Troops returning from Helmand pay for own flights
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Troops returning from Helmand pay for own flights
Troops returning from Helmand pay for own flights
Interesting article;
Troops returning from Helmand pay for own flights - Telegraph
Interesting article;
Troops returning from Helmand pay for own flights - Telegraph
Yup, done that myself from an Emirati country (my choice as didn't want to wait).....and got a major bollocking for it too. 
However a few nice beers seemed to placate the cost! and seeing the kids sooner than later was worth it.
However a few nice beers seemed to placate the cost! and seeing the kids sooner than later was worth it.
Last edited by 12 twists per inch; 17th Aug 2010 at 07:08.
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None of you should be paying to travel.
Anyway - R&R will go soon anyway so no point getting upset over a few delayed flights. The impact to ops, rather than anything else, is the criminal neglect here.
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Working across the airfield and inter sqn rivalry aside I can honestly say that I feel sorry for the tri motor guys. Only able to operate with what the government provides them with, must be terrible to be universally hated by the green and dark blue forces when they just want to provide a service for hard working boys and girls to be able to see their loved ones.
All that aside, 99 sqn are the weapon of choice when I comes to getting there and back.
All that aside, 99 sqn are the weapon of choice when I comes to getting there and back.
When I arrived in HERRICK (albeit after a 4 day 3 Tristar marathon), on my RSOI I was told that there had been a minor change in policy, and that your 14 day R&R allocation started from the moment you landed at Brize, and not when you left KAF. As such delays in Cyprus shouldnt count towards your R&R.
If I were to sound very harsh, I'd say that I have no sympathy with those troops buying flights home and then complaining about it. Its made clear to all that R&R is a privilege and not a right, and that the Tri* fleet is knackered. Everyone knows you'll be screwed around getting to/from theatre, but thats life in theatre for you. We're not the only country to have these problems, my US colleagues have given me tales of getting back from Bagram which makes the Tri* fleet look like sheer perfection by comparison.
Ultimately the RAF will get you home and you will get leave. If you choose to short circuit the process, then thats your decision, but don't got whinging to the bloody media because of it. It won't change anything, and just does more damage and morale sapping to the 216 Guys who are working their socks off to keep us getting to/from theatre (and I say this as a matelot).
If I were to sound very harsh, I'd say that I have no sympathy with those troops buying flights home and then complaining about it. Its made clear to all that R&R is a privilege and not a right, and that the Tri* fleet is knackered. Everyone knows you'll be screwed around getting to/from theatre, but thats life in theatre for you. We're not the only country to have these problems, my US colleagues have given me tales of getting back from Bagram which makes the Tri* fleet look like sheer perfection by comparison.
Ultimately the RAF will get you home and you will get leave. If you choose to short circuit the process, then thats your decision, but don't got whinging to the bloody media because of it. It won't change anything, and just does more damage and morale sapping to the 216 Guys who are working their socks off to keep us getting to/from theatre (and I say this as a matelot).
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Ultimately the RAF will get you home and you will get leave. If you choose to short circuit the process, then thats your decision, but don't got whinging to the bloody media because of it. It won't change anything, and just does more damage and morale sapping to the 216 Guys who are working their socks off
Last edited by fincastle84; 19th Aug 2010 at 12:32. Reason: deletion of content
Fincastle, in my normal day job I am one of those 85,000 'useless' civil servants. If you had the faintest idea what the MOD CS does, rather than believing the daily mail, then you probably wouldnt say that. Contrary to MAILINT, the MOD CS is not solely responsible for the years of delay to getting a new airbridge in. Nor do a bunch of anonymous 'Sir humphries' sit there, cackling as they work out that the best way to screw the troops on the front line is to scrap the Tri* replacement. Try looking to the planning rounds (run by the military) and the desire to field new fighters. Blame the chancellor (then Mr G Brown) and accept that delays happen because the air force chose to prioritise their purchases towards fast jets, not because they are told by the MOD CS what they were allowed to buy.
Go and do some very basic research on the MOD and you'll find quickly that the vast majority of the CS are the labourers, odd job handymen, admin support staff, security guards and so on who exist to support the front line. You'd also find that at anyone time a couple of hundred CS are in Afghanistan working with the forces, and being subjected to the same airbridge problems as everyone else (been there, done that too).
Stop blaming an entire organisation of people who are far more committed than you seem to think for the failings of the politicans.
If I sound grumpy and like I've bitten, its because nothing annoys me more than watching ill informed spectators taking cheap shots at an organisation whose members are made out in the media to be pure scum and looked on with the same contempt held for child molestors, simply because they joined the MOD civil service. Sure there are bad eggs out there, but 99% of people are fine and care passionately about Defence and helping the armed forces do their job. People here would rightly go ballistic if I called all 42,000 members of the airforce utterly useless for the same reason.
(Rant over).
Go and do some very basic research on the MOD and you'll find quickly that the vast majority of the CS are the labourers, odd job handymen, admin support staff, security guards and so on who exist to support the front line. You'd also find that at anyone time a couple of hundred CS are in Afghanistan working with the forces, and being subjected to the same airbridge problems as everyone else (been there, done that too).
Stop blaming an entire organisation of people who are far more committed than you seem to think for the failings of the politicans.
If I sound grumpy and like I've bitten, its because nothing annoys me more than watching ill informed spectators taking cheap shots at an organisation whose members are made out in the media to be pure scum and looked on with the same contempt held for child molestors, simply because they joined the MOD civil service. Sure there are bad eggs out there, but 99% of people are fine and care passionately about Defence and helping the armed forces do their job. People here would rightly go ballistic if I called all 42,000 members of the airforce utterly useless for the same reason.
(Rant over).
Last edited by Jimlad1; 16th Aug 2010 at 06:16.
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Deliverance
Your proposed 4 month tours would increase the transport burden by 50%, rather than reduce it.
Now - have you ever spent six months in a hostile environment, away from your family, local pub and other home comforts? I somehow doubt it. Fourteen days is little enough to attend to all the jobs around the house, personal admin and other accumulated trivia, let alone re-establishing contact with your family, most of would have young children.
Your idea of four months with no R&R is simply callous.
Your proposed 4 month tours would increase the transport burden by 50%, rather than reduce it.
Now - have you ever spent six months in a hostile environment, away from your family, local pub and other home comforts? I somehow doubt it. Fourteen days is little enough to attend to all the jobs around the house, personal admin and other accumulated trivia, let alone re-establishing contact with your family, most of would have young children.
Your idea of four months with no R&R is simply callous.
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Your idea of four months with no R&R is simply callous.
I would happily do six months without R+R again as the time at home only serves to upset spouse, children and relatives.
The Tristar is knackered and I take my hat off to the boys and girls of 216 Sqn who provide a fantastic service with an aircraft that was never designed to fly into operational environments.
Thats why we've bought into FSTA and A400M and why we need to ensure they survive SDSR - global projection, enforcment and resupply.
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Neptunus,
Not sure on your math there mate.
Two six month tours with R and R equates to moving a pax to and from theatre 4 times in a 12 month period.
Three 4 month tours in 12 months with no R and R equates to same pax only requiring to be moved to and from theatre 3 times in the same period.
Surely this is a reduction by 25%!!! Seems logical to me.
HEDP
Not sure on your math there mate.
Two six month tours with R and R equates to moving a pax to and from theatre 4 times in a 12 month period.
Three 4 month tours in 12 months with no R and R equates to same pax only requiring to be moved to and from theatre 3 times in the same period.
Surely this is a reduction by 25%!!! Seems logical to me.
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Tour lengths
Interesting reading about tour lengths, 6 months /4 months etc with a break in the middle !, remember not so long back when I did my bit at Khormaksar & other hotspots up country etc (remember Radfan) tours were 2 year unnacompanied for singlies, I did over 2 years in the warm with a fortnights break at the halfway point & a lot of married men went nearly full tour due to lack of accomodation for families, so a 4 month or a 6 month tour doesn't seem that bad, am sure this will bring comments & I don't wish to do down the work our troops are now doing but that was the way it was when we had a proper Air Force. PH.
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4 Month tours? No. Wouldn't work for the Army. I'm not knocking the RAF - I am fully aware of some of the guys/girls in KAF/BSN working 18+ hour days for 4 months at a time, but there would be problems for the Army doing that.
Each time an AO is handed over, a massive amount of information/intelligence is lost, and has to be regained by numerous familiarisation patrols, taking up time/effort of the new troops in. 4 Month tours would simply exaggerate the problem. The Afghans already get tired of having their UK partners switching twice a year - where is the incentive for them to build relationships if each year they will have 3 different units working for them.
I believe that longer tours are coming; indeed in some of the larger HQ's 9-12 month tours are the norm.
Each time an AO is handed over, a massive amount of information/intelligence is lost, and has to be regained by numerous familiarisation patrols, taking up time/effort of the new troops in. 4 Month tours would simply exaggerate the problem. The Afghans already get tired of having their UK partners switching twice a year - where is the incentive for them to build relationships if each year they will have 3 different units working for them.
I believe that longer tours are coming; indeed in some of the larger HQ's 9-12 month tours are the norm.
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Neptunus,
R&R is a (max) 14-day break given to troops on a 6 month tour if it is operationally viable. I managed 9 days on my last HERRICK, which included 2 days of travelling.
You are think of POL (Post-Operational Leave) - calculated at 1 day of leave per 9 days spent in theatre, to be taken upon EOT.
If troops go on longer tours, the R&R increases - 9 months works out as (IIRC) one 14-day break & 1 7-day break, with 12 months being 2 x 14 day packages.
T
R&R is a (max) 14-day break given to troops on a 6 month tour if it is operationally viable. I managed 9 days on my last HERRICK, which included 2 days of travelling.
You are think of POL (Post-Operational Leave) - calculated at 1 day of leave per 9 days spent in theatre, to be taken upon EOT.
If troops go on longer tours, the R&R increases - 9 months works out as (IIRC) one 14-day break & 1 7-day break, with 12 months being 2 x 14 day packages.
T
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Jimlad1
I think you'll find that the subtle change in wording should read "the moment you are PLANNED to land at BZZ" Which is effectively no change in policy at all, it just sounds better coming from a politicians lying lips. This is what I was told on my last ROI in April.
Neptunus Rex
R&R is 'mid' tour leave, POTL is Post Operational Tour Leave
When I arrived in HERRICK (albeit after a 4 day 3 Tristar marathon), on my RSOI I was told that there had been a minor change in policy, and that your 14 day R&R allocation started from the moment you landed at Brize, and not when you left KAF. As such delays in Cyprus shouldnt count towards your R&R.
Neptunus Rex
R&R is 'mid' tour leave, POTL is Post Operational Tour Leave
TBT - thanks for that - thought it was too good to be true. Just have to hope return visit is better than outward bound - take off, return to Brize with fault, overnight stop in gateway as standby plane breaks down, next day faulty plane fixed, takes off, breaks down in Cyprus, finally got there the following day.
On the plus side, the crew won a lot of plaudits for volunteering to stand up in front of 200 pax and tell us what was going on and why we were stopping / returning. Lots of people who could have been seriously grumpy instead totally on RAF side and understood why we were delayed.
On the plus side, the crew won a lot of plaudits for volunteering to stand up in front of 200 pax and tell us what was going on and why we were stopping / returning. Lots of people who could have been seriously grumpy instead totally on RAF side and understood why we were delayed.
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Re: The MOD...
Its interesting that the figure of 85,000 civil servants currently in the MOD lines up very well with the growth formula set out by Cecil Parkinson in his law.
In the heady days of the VC10/Britannia fleets and the Changi shuttle we operated to a schedule just like any other airline. Though there were grumbles at the occasional 24 hour delay, nobody ever had to buy a commercial ticket for a mid-tour R & R flight. In fact one could be lifted from the front line in Borneo/Radfan to a bed in any one of a dozen dedicated military hospitals staffed entirely by military medics in less than a day. The MOD was then split into the Admiralty, the War Office and the Air Ministry of course, so the massive savings achieved by combining all three into one must have enormously improved the conditions of service for our military personnel.
In the heady days of the VC10/Britannia fleets and the Changi shuttle we operated to a schedule just like any other airline. Though there were grumbles at the occasional 24 hour delay, nobody ever had to buy a commercial ticket for a mid-tour R & R flight. In fact one could be lifted from the front line in Borneo/Radfan to a bed in any one of a dozen dedicated military hospitals staffed entirely by military medics in less than a day. The MOD was then split into the Admiralty, the War Office and the Air Ministry of course, so the massive savings achieved by combining all three into one must have enormously improved the conditions of service for our military personnel.
Last edited by Blacksheep; 16th Aug 2010 at 10:02.