Pregnant RAF officer awarded £16,000 for discrimination
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Damned if you do, damned if you don't
Sounds to me like the MoD was buggered either way.
They moved her for what they thought were the correct reasons (operational service when preggers, reduced standard of ante-natal care etc).
If they hadn't removed her and something went wrong with her pregnancy, she may well have sued for even more.
She was lucky enough that she got a posting with her husband in the first place, many more service people don't (not saying it shouldn't happen, but just that she should be grateful for it).
As for missing out on promotion because she was on leave and didn't receive a performance review 2 things spring to mind.
1. Why is it so difficult in this day and age to sort out the review irrespective of where you happen to be?
2. Even if she had the review, was she 100% guaranteed promotion or was it just that she missed out on possible promotion?
They moved her for what they thought were the correct reasons (operational service when preggers, reduced standard of ante-natal care etc).
If they hadn't removed her and something went wrong with her pregnancy, she may well have sued for even more.
She was lucky enough that she got a posting with her husband in the first place, many more service people don't (not saying it shouldn't happen, but just that she should be grateful for it).
As for missing out on promotion because she was on leave and didn't receive a performance review 2 things spring to mind.
1. Why is it so difficult in this day and age to sort out the review irrespective of where you happen to be?
2. Even if she had the review, was she 100% guaranteed promotion or was it just that she missed out on possible promotion?
Makes me wonder if the chap representing MOD at the tribunal was really up to the job. I thought the appraisal system was built around an annual cycle, so how does being on leave affect that, surely it could have been done a few weeks late when she came back off her holiday?
does this ruling mean that everyone else whose appraisal is too late will also be 'compensated'?
does this ruling mean that everyone else whose appraisal is too late will also be 'compensated'?
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Someone must know her - put her name up on here.
That way I am sure there will be a long line of people in your Royal Air Force willing to work alongside her in the future given her loyalty, leadership and lack of spine.
G
That way I am sure there will be a long line of people in your Royal Air Force willing to work alongside her in the future given her loyalty, leadership and lack of spine.
G
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As no doubt there would be a bunch of people just lining up to give her the benifit of their bitterness, the fact that she has not been outed makes sense just for that reason alone. Maybe she should out herself ?
That said, it's a small service and how many pregnanat officers are there in it.....
Maybe if she gave the 16k to H4H or the RAFBF then max respect to the lady
But as I said before, I would love to know the real story.
That said, it's a small service and how many pregnanat officers are there in it.....
Maybe if she gave the 16k to H4H or the RAFBF then max respect to the lady
But as I said before, I would love to know the real story.
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Falklands is classed as operational - pregnant is not compatible with ops and the default answer is to be sent home - the default answer since I can remember.
Surely it's time for us to grow up - pregnancy is not an illness and certainly in the earlier months it will not incapacitate the lady (it may alter her demeanour temporarily).
Surely it's not beyond the wit of man (sic) to discuss her 'disposal' with HER?
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One can almost picture her husband (who probably looks at this site) covering his head with his wooly pully and muttering "Fer Chrissake, make it all go away - please"
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I am aware they have some odd medical limitations in FI. ISTR you have to be G2 or G1 even to go there. I don't know whether the same applies to those finding themselves with child.
I also remember when I was down there a few years ago that one of the locals had an ectopic pregnancy that was dealt with in the local hospital. She was was then sent to Chile to a 'proper' hospital, but not surprisingly their facilities were worse than those on the Islands!
anotherthing is spot on. The MOD was damned either way.
I have to say that in every instance I have come across, pregnant members of my Service have been given every consideration, irrespective of rank.
STH
I also remember when I was down there a few years ago that one of the locals had an ectopic pregnancy that was dealt with in the local hospital. She was was then sent to Chile to a 'proper' hospital, but not surprisingly their facilities were worse than those on the Islands!
anotherthing is spot on. The MOD was damned either way.
I have to say that in every instance I have come across, pregnant members of my Service have been given every consideration, irrespective of rank.
STH
Last edited by SirToppamHat; 5th Jun 2010 at 16:17.
Thankfully we have moved on a little bit since then airpolice.
I still feel it was a little harsh to boot her out of her quarter at MPA and her posting for being a little bit pregnant. As far as I was aware the only sure-fire way of not becoming pregnant is by not having sex - or are we suggesting forced abortions too?
I still feel it was a little harsh to boot her out of her quarter at MPA and her posting for being a little bit pregnant. As far as I was aware the only sure-fire way of not becoming pregnant is by not having sex - or are we suggesting forced abortions too?
Originally Posted by airpolice
I'm only suggesting she should either be willing to take the Queen's shilling and do as instructed, or hand in the Uniform, live in Quarters with her husband and raise children.
She can't have it both ways. How can she continue to give orders to subordinates who will just try to sue the MoD because they don't want to do what they signed up for?
If they had both been at Brize, this would not have been an issue, but MPA is not like Brize. There's a price to pay for getting the operational tick in the Ojar box.
As a means of establishing a fairer and more appropriate method of dealing with such situations, her action in suing the MoD is a good thing. However, I don't believe there was anything underhand here, she didn't object to the rules until she had to obey them. How on earth can a military service operate like that?
She can't have it both ways. How can she continue to give orders to subordinates who will just try to sue the MoD because they don't want to do what they signed up for?
If they had both been at Brize, this would not have been an issue, but MPA is not like Brize. There's a price to pay for getting the operational tick in the Ojar box.
As a means of establishing a fairer and more appropriate method of dealing with such situations, her action in suing the MoD is a good thing. However, I don't believe there was anything underhand here, she didn't object to the rules until she had to obey them. How on earth can a military service operate like that?
Originally Posted by airpolice
In the RAF that I served in, splits were shown the door as soon as they got pupped.
Fly-Friendly
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Hmmm interesting one if pregnant would I want to risk my unborn babies life on a posting to the Falklands with a less than adequate hospital to deal with any pregnancy comlpications. Would I want to be a heck of a long flight back to the UK or would I want to rely on the AT system to get me back to the UK/South America to a specialist baby unit?
No option really........ un-fair discrimination my AR
E!!
No option really........ un-fair discrimination my AR
E!!
Selfish, money grabber springs to mind.
I think most of the recent comments mentioning a pregnant women in an Operational zone is not very sensible have got it absolutely correct.
No wonder she hasn't been named - her career would be over (I hope it is anyway).
I think most of the recent comments mentioning a pregnant women in an Operational zone is not very sensible have got it absolutely correct.
No wonder she hasn't been named - her career would be over (I hope it is anyway).
Last edited by WildRover; 6th Jun 2010 at 18:52. Reason: sp
...a pregnant women in an Operational zone is not very sensible...
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Irrespective of whether someone who has served in the sandpit and other taxing theatres believes that the FI is not a 'real' operational tour, it remains the case that it is deemed to be operational by the powers that be.
This brings with it the rules/regulations that other operational tours bring with them; rules and regulations that any member of the RAF should be aware of, let alone an Officer.
It is maybe wrong to use the same 'duty of care' policy for FI tours as it is for other frontline tours, but that is what happens.
Becoming pregnant is a lifestyle choice - for both parents.
Accepting that it has an impact on what you can and cannot do in a figthing force is part of the duty one signs up for. Officers should be even more aware of this.
This brings with it the rules/regulations that other operational tours bring with them; rules and regulations that any member of the RAF should be aware of, let alone an Officer.
It is maybe wrong to use the same 'duty of care' policy for FI tours as it is for other frontline tours, but that is what happens.
Becoming pregnant is a lifestyle choice - for both parents.
Accepting that it has an impact on what you can and cannot do in a figthing force is part of the duty one signs up for. Officers should be even more aware of this.
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Maybe she will do something honourable like donate the £16000+ to a worthy charity like Help for Heroes!
After all, she has not exactly suffered too much grief or hardship and I doubt that they need the money with two wages coming in.
After all, she has not exactly suffered too much grief or hardship and I doubt that they need the money with two wages coming in.
Wildrover - if your comments were expressed by anyone in her chain of command, and in anyway acted upon, you've just lined her up for an even bigger payout. Forget the rights and wrongs of the original claim, to be victimised for making a successful, legal claim will expose the MoD to a whole world of hurt....
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Unless I'm mistaken, the award was based on an adversely affected promotion, with the situation concerning her transfer back to the UK coming into play only as it set up the conditions that resulted in the adversely affected promotion.
My reading was that if her promotion hadn't been adversely affected, there would have been no award... and it is likely she wouldn't have even filed the grievance!
I strongly suspect there is more to how the evaluation vs leave situation developed than any of us knows... the transcripts of the court proceedings would be needed to determine exactly what happened there.
My reading was that if her promotion hadn't been adversely affected, there would have been no award... and it is likely she wouldn't have even filed the grievance!
I strongly suspect there is more to how the evaluation vs leave situation developed than any of us knows... the transcripts of the court proceedings would be needed to determine exactly what happened there.
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Just a thought.
Out there in civvyland, my Sister is a freelance fashion designer, damn well paid too.
She worked hard in her career, and made her choice.
Her choice was contraception.
Now she is established in her work, she is making babies, and working from home. Even got herself a house-husband.
Out there in civvyland, my Sister is a freelance fashion designer, damn well paid too.
She worked hard in her career, and made her choice.
Her choice was contraception.
Now she is established in her work, she is making babies, and working from home. Even got herself a house-husband.
Originally Posted by SirPeterHardingsLovechild
Just a thought.
Out there in civvyland, my Sister is a freelance fashion designer, damn well paid too.
She worked hard in her career, and made her choice.
Her choice was contraception.
Now she is established in her work, she is making babies, and working from home. Even got herself a house-husband.
Out there in civvyland, my Sister is a freelance fashion designer, damn well paid too.
She worked hard in her career, and made her choice.
Her choice was contraception.
Now she is established in her work, she is making babies, and working from home. Even got herself a house-husband.
How do you square your comments with the RAF's advertising that "And being married, or having kids, doesn’t have to stop you having the career you want."
Just a thought.
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Well, just my thoughts,
The pendulum has swung in a good direction, but maybe just a little too far. And led by EU and fairly liberal politicians...during a booming economy.
My sister is as liberated as they get. But she is in an industry where they will think twice about employing women of child bearing age, rather proving my point. In fact, delete (fashion) industry, and insert civvyland.
Only big corporations can afford to pay people for not going to work.
We're getting smaller.
Sick, lame, lazy, pregnant (and now paternity leave!)
All in the same bracket:- Not doing what they're paid to do.
SPHLC
(Off sick for nearly 2 years now)
The pendulum has swung in a good direction, but maybe just a little too far. And led by EU and fairly liberal politicians...during a booming economy.
My sister is as liberated as they get. But she is in an industry where they will think twice about employing women of child bearing age, rather proving my point. In fact, delete (fashion) industry, and insert civvyland.
Only big corporations can afford to pay people for not going to work.
We're getting smaller.
Sick, lame, lazy, pregnant (and now paternity leave!)
All in the same bracket:- Not doing what they're paid to do.
SPHLC
(Off sick for nearly 2 years now)