Changes to Criteria for Campaign Medals

[Jimlad1]

Personally I don't think we're getting like the US - their 'medals' are simply a means of wearing their CV on their chest. These are just means of telling what someone has done over their career. They have 'medals' too.

As for why it matters - personally (speaking as someone with both the TELIC and HERRICK medals), I didn't join for it, but I like the fact that the State has chosen to recognise the fact that I've been somewhere to work in an unpleasant, difficult and hostile environment and sacrifice a lot to be there. Its a small way of acknowledging that a lot of us have done something that relatively few in society are able to do.

I don't think we've got medal overkill - the only ones out there are TELIC / HERRICK and a couple of one offs for things early last decade like Sierra Leone. Denying someone the right to show with pride their acheivements seams hugely churlish to me.

[Hubstrasse]

Back to the point

Some valid points for and agin, However, For a drop of focus I have just watched the RNZAF 757 bringing the body of Lt Tim O'donnell make its approach to Ohakea for his final journey to his family. As NZ's first combat death for several years it has created a bit of a national stir. The debate about campaign medals should not, in my opinion, be allowed to degenerate into a disrespectful slagging match. And yes, I am proud of mine (got some denied others).

[Bunker Mentality]

Flaps62

It's not up to me to justify the status quo, but for you to present a reasonable argument for change.

And why, pray, is it not fair to use the 39-45 Star as a comparator? It's a Campaign Medal, given for service in a particular Theatre for a specified period of time - for 'doing what you're paid for'.

[davejb]

Dammit, my typing just disappeared..
If you are in danger of being bombed or shot at for some minimum period (say 24 hrs - feel free to argue) then get the medal. Shoudl a Reaper pilot get it for flying from Nevada? Hell no, and if bombing the bad guys stresses you out then you are in the wrong job....you genuinely have my sympathy, I'm sure that many people join the armed forces thinking they are snake eaters only to discover that they think too much about their jobs to be comfortable with what they do, but you are in the wrong job and need to change it. If I were a squaddie who'd been shot at for the past few months I'd be kinda pissed at the idea of guys x thousand miles away getting it under some sort of 'stress' heading.

Campaign medals haven't been that easy to collect in the past for HMF, personally I think it devalues a campaign medal to start all this 'I bombed a guy from 6000miles away and feel really upset about it' crap, so whilst I am absolutely sure I've just turned several PPruners incandescent ... I strongly disagree with you.
(Discuss)

Dave

[Daf Hucker]

Flap/Seldom

Nobody requires you to claim for the medals for which you qualify. If you don't feel that you have earned the right to wear them that is your, personal, decision. However, the MOD believes that you have qualified. Don't berate the individuals that are happy to accept the MODs definition.

Campaign medals are just that, recognition that an individual was involved in a campaing in some manner. All the "spam" medals issued after WWII were campaign medals of some form. Not all the guys wearing the Burma Star were fighting in the jungle with the Chindits, does that make their contribution to the campaign any less worthwhile? The vast majority of the gallantry medals will be won, quite rightly, by the guys at the "teeth" end of deployed forces. These medals are the ones that are looked on with respect, campaign medals are just longer lasting T-shirts, nonetheless, I like the T-shirt thank you.

However we try and define the qualification for a particular campaign medal there will be winners and losers. Campaign medals are an established part of UK military tradition and have been used since the Crimea I believe (standing by to be corrected) Just because you guys don't think that individauls should get them unless they've been shot at (how close does the bullet have to get), doesn't make it right.

Daf

[Pontius Navigator]

daveJB, you make a good point (I think, if you didn't you should).

If you are in danger of being bombed or shot at for some minimum period (say 24 hrs - feel free to argue) then get the medal

The 30 day rule may be OK for someone whose main risks came from disembarking from the aircraft and flying out tourex 6 months later. What of the squaddie, of any Service, who is in the thick of it with 7.62s coming close and personal who is casevaced after 24 hours or so? He was certainly at risk, he was certainly there, but under the 30 days rule . . .

[VinRouge]

I believe they still get the medal. Op allowance is paid outside the SOL for example for those VSI and SI at Birmingham selly oak for example.

[sargs]

davejb:

only to discover that they think too much about their jobs to be comfortable with what they do, but you are in the wrong job and need to change it.

'I bombed a guy from 6000miles away and feel really upset about it' crap

These quotes don't make me 'incandescent with rage', more sad really. I don't see anywhere in this thread (or elsewhere) where Reaper operators have made statements like these. The case that some UAV operators are making is that they are intimately involved with a campaign, delivering effect on a daily basis, throughout a 3 year tour - thus they feel that award of a campaign medal, reflecting their part in a campaign, is not unreasonable. They wouldn't get the 'Afghanistan' bar, so it's immediately apparent that they haven't actually been there.

Dave, you are of course entitled to your opinion. However, you retired some years ago without any experience whatsoever of operating UAVs. Perhaps you should review your own medal collection from your time in, ask yourself honestly if you earnt every single one, and then you can continue your retirement safe in the knowledge that you'd

be kinda pissed at the idea

of somebody being recognised for waging warfare of a kind which you, frankly, have no understanding.

[Dengue_Dude]

I just KNEW my life was in danger when eating a Combat Kebab at Chris's.

Didn't get a bloody medal for that bit.

But I did get a medal for shopping in combat! Don't you just love that gaudy 'Freedom of Kuwait' medal - I'd rather have had a discount on a few thousand gallons of diesel!

I know . . . ungrateful bastard.

The system's never been fair, but does anyone really CARE about medals, unless they MEAN something. Campaign medals just mean you were unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong times and for enough of them.

[davejb]

I didn't say the UAV guys said that, I was responding to those in this thread who were suggesting such mental pain was sufficient grounds for a campaign medal award. I do (however) stand by the statement that if being a UAV operator leads to serious angst, then you should stop doing it...

Yes thanks, I did earn my limited collection of medals, which still sit in the drawer I put them into after my last appearance on a parade ground - I was neither surprised nor offended not to get any for the odd occasion that I supported other folk in the 90's as they were doing the fighty stuff while I was just, usually, moderately uncomfortable well back from anywhere dodgy.

Campaign medals are just 'I was there' bling, and a pretty minor reward for those involved in the nasty stuff... if you want to reward a UAV op for their efforts then there's a wide range of options that can be used, from simple thankyou memos to commendations and improved numbers from the 1st RO.

[Tankertrashnav]

Just for info, Dude, if you're talking about the GW1 Kuwait medal then they currently sell for around a fiver (bought a batch of unissued ones a while back and recently got £4.99 for one on ebay!)

So the diesel discount would certainly have been a better deal!