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Aussie MRH-90

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Old 10th Aug 2012, 07:32
  #321 (permalink)  
 
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Merlin is 3.5m longer (unfolded), 1m higher and has a max weight 3600kg heavier. I wonder if it would have cost less in time and money to modify our little ships (if physically possible) and buy a proven off the shelf design that can do both jobs. Moot point now.
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Old 10th Aug 2012, 08:51
  #322 (permalink)  
 
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Although a bit dated (2007), the analysis at this link raises some following pertinent questions:

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2007-03.htm


  • What is the MRH90’s embarked concept of operations?
  • What classes of ship is the MRH90 formally cleared to operate to and be embarked in?
  • Are powered blade folding/spreading, floatation equipment and a securing and traversing system intended to be fitted to the MRH90 for its embarked service?
  • Is it intended that the MRH90 be modified to operate with the RAST systems fitted to our FFG’s, Anzacs and USN air capable ships?
  • Another question; compatibility with the restraint system intended for the AWDs?
Perhaps somebody can offer enlightenment.

Last edited by Bushranger 71; 10th Aug 2012 at 08:52.
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Old 10th Aug 2012, 11:24
  #323 (permalink)  
 
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MRH90

  • What is the MRH90’s embarked concept of operations? For the RAN - Maritime Support ,pax tfrs, VERTREP, etc. For Army Avn - Amphib Troop Lift
  • What classes of ship is the MRH90 formally cleared to operate to and be embarked in? Embarked ops in LHD and LSD(A), Operate to all decks sufficiently big and strong enough once SHOL development complete.
  • Are powered blade folding/spreading (no, not required), floatation equipment (yes and already fitted) and a securing and traversing system (not required for ships it will embarking) intended to be fitted to the MRH90 for its embarked service?
  • Is it intended that the MRH90 be modified to operate with the RAST systems fitted to our FFG’s, Anzacs and USN air capable ships?No as not intended to embark in those platforms, if it was to embark in these classes appropriately hanlding equipment (Douglas MANTIS) would also be embarked or the aircraft would remain on deck
  • Another question; compatibility with the restraint system intended for the AWDs? See above
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Old 10th Aug 2012, 15:27
  #324 (permalink)  
 
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Just a point to consider:

IF NRH 90 wasn't built with RAST in mind initially, you are looking at a non-trivial cost to backfit, since you are dealing in airframe structures in the heart of the aircraft.

I've operated with and without RAST, and am of the opinion that it is a luxury, not a necessity.
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Old 10th Aug 2012, 22:42
  #325 (permalink)  
 
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MRH90 quick reaction capability

On-line availability of the MRH90 might realistically not be any better than 50 percent. If 6 of 46 are nominally for Navy, then only 3 would be available for fleet support roles. If the type can only be operated from the LHDs and LSD(A) (see post #323 by tiger73), then general fleet support and especially boarding party capabilities from other fleet warships will be forfeited because the MH-60R is not suited.

Broadening the discussion a bit. Amphibious operations involving large platforms have historically been sluggish activities necessitating very detailed planning, although perhaps to a lesser extent since the advent of helicopters than when landing craft were solely employed. Nevertheless, aircraft carrier platforms cannot be quickly put to sea as has been trumpeted by the politicians and DoD for natural disaster and humanitarian assistance purposes, nor especially for their primary military functions. They are not a quick reaction capability.


The MRH90 is presumed not to be air deployable by C-130 and any potential difficulties with preparation for airlift by C-17 and reconfiguration at destination seem not to have been publicly aired to date. Whereas the Iroquois could be prepared for C-130 airlift in less than one hour and flyable at destination within that time-frame, there will now be a diminished ADF quick reaction response capability if utility helos are totally shed and the medium lift MRH90 acquisition fully proceeds. Long range ferry of the MRH90 for regional operations will be pretty costly due to higher operating costs.


The smallish ADF would arguably have been better equipped for quick reaction amphibious support operations with several JHSV rather than LPD and LSD(A). See:
The USA’s JHSV Fast Catamaran Ships. Maybe the hangar could accommodate 2 x MRH90 with manual blade fold!

Last edited by Bushranger 71; 10th Aug 2012 at 23:00. Reason: grammar
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Old 11th Aug 2012, 00:00
  #326 (permalink)  
 
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MRH90 Air Deployability and Compatibility with RAN Ships

The MRH90 is deployable in the C-17. It can be carried intact with no disassembly - simply fold main and tail rotor. The OEM has not yet certified it to be carried in the C-17 in this condition (even though the ADF has done it a few times already for deliveries from France). A tech airworthiness decision to be made by the ADF, perhaps?

Of note, the RAN is about to receive the first of 2 LHDs - these will be the primary method of deploying MRH90's long distances, and supporting them once they get into theatre.

As for RAST etc, the MRH90 will not be fitted with RAST, nor will it be fitted with powered blade fold. The operating envelope has been demonstrated to be quite reasonable with the manual blade fold. MRH90 can be fitted with floats (BIG ones) and the RAN has already demonstrated that they work !

The NH90 (NFH) would have been compatible with RAST, ASIST and HARPOON.....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xduiwwmb4u...H%20Floats.jpg

Last edited by BluenGreen; 11th Aug 2012 at 00:07. Reason: additional info
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Old 11th Aug 2012, 22:26
  #327 (permalink)  
 
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Suggested actions to correct poor planning

MinDef insists that the economically unattainable Force 2030 vision will still persist in DWP2013, despite a lot of faith being placed in warships and aircraft yet to be proved sufficiently capable.

If the Service Chiefs really want to ensure adequate and credible military preparedness (ongoing, not futuristic), then they must be prepared to take on the politicians and DoD Public Service hierarchy by recommending some difficult decisions. It is anathema to accept military capacity being further compromised by progressing flawed planning and a potentially bigger tin of worms may result from continued run-down of proven capabilities in service, like Blackhawk as outlined in post #263.

Considering the recently announced contract to maintain Blackhawk/Seahawk for another 4 years, with options to extend for a further 6 years, the Blackhawk fleet should be brought up to the same modification status as a priority. See: Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence and Minister for Defence Materiel – Joint Media Release – Black Hawk and Seahawk maintenance and engineering services contract.

Herewith some bold thoughts on other possible actions, not necessarily in any order of precedence:
  • Discard the ADF Helicopter Strategic Master Plan, which has already been invalidated by excising from Defence Capability Plan 2012 the original intent of limiting the ADF helo fleet to just 4 types.
  • Freeze the MRH90 project.
  • Investigate the cost penalties involved with cancellation of remaining MRH90 deliveries (some other nations are opting out).
  • Analyse the effects of suspending any imprudent whole of life support/maintenance contracts.
  • Consider putting Tiger and any MRH90 into storage.
  • Seek variation of the MH-60R contract to acquisition of MH-60S in lieu.
  • Optimise Blackhawk, Seahawk, Kiowa and remaining Iroquois in storage via modest cost manufacturer approved upgrade programs.
  • Expand the CH-47F acquisition to 12 aircraft.
  • Shed the HATS twin-engined trainer/LUH notion, acquire more Kiowa for training/recce and dispose of Squirrel downstream as an offset.
Some might feel impractical options; but just think of possible adverse consequences downstream if present planning proceeds, not least being soaring ADF helo fleet operating costs. Some good old-fashioned leadership is required to admit shortcomings and pursue remedial action, albeit unpalatable in some quarters.

Last edited by Bushranger 71; 11th Aug 2012 at 22:37.
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Old 12th Aug 2012, 17:54
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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Two small questions.
How Sierra/Romeo compares to MRH90 regarding shipborne operations (seastate) and given the fact that those helicopters are having a similar MTOW, how Sierra/Romeo power train compares to MRH's (for example OEI)?

Arrakis
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 00:46
  #329 (permalink)  
 
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BR71, your obvious fondness for the Huey is understandable but continually banging on about bringing the aircraft back into service undermines the credibility of your more thoughtful contributions.

Both the Iroquois and Kiowa are aircraft from another, simpler era - neither are suited to the needs of today's ADF. The Kiowa is not currently fit for purpose even as a trainer because it cannot be legally flown in IF conditions. The ADF has clearly indicated a desire to move to multi-engine IFR aircraft, both for reasons of safety and to train their pilots in complex, multi-engine types from the outset. Whether that is a sensible policy or not is moot, however that's where things are going.

You aren't seriously suggesting that the Government should look at placing ARH & MRH-90 in storage are you?? Personally I think both types were horrendous mistakes but no Government is going to park a billion-plus dollar (?) capability in the shed.
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 01:34
  #330 (permalink)  
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They binned the Sea Sprites after spending a billion plus.

Trouble is the plan is in motion so no amount of logic will stop it now.
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 01:48
  #331 (permalink)  
 
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The Seasprites were not able to meet airworthiness standards.

Whether they are fit for purpose or not, the MRH & ARH are able to meet airworthiness standards - major distinction!
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 03:06
  #332 (permalink)  
 
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Hello Felix; re your post #329.

Many seem somewhat aligned with the DoD 'group think' mindset wherein Australia should just continue to cast aside useful platforms despite manufacturer upgrade programs enabling continuing operational application by other operators worldwide. Shedding capable proven hardware stems from the central plank of defence policy being support of largely foreign-parented defence industry through generating highly expensive projects for new dubious merit platforms and associated imprudent whole of life support contracts. Maybe $7billion or more has been/is being foolishly squandered on needless helo acquisitions when military requirements could have been adequately satisfied via cost-effective upgrade programs.

If platforms like C-130H, Caribou, Iroquois, Kiowa continue to provide adequate military capabilities in operational theatres, then why does Australia continue with its longstanding folly of virtually giving away such assets in lieu of optimising them at modest cost and/or putting them into dry climate storage, as happens in the US? And how can DoD justify shedding say Iroquois and then lease civil versions to do functions once performed by ADF assets?
Both the Iroquois and Kiowa are aircraft from another, simpler era - neither are suited to the needs of today's ADF. The Kiowa is not currently fit for purpose even as a trainer because it cannot be legally flown in IF conditions.
Worldwide utilisation of Iroquois and Kiowa platforms is very strong with service life expectancy forseeably unlimited due to long range supportability. Use of upgraded platforms is broadening around the world due to proven reliability and cost-effectiveness.

A year or so back, a MinDef Advisor (minder) informed me that the Huey II Iroquois would no longer meet DoD crashworthy standards. How absurd, when numbers in service are increasing and they are now being utilised by multiple law enforcement and emergency services agencies in the US. An overemphasis on OH&S requirements in military planning will become hugely costly and limit the flexibility of the ADF. See the overview at this link regarding enhancement features for the USAF TH-1H (Huey II) including the latest multi-function cockpit displays and avionics enhancements plus improved crashworthiness (all at unit cost of only $2million) - to remain in service until 2025 on present planning: TH-1H Iroquois (Huey)


Regarding basic helo training, the Kiowa is widely utilised for this purpose with recce versions also operated at night by other armed forces. Seemingly, DoD now considers the ADF must conform with civil aviation IFR requirements. Intent to acquire an expensive twin-engined training aircraft/LUH for this purpose can only be considered needless extravagance.
You aren't seriously suggesting that the Government should look at placing ARH & MRH-90 in storage are you?? Personally I think both types were horrendous mistakes but no Government is going to park a billion-plus dollar (?) capability in the shed.
Yes; I certainly am suggesting putting ARH & MRH90 in storage. Operating costs for the ADF will soar and I foresee shrinking of some functions for all 3 arms. The ARH does not have the versatility/flexibility of the Bushranger platform which could be configured as required to conduct an occasional weapons camp, so the aircraft could still be mainly employed in utility roles. In a low threat scenario, boring costly holes in the sky with the ARH is going to be hard to justify.

Problems with the MRH90 seem far from resolved and even whether it would be justifiable accepting all 46 aircraft in such circumstances. Better to freeze the project, bring all the Blackhawk fleet up to the same modification status and perhaps put any MRH90 into storage. The alternative is to do nothing and keep on squandering funding allowing the utility helo capability to further diminish.

TBM-L contends no amount of logic will stop the plan in motion. Well; there will have to be some tough decisions made re ADF structuring as economic constraints tighten over the next decade and that will require some open-minded thinking. As General Peter Leahy recently intimated, there is no point in trying to progress extravagant planning if funding will not be available; so it remains to be seen what unfolds over the next year or so.





Last edited by Bushranger 71; 13th Aug 2012 at 06:10. Reason: Omissions
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Old 27th Aug 2012, 06:19
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NH90 in AFG

First NH90 arrives in Afghanistan - News - Shephard

Interesting to see how it works out.
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Old 19th Sep 2012, 10:30
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Did anyone hear something in the media in the last few days about the project being looked at again by Government? I caught the tail end of something on ABC radio but can't find anything on the web.
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Old 22nd Sep 2012, 08:10
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It's on the projects of concern list and they are subject to annual review I think, which means MRH is up in Nov.

Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence Materiel – Defence and industry meet for Projects of Concern summit
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Old 9th Nov 2012, 04:23
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Report on NH90 deployment in Afghanistan. At least an operational deployment for real will advance the identifying and sorting out of problems with this aircraft.

Good on the Italians for doing this. They are reported to be generally pleased with the aircraft. Spares shortages shouldn't happen, but not unheard of with a new deployment, so hopefully all will learn lessons.

Italian NH90 Afghan deployment hampered by teething problems - News - Shephard

John

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Old 9th Nov 2012, 08:41
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Not to mention the latest embarkation on the good ship Tobruk!

Defence Materiel Organisation
All Images - FotoWeb 7.0

All Images - FotoWeb 7.0



Good effort to the boys and girls on 808 and Tobruk!

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Old 23rd Jan 2013, 12:47
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Italian NH90 Update - AFG

Update on the AFG deployment containing some interesting information (which you wouldn't expect from an ongoing deployment). You have to register on the website to read it fully unfortunately.

IN FOCUS: Italy updates on NH90 service in Afghanistan
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Old 25th Jan 2013, 02:37
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IN FOCUS: Nemo's war

Interesting article Smack Hawk.

Last year brought the NH90 rotorcraft's first deployment, by the Italian army in Afghanistan - and performance was flawless, says the service's aviation commander

By: Luca Peruzzi

In mid-2010, Italy began preparing for the first deployment of the NH Industries NH90 tactical transport helicopter (TTH). The effort was led initially by an NH90 task group at the Italian army's experimental aviation centre, and then by the service's 7 Regiment, "Vega".
A helicopter squadron called Task Unit Nemo was established, trained and certificated for the out-of-area mission. This comprises five NH90 TTHs - or UH-90As, to use the Italian defence ministry's designation - and some 45 personnel, including five crews and a team of 15 maintenance operators.


The original plan had been to deploy earlier in 2012, but between 18 August and 23 September the NH90s and unit personnel were flown aboard US Air Force Boeing C-17 strategic transports to Herat, Italy's main operating base in Afghanistan and the site at which the nation leads the Regional Command (RC) West element of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF).
Each helicopter required about two days' work to be returned to flight status. Col Salvatore Annigliato, commander of the Italian army's aviation battalion in Afghanistan, says the first helicopters and personnel immediately began an acclimatisation period until the unit was declared fully operational on 26 September. This milestone was achieved after 90 sorties and 60 flight hours, including about 36h flown in operational conditions, he adds.
LOCAL REQUIREMENTS


Also called Task Force Fenice, the battalion counts among its rotary-wing assets 10 Agusta*Westland AW129C Mangusta attack helicopters and six Boeing CH-47C+ Chinook transports. To cope with Afghan theatre requirements, the service decided to deploy the ad hoc interim operational version of the TTH, the NH90 IOC+ Enhanced. This features stable mission software compared with the initial operating capability training version, as well as an almost complete avionics and mission systems suite.
The latter includes alert and de-icing equipment, a full electronic warfare suite and a reduced Selex ES communication package with two multiband VHF/UHF SRT-651/N-S sets and one high-frequency SRT 170/M6 radio equipped with cryptography, to allow for secure communications between air and land operators. However, the aircraft lacks a satellite communication terminal.
Earlier restrictions, including using the rear ramp, landing at an altitude above 6,000ft (1,830m), and flying in snow and icing conditions, have been lifted. Platform protection has also been enhanced, through the addition of ballistic protection and two Oto Melara pintle mounts for Dillon 7.62mm gatling guns.
"Since September 2012, Task Unit Nemo's five NH90s and personnel have flown 300h in more than 400 sorties, without a single mission having to be aborted for technical malfunctions, and assuring all missions assigned by RC West," says Annigliato.
"With two helicopters always available, two on maintenance cycle and one in attrition status, the unit was able to lodge the required 65 flying hours per month until 2012's end. This figure was then elevated to 80h, while aircraft availability allowed the unit to maintain four helicopters operational for limited periods," he adds.
WINTER SEASON


The most-used airframe accumulated 96 flying hours, operating in hot-and-high environmental conditions, with temperatures reaching above 40°C (104°F) during the earlier deployment stage, and conducting day and night missions from elevated forward operating sites such as at Chagcharan (7,850ft elevation) in brown-out conditions. With the arrival of the winter season, NH90s are flying in adverse weather conditions characterised by snow and ice, with temperatures often below -10°C.
"The capabilities being provided by Task Unit Nemo are in line with the operational requirements of Combat Support and Combat Service Support, forward medical evacuation and helicopter sniping in support of ISAF special force command expressed by RC West headquarters," says Annigliato.
Less than one month into the NH90 deployment, the Italian army's aviation battalion led a mixed ISAF and Afghan air assault mission to move an Afghan army battalion from Farah province capital to a forward operating base in Gulistan district - a distance of some 75nm (140km). Operation Grasshoppers made use of 15 helicopters, including two Afghan Mil Mi-17s, four Italian AW129Cs, six Chinooks (two each from Italian, Spanish and US units), two US Army Boeing AH-64 Apache attack helicopters and one NH90. Conducted in three phases during three days, the operation involved the movement of 700-plus personnel in more than 20 sorties and six main mixed helicopter formations, totalling about 100 flying hours. "Although mainly used for transportation and forward medevac missions, the single NH90 was employed to provide special forces with helicopter-sniping cover," says Annigliato.


n November, Task Unit Nemo assets participated in Operation Worker Ant, with the NH90 acting as airborne platform for the Joint Tactical Air Control to provide command and control functions and synchronise the aerial fire and intelligence support for ground troops. "Thanks to 'Rover 4' connectivity through onboard communication equipment, this allows up-to-date intelligence coverage and multinational co-ordination," says Annigliato.
The NH90 became the most requested platform for special forces operations, mainly conducted in night and reduced-light conditions with the Thales helmet mounted system and display, Selex ES navigation forward-looking infrared sensor and digital map generator. These enabled a range of missions, including helicopter sniping, thanks to the aircraft's fly-by-wire flight control system, which offers a smooth ride and platform stabilisation, air interdiction vehicle and mission controller capabilities. "The NH90 platform is so far responding well to the theatre's environmental and operational conditions and, in some areas such as propulsion power, exceeding expectations," says Annigliato.
"While operating in hot-and-high conditions, the engines offer at least a 10% increase each in available power compared with the flight manual. The boroscope inspection shows the integral particle separator to be working as requested. The airframe has not so far showed specific issues related to the theatre's flying environment and the wear conditions of rotor blades and powerplant are comparable to other aviation battalion rotary-wing assets."
He adds that issues such as windshield cracks, for which remedies have already been identified, have yet to show in operations; likewise the poor robustness of the cargo compartment floor. Light damage to tyres when landing on stony ground requires attention, he says, but the problem is "expected to be solved soon".
The NH90 maintenance team conducts safety inspections at 50h and 100h intervals in the first two years. The 300h maintenance stop on the first helicopter will be conducted in Italy, with similar activities on other NH90s performed locally. An AgustaWestland field service representative supports the unit at Herat.
Italian army aviation battalion assets are usually deployed at forward operating bases to better support ground troops. Such operational doctrine is not hurting the NH90's availability during the forward deployment, although a maintenance team of two to three operators accompanies the assets in case.
Italian army NH90s are flown in a heavily armed transport configuration, centred on a five-member crew including two pilots, a flight engineer and two gunner operators. Characterised by a stow position limiting the encumbrance in the cargo doors area, each of the two lightweight Oto Melara-sourced guns weighs 220kg (485lb) with a 4,400-round ammunition box. To conduct forward medical evacuation missions, the helicopter can also embark a fully equipped intensive care station for treating the wounded, managed by the Italian army's specialised medical team.
Although capable of carrying 11-12 soldiers in a basic configuration with a three-person crew, the installation of the pintle-mounted guns reduces the transportation capabilities of NH90 IOC+ Enhanced platforms to eight troops.
USEFUL LOAD


"In addition to the five-member crew, the standard payload for RC West area operations in summer season is based on six fully equipped soldiers of 130kg each, or around 800kg," says Annigliato.
"During winter season we can carry seven soldiers, while a maximum useful load of eight troops or 1,000kg of internal cargo is imposed by the cabin layout, operational conditions permitting," he adds.
"The latter also required new operational procedures to rapidly exit and board using the helicopter rear ramp, as the forward cabin area is dominated by the two pintle-mounted gun systems." However, he says, "together with ballistic protection, the latter are not limiting at all the emergency egress from the side-sliding doors."
With a Thales electronic warfare suite, including the same company's radar warning receiver, plus Cassidian MILDS II missile launch detector, Selex ES RALM 01/V2 laser warning receiver and MBDA chaff and flare dispensers, Task Unit Nemo's NH90s embody a modular composite ballistic protection kit. Weighting about 260kg, this protects the cargo cabin floor, while the cockpit features armoured seats for the two pilots.
"The avionics are responding well and so far have not shown problems. The digital map generator and the weather radar enhance navigation and ground separation capabilities, while the projected data on the helmet-mounted system and display in 'configuration 3', which offers a tangible improvement with night vision system compared to 'configuration 0', together with the fly-by-wire flight control system modes and the navigation FLIR, provide a significantly better situational awareness during landing operation in brown-out and white-out condition.
"Moreover, the Selex ES mission planning and analysis system significantly reduces crew workload during the mission, tangibly increasing flight safety," adds Annigliato. The icing alert and de-icing system on the aircraft's rotor, engine and horizontal stabiliser have also worked properly in the current winter season, expanding the flight envelope.
The French have managed to deploy ARH, and the Italians have managed to deploy MRH. Is Australia simply too cautious in regards to introduction into service?
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Old 31st Jan 2013, 21:31
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Not totally unrelated to the subject of this thread. (Cut and pasted from the Oz politics thread.)

Former general turns firepower on Smith

The ''cash-strapped'' Gillard government has put its own political risk ahead of Australia's national security, a highly respected former general says.

Major-General Jim Molan, the commander of the 300,000 strong coalition force in Iraq in 2004, says Labor's management of Defence since 2009 has been ''appalling'' and is having a ''terrifying'' effect on the Australian Defence Force.

General Molan, now a public speaker and defence commentator, is scathing in his criticism of Defence Minister Stephen Smith, who he says has gone beyond ineffectiveness to actively damaging his portfolio.

'Mr Smith does not seem to like the ADF, does not seem to trust it, apparently does not want to be its chief executive, shows no public interest in its ultimate operational effectiveness, does not know how to measure efficiency or effectiveness [and] is risk averse in a portfolio that is all about risk,'' he said.
There's a bright side to the current bad floods in southern Queensland - the AAVN chopper drivers are getting some much-needed flying.
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