Flying the Canberra
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C5 was known as Fat Albert by all during NATO EX Hellenic Express, 1971 IIRC. I worked in Ops. Great time had by all, work or play......
Last edited by GGR; 9th Jun 2013 at 16:52.
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Re the starter cartridges: I've still got a live one somewhere. No accounting done at all. They were very useful for;
1. Setting fire to pianos.
2. Extracting the cordite from within to then put inside shoe polish tins and place gently on the barbecue.
3. Starting Canberras.
Re the Machrihanish Escape Tunnel. We began the dig out of 'Stalagluft Machrihanish' by cutting back the turf with our curved survival knives and continued with some spoons nicked from the Mess.
Happy days in a knackered old bomber.
Bernoulli
1. Setting fire to pianos.
2. Extracting the cordite from within to then put inside shoe polish tins and place gently on the barbecue.
3. Starting Canberras.
Re the Machrihanish Escape Tunnel. We began the dig out of 'Stalagluft Machrihanish' by cutting back the turf with our curved survival knives and continued with some spoons nicked from the Mess.
Happy days in a knackered old bomber.
Bernoulli
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Bernoulli,
Thank you. Now my colleagues might believe me when I tell them about Tom, Dick and Harry and the escape from Machrihanish. I'd forgotten all about cordite in boot polish tins. I do recall the 40th Anniversary and police arriving just after a piano had been ignited with a starter cart. When the police asked the officer who was playing the burning piano to accompany him to the guard room he quickly quipped back with "I'm sorry I don't know that one". Great days.
Thank you. Now my colleagues might believe me when I tell them about Tom, Dick and Harry and the escape from Machrihanish. I'd forgotten all about cordite in boot polish tins. I do recall the 40th Anniversary and police arriving just after a piano had been ignited with a starter cart. When the police asked the officer who was playing the burning piano to accompany him to the guard room he quickly quipped back with "I'm sorry I don't know that one". Great days.
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I seem to recall that it was a 2 week detachment for most of us. The Canberras were there pulling Rushton targets for the Rapiers on Benbecula. Normally we'd do this task out of Kinloss but it was closed for runway resurfacing and so the three TT18s were exiled to Machrihanish.
Nissen huts and camp beds in the middle of nowhere. We felt like POWs. And what must a British Officer do if imprisoned? He (all aircrew were 'he' back then) must attempt to escape.
So we hatched a plot, formed a Committee, nicked some spoons and started digging. Most of the time between sorties was spent working on the tunnel. We each had a sacrificial flying suit for the purpose and we went so far as to fill our pockets with the dry sandy soil and drizzle it down our trouser legs as we strolled about on the grass. Various lengths of wood were obtained and the tunnel was partially lined. Shallow trays were fashioned to support the turf at one end and the soil and wheat in the field at the other end.
Finally the evening of the mass breakout came. I seem to recall all six of us climbing out of the tunnel into this field of young wheat, carefully replacing the lid and setting off to Machrihanish village. Some place was found and our 'escape' was celebrated with gusto. After far too many pints of gusto we shambled off home. Staggering through the dunes on the shore and golf course we all got split up. The airfield perimeter on that side of the base was, shall we say, loosely patrolled, and really wasn't much of an obstacle. Not so on the other side facing the public road: 10ft concrete posts and chain link wire. Gav Nichol was found by the RAF Police trying to climb the wire convinced that he was climbing into the base. He'd pottered across the entire airfield and technical site without noticing a thing. Good effort!
Not sure if the tunnel was used again. It was eventually rumbled when the farmer came to harvest his crop and put a wheel through the rather flimsy lid. Looking down into the hole he was convinced that someone was trying to break into the base and being a good citizen he alerted the authorities. Que a large WRAF Admin Office sent to investigate. Stern words and the boys were told to stop being silly and fill the tunnel up again PDQ.
Looking back through my log book I think the above all took place 23 Jun - 04 Jul 1986. Trev Jarvis, Tom Barbour, Nick Petts, Jeff Coker, Kev Baldwin. Caveat.....it's quite a while ago.
The flying on 100Sqn was not the most thrilling but we did have fun.
Cheers
Bernoulli
Nissen huts and camp beds in the middle of nowhere. We felt like POWs. And what must a British Officer do if imprisoned? He (all aircrew were 'he' back then) must attempt to escape.
So we hatched a plot, formed a Committee, nicked some spoons and started digging. Most of the time between sorties was spent working on the tunnel. We each had a sacrificial flying suit for the purpose and we went so far as to fill our pockets with the dry sandy soil and drizzle it down our trouser legs as we strolled about on the grass. Various lengths of wood were obtained and the tunnel was partially lined. Shallow trays were fashioned to support the turf at one end and the soil and wheat in the field at the other end.
Finally the evening of the mass breakout came. I seem to recall all six of us climbing out of the tunnel into this field of young wheat, carefully replacing the lid and setting off to Machrihanish village. Some place was found and our 'escape' was celebrated with gusto. After far too many pints of gusto we shambled off home. Staggering through the dunes on the shore and golf course we all got split up. The airfield perimeter on that side of the base was, shall we say, loosely patrolled, and really wasn't much of an obstacle. Not so on the other side facing the public road: 10ft concrete posts and chain link wire. Gav Nichol was found by the RAF Police trying to climb the wire convinced that he was climbing into the base. He'd pottered across the entire airfield and technical site without noticing a thing. Good effort!
Not sure if the tunnel was used again. It was eventually rumbled when the farmer came to harvest his crop and put a wheel through the rather flimsy lid. Looking down into the hole he was convinced that someone was trying to break into the base and being a good citizen he alerted the authorities. Que a large WRAF Admin Office sent to investigate. Stern words and the boys were told to stop being silly and fill the tunnel up again PDQ.
Looking back through my log book I think the above all took place 23 Jun - 04 Jul 1986. Trev Jarvis, Tom Barbour, Nick Petts, Jeff Coker, Kev Baldwin. Caveat.....it's quite a while ago.
The flying on 100Sqn was not the most thrilling but we did have fun.
Cheers
Bernoulli
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I have been spending an interesting few weeks transferring all my flight time to an electronic logbook - for reasons that are no longer apparent to me - and I just finished the part relating to The Canberra Conversion Course at Cottesmore in early 1974 before going to 100 Sqn at West Raynham, I got there via Gnats, Vulcans and four years on Bloodhounds, also at West Raynham.
Lot of good stuff here, I was trying to remember the icing let down procedure, but having read this thread, the stark horror all returns. There is a special place in Hell reserved for QFI's that relished in pulling a good engine at rotate, some 45kts below Vmca as I recall. I also vividly remember having to redo my FHT as my asym work wasn't up to scratch.. The log book records 13 consecutive EFATO's and EFOF's in 90 minutes of thigh trembling cold sweat. Being of limited stature, full rudder was a stretch, but I swear my leg developed an emergency extension capability, or perhaps it was the lifts in my boots. The subsequent trip back to the flight office was accomplished on all fours...
Great aeroplane to fly, some great memories of 100 Sqn, and my last posting before joining the mass exodus in 1975 - it was that or another ground tour, possibly (if I really behaved myself) a co-pilot slot in the Vulcan again... Since the PSS drone at MoD who gave me this glad tiding wouldn't look me in the eye, I figured the writing was on the wall.
Lot of good stuff here, I was trying to remember the icing let down procedure, but having read this thread, the stark horror all returns. There is a special place in Hell reserved for QFI's that relished in pulling a good engine at rotate, some 45kts below Vmca as I recall. I also vividly remember having to redo my FHT as my asym work wasn't up to scratch.. The log book records 13 consecutive EFATO's and EFOF's in 90 minutes of thigh trembling cold sweat. Being of limited stature, full rudder was a stretch, but I swear my leg developed an emergency extension capability, or perhaps it was the lifts in my boots. The subsequent trip back to the flight office was accomplished on all fours...
Great aeroplane to fly, some great memories of 100 Sqn, and my last posting before joining the mass exodus in 1975 - it was that or another ground tour, possibly (if I really behaved myself) a co-pilot slot in the Vulcan again... Since the PSS drone at MoD who gave me this glad tiding wouldn't look me in the eye, I figured the writing was on the wall.
Canberra VMCA
As an ex Canberra driver (and a QFI) surely no-one is ever going to throttle an engine at a speed which is not controllable and VMCA -45 k seems suicidal. I seem to remember the minimum safe speed for a Canberra was 140 knots. If an engine failed below that speed, then the drill was to close the other throttle and land ahead and accept the barrier or whatever !!
140 knots, full rudder and some bank towards the live engine, drilled into my head at Bassingbourn ! Kept me alive on the two engine failures I did have !
Or have I really lost my marbles ??
140 knots, full rudder and some bank towards the live engine, drilled into my head at Bassingbourn ! Kept me alive on the two engine failures I did have !
Or have I really lost my marbles ??
Yes, Vmca -45 isn't credible. When I did my C to I on 'berras, we went to 5 or 6000 ft to demo an engine failure below Vmca and it was rather impressive.
To answer the ME vs FJ question - I still have the posting notice from 100Sqn ("PLT ME") to 13(PR) Sqn ("PLT FJ") to prove I was an FJ pilot - just!
To answer the ME vs FJ question - I still have the posting notice from 100Sqn ("PLT ME") to 13(PR) Sqn ("PLT FJ") to prove I was an FJ pilot - just!
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Agreed Vmca - 45, by definition, does not work. Yet that Vmca was very different as between an half-full T4 with no tip-tanks and the B2 with full tip-tanks.
Flying off Bassingbourn's 2000 yards, you had to know what you were doing (with a full B15 out of Labuan, there was a brief period when it did not matter what you knew).
The notorious instructor, in my time as a student, was John Stanley. You knew he would cut the throttle early enough to make the full and correct response essential - never mind Vmca. John traded in terror, but he must have made his mind up that you were not at all likely to boot the wrong rudder. He has to have got that right every time.
Flying off Bassingbourn's 2000 yards, you had to know what you were doing (with a full B15 out of Labuan, there was a brief period when it did not matter what you knew).
The notorious instructor, in my time as a student, was John Stanley. You knew he would cut the throttle early enough to make the full and correct response essential - never mind Vmca. John traded in terror, but he must have made his mind up that you were not at all likely to boot the wrong rudder. He has to have got that right every time.
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Well Gentlemen - it was all nearly 40 years ago and the passage of time may well have changed my perception into a perceived reality.... and exactly when that finger snuck out and hooked itself around the throttle is lost to the mists of time.... Suffice to say, my logbook is littered with EFATO's and EFOF's and with an inside leg measurement of 28", the result from my point of view was a knee-trembler of the worst kind... I always felt sorry for the poor bugger in the back whose sole contribution - as I recall - was to read a checklist... I salute their memory.
The Canberra was fun to fly, and a challenge - an icing letdown always added spice to the day - and closing the throttle on the good engine at 600ft (and 145kts..?), dumping flap then waiting the 16-19 seconds for the barn door effect that would hopefully coincide with the threshold.... That exercise did lead to the highlight of my short career - a PD to Binbrook with a SE landing in a B2 where the wind wasn't quite as I expected, resulting in a loud bang shortly after touchdown and an abrupt heading change towards the weeds. I swear I was still doing 60kts when the Nav appeared and started wrestling with the door, he thankfully waited until the cursing had stopped before it was wrenched out of his hands and a swarm of firemen appeared to rescue us. I achieved a lifetime ambition that day - a ride in a shiny red fire engine - however it only delivered me to the Boss of the Lightning squadron whose precious aeroplanes it was my misfortune to have spread across the countryside while we were waiting for a spare tire... I don't think I have ever seen anyone quite so upset and not have a coronary on the spot. I probably shouldn't have laughed.
At least they let me fly it home - and an appointment with the T4 again...
The Canberra was fun to fly, and a challenge - an icing letdown always added spice to the day - and closing the throttle on the good engine at 600ft (and 145kts..?), dumping flap then waiting the 16-19 seconds for the barn door effect that would hopefully coincide with the threshold.... That exercise did lead to the highlight of my short career - a PD to Binbrook with a SE landing in a B2 where the wind wasn't quite as I expected, resulting in a loud bang shortly after touchdown and an abrupt heading change towards the weeds. I swear I was still doing 60kts when the Nav appeared and started wrestling with the door, he thankfully waited until the cursing had stopped before it was wrenched out of his hands and a swarm of firemen appeared to rescue us. I achieved a lifetime ambition that day - a ride in a shiny red fire engine - however it only delivered me to the Boss of the Lightning squadron whose precious aeroplanes it was my misfortune to have spread across the countryside while we were waiting for a spare tire... I don't think I have ever seen anyone quite so upset and not have a coronary on the spot. I probably shouldn't have laughed.
At least they let me fly it home - and an appointment with the T4 again...
I can still remember as though it was yesterday (and it was 1966) roaring across the fens at 200 ft doing crit speeds with Robin Rose in the right hand seat and him looking oh so relaxed. Not sure the nav was so relaxed!
The notorious instructor, in my time as a student, was John Stanley. You knew he would cut the throttle early enough to make the full and correct response essential - never mind Vmca. John traded in terror,
YS
"The notorious instructor, in my time as a student, was John Stanley. You knew he would cut the throttle early enough to make the full and correct response essential - never mind Vmca. John traded in terror, but he must have made his mind up that you were not at all likely to boot the wrong rudder. He has to have got that right every time."
As an ex QFI I can't imagine that any instructor would trust to luck that his stude would'nt put in the wrong rudder. I am sure he would have decided which engine to fail, would have braced the "wrong" rudder and been ready to immediately feed in the correct rudder if the stude failed to do it. Messing around with the rudder on a Canberra following (even simulated) engine failure at low height and speed, was potentially disastrous.
The Canberra was a delight on 2, a big JP, but after flying two Vs, the VC10 and several Boeings, my conclusion is that on one engine it was the worst of the lot, B. dangerous in fact ! On the other hand something like the B767 even when fully loaded was quite straightforward on one engine even after a V1 cut .
As an ex QFI I can't imagine that any instructor would trust to luck that his stude would'nt put in the wrong rudder. I am sure he would have decided which engine to fail, would have braced the "wrong" rudder and been ready to immediately feed in the correct rudder if the stude failed to do it. Messing around with the rudder on a Canberra following (even simulated) engine failure at low height and speed, was potentially disastrous.
The Canberra was a delight on 2, a big JP, but after flying two Vs, the VC10 and several Boeings, my conclusion is that on one engine it was the worst of the lot, B. dangerous in fact ! On the other hand something like the B767 even when fully loaded was quite straightforward on one engine even after a V1 cut .
Last edited by RetiredBA/BY; 4th Dec 2013 at 13:03.
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I was in upstate NY this summer visiting the Wings of Eagles Discovery Centre, which has a great collection of aeroplanes and some of the most knowledgeable museum docents I've ever come across. They have a early US B2, sadly deteriorating in a field outside, but it has the familiar bubble canopy of the Brit version although different engines. Info here
I worked for Flight Safety in Houston, TX in the late 80's and NASA at nearby Ellington AFB were operating two or three long wing WB-57F's, 122ft wingspan, high altitude recce (82,000 ft), on mostly high altitude sampling missions. They needed a recurrent ground school, so as the token Brit I got to write, and then teach it to the NASA pilots. The aeroplane bears almost no similarity to anything I've flown, but it was fascinating to talk to the pilots about the problems flying that beast - maximum bank angle 3 degrees on final, and it wouldn't stop flying in ground effect... I shudder to think what a V1 cut would be like in that, I suspect they just don't do it.
The aeroplane has been overshadowed by the U2, but in reality is a very useful high altitude vehicle, with the benefit of a two man crew and 6,000lb payload rather than one pilot and about 200lbs. The aeroplane is still in service, in fact one was brought out of mothballs this year and put in service last August. They operate in low viz, mostly unmarked paint schemes, and operate for "A Government Agency" in Afghanistan.
Wiki info here
I worked for Flight Safety in Houston, TX in the late 80's and NASA at nearby Ellington AFB were operating two or three long wing WB-57F's, 122ft wingspan, high altitude recce (82,000 ft), on mostly high altitude sampling missions. They needed a recurrent ground school, so as the token Brit I got to write, and then teach it to the NASA pilots. The aeroplane bears almost no similarity to anything I've flown, but it was fascinating to talk to the pilots about the problems flying that beast - maximum bank angle 3 degrees on final, and it wouldn't stop flying in ground effect... I shudder to think what a V1 cut would be like in that, I suspect they just don't do it.
The aeroplane has been overshadowed by the U2, but in reality is a very useful high altitude vehicle, with the benefit of a two man crew and 6,000lb payload rather than one pilot and about 200lbs. The aeroplane is still in service, in fact one was brought out of mothballs this year and put in service last August. They operate in low viz, mostly unmarked paint schemes, and operate for "A Government Agency" in Afghanistan.
Wiki info here
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Didn't remember his name, but I remember the kerfuffle - lots of witnesses, Buffer Zone infringement, etc, etc, and a sense-of-humour failure somewhere. Didn't move fast enough and for my pains got lumbered with the Summary of Evidence.
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Sorry Maxchord - it was Sharpend's tale about the Canberra at Garmisch (spring 1969?) which this very new boy has just come across. The Rhine bridges were not mentioned in the Summary I'm happy to say - unlike 'Skiers' no-one had been 'unwise' enough to enter them in the Authorisation Book!