pilot to use the Tiger II? Also how is it going to communicate with the main systems on the plane? I might of missed a Death by Powerpoint but have not seen one that shows a hard point wired for EW pods, anyone able to enlighten us?
Thinking that the internal load carrying capacity of the B is less than the others and mounting it on the wing would not be too stealthy.
Also if JSFfan is talking about the Tiger II does this mean that the USMC Block 2b planes are going to have USMC specific software, to enable the pilot to use the Tiger II? Also how is it going to communicate with the main systems on the plane? I might of missed a Death by Powerpoint but have not seen one that shows a hard point wired for EW pods, anyone able to enlighten us?
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'PhilipG', My guess will be that 'Intrepid Tiger III' will be fitted inside a stealthy TERMA pod similar to the stealthy gunpod (made by TERMA) mentioned earlier on this thread? How the pod will be wired (on F-35B centreline station) is beyond my guesstimation ability. Perhaps the Israeli F-35i method will be used along with other common interface gubbins. That is all I could guess. Here is a pic of the present 'Intrepid Tiger II' in 2012:
http://d1.static.dvidshub.net/media/...50x299_q75.jpg
CAPTION: "Personnel assemble the Intrepid Tiger II electronic warfare pod at MCAS Yuma, March 26 [2012]."
http://d1.static.dvidshub.net/media/...50x299_q75.jpg
CAPTION: "Personnel assemble the Intrepid Tiger II electronic warfare pod at MCAS Yuma, March 26 [2012]."
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other than spaz, no one mentioned the name but it is the Tiger II. There is a little bit on google about it
ALQ-231 Intrepid Tiger Pod | NAVAIR - U.S. Navy Naval Air Systems Command - Navy and Marine Corps Aviation Research, Development, Acquisition, Test and Evaluation
we'll see if the UK buys it for $600k or if the capability is in their IOC block
ALQ-231 Intrepid Tiger Pod | NAVAIR - U.S. Navy Naval Air Systems Command - Navy and Marine Corps Aviation Research, Development, Acquisition, Test and Evaluation
we'll see if the UK buys it for $600k or if the capability is in their IOC block
Last edited by JSFfan; 30th Apr 2013 at 10:21.
Intrepid Tiger is a neat capability, but should not be oversold as a full-bore "Prowler in a can" kind of system.
Airborne Electronic Attack Efforts Gain Momentum
It's a comms intercept/jammer with a strictly tactical role - jamming IED controllers and such things. Takes a lot more power to deal with air defenses. Also, I can't think of anything less stealthy than a gadget that transmits on command from the ground. Now that's like a Ninja carrying a cellphone with the ringtone set to MAX.
Airborne Electronic Attack Efforts Gain Momentum
It's a comms intercept/jammer with a strictly tactical role - jamming IED controllers and such things. Takes a lot more power to deal with air defenses. Also, I can't think of anything less stealthy than a gadget that transmits on command from the ground. Now that's like a Ninja carrying a cellphone with the ringtone set to MAX.
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I guess you missed my answer to you
Quote:
LO said "Moreover, developing a stealth-compatible escort-jammer pod won't be cheap, but I suppose the Marines will, as usual, thcream and thcream and thcream until the Navy is told to fund it."
nar sorry, google reckons it's a coms, sniffer and jammer pod for their harriers and early block 2b
LO said "Moreover, developing a stealth-compatible escort-jammer pod won't be cheap, but I suppose the Marines will, as usual, thcream and thcream and thcream until the Navy is told to fund it."
nar sorry, google reckons it's a coms, sniffer and jammer pod for their harriers and early block 2b
Last edited by JSFfan; 30th Apr 2013 at 14:48.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
'PhilipG', My guess will be that 'Intrepid Tiger III' will be fitted inside a stealthy TERMA pod similar to the stealthy gunpod (made by TERMA).........) is beyond my guesstimation ability.
Farnborough International Airshow 2012 – On display at the Terma stand C26 in Hall 2 is the F-35 Multi Mission Pod built using the very latest composite technology for extra strength and light weight. The pod is designed for versions of the F-35 with requirements for external stores.
In 2004, Terma won the contract to design, develop, qualify, and produce F-35 Gun Pods for the F-35B and F-35C in partnership with General Dynamics Armament and Technical Products, a business unit of General Dynamics.
The F-35 Pod is a full monocoque composite structure in carbon fiber. It passed engineering test and qualification and has flown on the F-35 in February 2012 and is currently in the LRIP production phase.
The F-35 Pod Enclosure will provide real estate on the F-35, which can be used to expand the F-35 Special Mission functionality, by allowing the F-35 to fly Next Generation EW and ISR systems, such as Jammers and EO sensors.........
Last edited by ORAC; 30th Apr 2013 at 15:53.
Intrepid Tiger is a neat capability, but should not be oversold as a full-bore "Prowler in a can" kind of system.
GR - The pod's cheap enough, maybe under a megabuck in quantity. Designing the stuff to fit inside it (and not blow the signature through the roof or shake itself to bits on VL) probably starts at a few hundred mill. Making sure that it doesn't get into a snit with any of the other umpteen million lines of code in the air and ground system is probably ten digits.
It would be quite valid to add a few extra costs to the design of any aircraft that makes deficits in the original design. Be that a gun pod because the airframe lacks a gun, a jamming pod because someone realises it needs more active EW, exteranl tanks because it lacks the range for the ops we require or targeting pods, wide spectrum EO or whatever.
We've been here with almost every previous platform; bolt-on goodies to do the job. But, of course you can't easily do bolt-on goodies to a stealth platform. If you want an example, look at the EO window under JSF's chin and the radome and then discuss the requirement for their narrow band apatures and what that means in operations terms.
We've been here with almost every previous platform; bolt-on goodies to do the job. But, of course you can't easily do bolt-on goodies to a stealth platform. If you want an example, look at the EO window under JSF's chin and the radome and then discuss the requirement for their narrow band apatures and what that means in operations terms.
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The F-35 Pod is a full monocoque composite structure in carbon fiber. It passed engineering test and qualification
Forget all the operational flim, flam CM.
This program, from what we all have available, fell out of cost control a long, long time ago.