Russian special forces in dawn raid on oil tanker pirates
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From The Guardian 27th of April:
Paul and Rachel Chandler, who are both in their 50s, were bundled into a car yesterday when al-Shabaab insurgents moved into the pirate stronghold of Harardhere in the coastal region of north Somalia.
The Islamic group usually operates in southern and central Somalia but has shifted north in a possible attempt to crack down on piracy.
Maslah Yare, who leads the pirate gang that is holding the Chandlers, said the group fled into a forest to escape the militants after they moved into the town.
"Al-Shabaab militants are chasing us," Yare told The Associated Press.
The Chandlers were kidnapped in October while on a yachting holiday. The pirates seized their 38ft yacht in the Indian Ocean as they sailed toward Tanzania.
He said that pirates would abandon the Chandlers if the militants close in on them "because our lives are more important to us than holding on to them".
Ahmed Salad, a local businessman, said an advance team of al-Shabaab militants entered the pirates' territory in two vehicles on Sunday night after they forced out moderate Islamists from nearby villages. He said the militants later withdrew.
Another resident of Harardhere said the pirates had started to withdraw from the town to another pirate enclave called Hobyo.
"The town is nearly empty after the pirates have left it," said businessman Yusuf Arush. "It is calm but tense."
Drugs, alcohol and prostitution have thrived in Harardhere since it became a pirate stronghold. Such activities are opposed by al-Shabaab, an ultra-conservative Islamist militia that carries out lashings, stonings and amputations as punishment.
At present Somali pirates hold 15 vessels and more than 300 hostages.
The Islamic group usually operates in southern and central Somalia but has shifted north in a possible attempt to crack down on piracy.
Maslah Yare, who leads the pirate gang that is holding the Chandlers, said the group fled into a forest to escape the militants after they moved into the town.
"Al-Shabaab militants are chasing us," Yare told The Associated Press.
The Chandlers were kidnapped in October while on a yachting holiday. The pirates seized their 38ft yacht in the Indian Ocean as they sailed toward Tanzania.
He said that pirates would abandon the Chandlers if the militants close in on them "because our lives are more important to us than holding on to them".
Ahmed Salad, a local businessman, said an advance team of al-Shabaab militants entered the pirates' territory in two vehicles on Sunday night after they forced out moderate Islamists from nearby villages. He said the militants later withdrew.
Another resident of Harardhere said the pirates had started to withdraw from the town to another pirate enclave called Hobyo.
"The town is nearly empty after the pirates have left it," said businessman Yusuf Arush. "It is calm but tense."
Drugs, alcohol and prostitution have thrived in Harardhere since it became a pirate stronghold. Such activities are opposed by al-Shabaab, an ultra-conservative Islamist militia that carries out lashings, stonings and amputations as punishment.
At present Somali pirates hold 15 vessels and more than 300 hostages.
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Another point often glossed over or missed, is that many of the hijacked crew do not put up any resistance. Why could this be?
The problem of arming merchant ships crews raises a lot of problems, including the racheting-up of pirates weaponry if they know a crew is armed. I consider a better idea is to have heavily armed escorts shadowing vessels, and pouncing on pirates the instant they show signs of piracy-like movements.
Low Flier - If the Somali Sharia courts were effective, piracy would be lessening, and the Somalis would be stringing them up. I'd suggest the Somali courts are soft on pirates, and are more concerned with local land and personal disputes, in line with Sharia Law. Remember, every country that operates under Sharia Law has a major twist towards savage retribution towards what we in the West would consider minor personal indiscretions... yet is prepared to let major crimes go unpunished, particularly if it's done in the name of Allah, and against the hated Westerners. I notice that they have no problem with accepting donated food, in sacks with an American flag on them, though.....
Most ships seem to drive around the world with a Panamanian or Bahamas flag on the back so the outside observer would not know whether the shipping company was based in or London or Tokyo.
There are three stages needed to deal with the problem.
Stage III is my suggestion....designed around the proper installation and use of my favorite Anti-Pirate device.
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I like your style !
In reality, cruise & merchant ships have tried ( for real ) such things as very powerful acoustic and high power water 'soft no-kill' 'weapons', but it seems only the real stuff will deterr the pirates...
In reality, cruise & merchant ships have tried ( for real ) such things as very powerful acoustic and high power water 'soft no-kill' 'weapons', but it seems only the real stuff will deterr the pirates...
Donkey's years ago I saw what must have been one of the last of the Liberty ships in Belize harbour sporting a Bofors like anti-aircraft gun on a raised foredeck. Piracy in the Caribbean was not unknown at the time so this was their answer.
I can forsee some Somali pirates highjacking a vessel. Sailing it down the Somali coast picking up hoards of extra passengers and then sailing it to Southampton. They would be met by an army of refugee groups and Legal Aid lawyers and in no time they would be set up in a house with free furniture, TV and lots of money to keep going with.
I can forsee some Somali pirates highjacking a vessel. Sailing it down the Somali coast picking up hoards of extra passengers and then sailing it to Southampton. They would be met by an army of refugee groups and Legal Aid lawyers and in no time they would be set up in a house with free furniture, TV and lots of money to keep going with.
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Not if I got there first in my Kilo class sub' ( simply as it's cheaply available, nothing to do with the truly crap book of that title )or Sea Harrier with Sea Eagle- now let's get back to reality, which is mad enough; if you haven't read it already try the book - not film - 'Black Hawk Down'...
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Ships were first armed with cannon in the 15th century. At this time, no disctinction was made in the design of military or merchant ships.
The merchant ship of choice in the 16th centry, the carrack, was armed.
The East Indiamen trading ships of the 17th and 18th centuries were heavily armed, able to slug it out with ships-of-the-line on equal terms.
The 19th century saw the development of the clipper, which relied mainly on speed to avoid piracy. Also, privateering was outlawed in 1856 through the Convention of Paris.
Armed merchantmen were used extensively in the 20th century, by both sides during WWI and WWII, in both defensive and offensive roles.
The current situation with piracy in not new or unique. It is just a different geopolitical climate in which it is has taken root. Having to fight to protect your international trade is an enduring historical reality. I can't see that changing anytime soon.
The merchant ship of choice in the 16th centry, the carrack, was armed.
The East Indiamen trading ships of the 17th and 18th centuries were heavily armed, able to slug it out with ships-of-the-line on equal terms.
The 19th century saw the development of the clipper, which relied mainly on speed to avoid piracy. Also, privateering was outlawed in 1856 through the Convention of Paris.
Armed merchantmen were used extensively in the 20th century, by both sides during WWI and WWII, in both defensive and offensive roles.
The current situation with piracy in not new or unique. It is just a different geopolitical climate in which it is has taken root. Having to fight to protect your international trade is an enduring historical reality. I can't see that changing anytime soon.
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The greatest single problem facing those who wish to wipe out Somali pirates is "legal restrictions". Those who wiped out piracy in the past had no such BS restrictions. Piracy doesn't warrant any legal protection... just a good dose of HE ordnance or many multiple rounds of large calibre bullets.
BBC - Somali pirates live the high life... BBC NEWS | Africa | Somali pirates living the high life
BBC - Can Somali pirates be defeated?... BBC News - Can Somali pirates be defeated?
The answer to the last question shouldn't involve any navel-gazing or considerations about possibly causing pain, to some people not directly involved in piracy. All Somalis support piracy, directly or indirectly.
BBC - Inside story of a Somali pirate attack... BBC NEWS | Africa | Inside story of Somali pirate attack
The simple technique of declaring war on Somali pirates will solve any "legal" ramifications. Under world-recognised Geneva Conventions, after a declaration of war, there are only 4 basic reasons needed to shoot to kill... otherwise known as the Rules of Engagement...
1. The enemy is wearing a recognised combatant style of dress or uniform...
2. The enemy refuses to stop when challenged...
3. The enemy fires on you...
4. The enemy is armed and threatening you...
BBC - Somali pirates live the high life... BBC NEWS | Africa | Somali pirates living the high life
BBC - Can Somali pirates be defeated?... BBC News - Can Somali pirates be defeated?
The answer to the last question shouldn't involve any navel-gazing or considerations about possibly causing pain, to some people not directly involved in piracy. All Somalis support piracy, directly or indirectly.
BBC - Inside story of a Somali pirate attack... BBC NEWS | Africa | Inside story of Somali pirate attack
The simple technique of declaring war on Somali pirates will solve any "legal" ramifications. Under world-recognised Geneva Conventions, after a declaration of war, there are only 4 basic reasons needed to shoot to kill... otherwise known as the Rules of Engagement...
1. The enemy is wearing a recognised combatant style of dress or uniform...
2. The enemy refuses to stop when challenged...
3. The enemy fires on you...
4. The enemy is armed and threatening you...
Last edited by onetrack; 18th May 2010 at 03:08.
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Here we go again: "War on terror" "War on drugs" "War against want".
Ho hum. Always the war talk.
Never an understanding of the underlying problems.
The Americans tried that **** in Mogadishu. It didn't work.
Ho hum. Always the war talk.
Never an understanding of the underlying problems.
The Americans tried that **** in Mogadishu. It didn't work.
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Okay Low Flier, what's your brilliant answer then ?
Barry, Merchant ships were indeed armed, including East Indiamen, but never able to take on a fully tooled up Ship Of the Line; they were equipped to take on pirates, not warships.
Even the square rigged training ship 'Royalist' has dummy painted on gunports, as the East Indiamen did, but this time for the sake of looks rather than deterrence - her only armament apart from what the skipper may have tucked away is a saluting cannon !
And yes I have sailed her and a few others, not as a Cadet but being given a lift home after a hairy delivery trip in my little boat.
Merchant ships such as Carracks were always a little bit fatter & slower, for load carrying, compared to their contempory warships, once the two types began developing.
As for the Somalis, I've said it before & I'll say it again, time for a 'Q' Ship !
That's not any 'Western' theory, I'd be similarly p'd off at attacks on any ship or yacht from anywhere.
Barry, Merchant ships were indeed armed, including East Indiamen, but never able to take on a fully tooled up Ship Of the Line; they were equipped to take on pirates, not warships.
Even the square rigged training ship 'Royalist' has dummy painted on gunports, as the East Indiamen did, but this time for the sake of looks rather than deterrence - her only armament apart from what the skipper may have tucked away is a saluting cannon !
And yes I have sailed her and a few others, not as a Cadet but being given a lift home after a hairy delivery trip in my little boat.
Merchant ships such as Carracks were always a little bit fatter & slower, for load carrying, compared to their contempory warships, once the two types began developing.
As for the Somalis, I've said it before & I'll say it again, time for a 'Q' Ship !
That's not any 'Western' theory, I'd be similarly p'd off at attacks on any ship or yacht from anywhere.
Last edited by Double Zero; 18th May 2010 at 08:51.
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Nothing bizzare, except to a Somali pirate, who you're doing a good impression of.
Where exactly do aircraft come in, apart from my bright idea of an 'Atlantic Conveyor' style container ship with a gun & rocket equipped Harrier hidden away ?!
BTW I was on the Harrier II & FRS1&2 development team, so not speaking as a total novice ( total knob maybe, but that's a different subject !)...
Where exactly do aircraft come in, apart from my bright idea of an 'Atlantic Conveyor' style container ship with a gun & rocket equipped Harrier hidden away ?!
BTW I was on the Harrier II & FRS1&2 development team, so not speaking as a total novice ( total knob maybe, but that's a different subject !)...
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Onetrack
In response to your quoting of me, and your subsequent response:
Quote:
Another point often glossed over or missed, is that many of the hijacked crew do not put up any resistance. Why could this be?
It is because crews are NOT armed, and deliberately so, by ship owners...and the crews are instructed to offer no resistance to pirates, for fear of antagonising them, and suffering crew fatalities as a result.
The problem of arming merchant ships crews raises a lot of problems, including the racheting-up of pirates weaponry if they know a crew is armed. I consider a better idea is to have heavily armed escorts shadowing vessels, and pouncing on pirates the instant they show signs of piracy-like movements.
I did say I was being coy in my post!!
I am referring to the fact that many ships are said to to be hijacked to order (read: insurance jobs) which is why they are traveling slowly, near to the coast, have crews who may know the pirates and and do not put up resistance. Clearly my mentioning of not including western, Russian or other such ships made no impact
I did not mention the crews of these ships are usually armed, but did think the other points had covered the subject
.
In response to your quoting of me, and your subsequent response:
Quote:
Another point often glossed over or missed, is that many of the hijacked crew do not put up any resistance. Why could this be?
It is because crews are NOT armed, and deliberately so, by ship owners...and the crews are instructed to offer no resistance to pirates, for fear of antagonising them, and suffering crew fatalities as a result.
The problem of arming merchant ships crews raises a lot of problems, including the racheting-up of pirates weaponry if they know a crew is armed. I consider a better idea is to have heavily armed escorts shadowing vessels, and pouncing on pirates the instant they show signs of piracy-like movements.
I did say I was being coy in my post!!
I am referring to the fact that many ships are said to to be hijacked to order (read: insurance jobs) which is why they are traveling slowly, near to the coast, have crews who may know the pirates and and do not put up resistance. Clearly my mentioning of not including western, Russian or other such ships made no impact
I did not mention the crews of these ships are usually armed, but did think the other points had covered the subject
.
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Yes, it is simply a case of not trying to hijack a Russian vessel, but rather to have a half hearted attack on anything, and be caught in the act by the British
If I were a pirate, I would be doing that right now, and then asking for residence in the UK, with all the benefits that can bring. The Brits would take one look at me: A drug eating AK47 holding criminal and possible murderer, and have to let me in (on the grounds there are folks exactly like ME in my own country, who kill people)
If I were a pirate, I would be doing that right now, and then asking for residence in the UK, with all the benefits that can bring. The Brits would take one look at me: A drug eating AK47 holding criminal and possible murderer, and have to let me in (on the grounds there are folks exactly like ME in my own country, who kill people)
Terror ringleader' to stay in UK The alleged leader of an al-Qaeda plot to bomb targets in north-west England has won his appeal against deportation.
A special immigration court said Abid Naseer was an al-Qaeda operative - but could not be deported because he faced torture or death back home in Pakistan.
Mr Naseer, 23, was one of 10 Pakistani students arrested last April as part of a massive counter-terrorism operation in Liverpool and Manchester.
Another student, Ahmad Faraz Khan, also 23, won his appeal on similar grounds.
The security services believed the men were planning to attack within days of their arrest, but neither student was charged.
'Stigmatised for life'
The Home Secretary, Theresa May, said she would not be appealing against the ruling, handed down by the Special Immigration Appeals Commission.
“ It's no way to conduct justice. If people have committed a crime, put them on trial ”
Gareth Peirce Students' lawyer
She said: "We are disappointed that the court has ruled that Abid Naseer and Ahmad Faraz Khan should not be deported to Pakistan, which we were seeking on national security grounds.
"As the court agreed, they are a security risk to the UK. We are now taking all possible measures to ensure they do not engage in terrorist activity."
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Dear God, what kind of brain dead justice system do you have in the UK these days? I thought Canada was the only nation stupid enough to make this sort of decision, I see we are not alone in our over the top PC crap,such decisions will come back to haunt us in the future, then Im sure those resposible will be safe in their gated comunity on a nice indexed government pension.
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ABU DHABI, May 13, 2010 (AFP) - Navies can intercept Somali pirate skiffs and foil hijackings but fighting waves of attacks at sea will not solve the problem, which is rooted in instability on land in Somalia, naval leaders say.
Anti-piracy efforts "will not actually resolve the base problem of why piracy is occurring ... That solution lies in the stabilisation" of Somalia, Commodore Bob Tarrant, director of Britain's Royal Navy staff, told AFP at the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium (IONS) in Abu Dhabi.
"The symptoms (piracy) we're seeing now off Somalia, in the Gulf of Aden, are clearly an outcome of what's going on on the ground" there, said Australia's navy chief, Vice Admiral Russell Crane.
"As sailors, we're really just treating the symptoms," not the root of the problem.
Anti-piracy efforts "will not actually resolve the base problem of why piracy is occurring ... That solution lies in the stabilisation" of Somalia, Commodore Bob Tarrant, director of Britain's Royal Navy staff, told AFP at the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium (IONS) in Abu Dhabi.
"The symptoms (piracy) we're seeing now off Somalia, in the Gulf of Aden, are clearly an outcome of what's going on on the ground" there, said Australia's navy chief, Vice Admiral Russell Crane.
"As sailors, we're really just treating the symptoms," not the root of the problem.
Some have suggested looking back in history. I would agree and ask those who have this problem as part of there responsibilities to study the manner in which Pompey dealt with the pirates.
To quote Cicero:
"Pompey made his preparations for the war at the end of the winter, entered upon it at the commencement of spring, and finished it in the middle of the summer."