Herk SAR?
Champagne anyone...?
I'm certainly not suggesting that the Herc is an uber SAR platform, far from it. I am however suggesting that now (soon) the Grimrod is no longer available we don't have m/any other options available to us, that's all. I too have had the deep and neverending joy of doing long range SAR off the Falklands several times so am well aware of how limited our capabilities are. I would suggest however that something must be better than nothing (we have asra drop clearance btw).
Me saying that "we can" on t'internet will have absolutely no impact on anything, including (but not limited to) the price of fish. If UK PLC has a requirement to provide long(ish) range SAR cover then it's up to them to sort it out. The Nimrod fleet is crippled and, following H-C, could never viably regenerate (certainly in this economic climate) simply to be scrapped as MRA4 arrives. If they want an interim SAR cover from the Herc then it's up to them to decide how they manage their assets.
Ultimately I reckon Mr Fishing Boat would rather know there was something that might find him out looking for him than having nothing that definitely wouldn't find him...
PS. As for airframe availability, we all know how short of airframes we are but one has to wonder how we only manage to generate a third of the fleet (J) as serviceable/deployed at any one time. Perhaps if the eng lines were properly manned we'd be able to generate more aircraft.... If only there were lots of ME engineers soon to be looking for jobs
Me saying that "we can" on t'internet will have absolutely no impact on anything, including (but not limited to) the price of fish. If UK PLC has a requirement to provide long(ish) range SAR cover then it's up to them to sort it out. The Nimrod fleet is crippled and, following H-C, could never viably regenerate (certainly in this economic climate) simply to be scrapped as MRA4 arrives. If they want an interim SAR cover from the Herc then it's up to them to decide how they manage their assets.
Ultimately I reckon Mr Fishing Boat would rather know there was something that might find him out looking for him than having nothing that definitely wouldn't find him...
PS. As for airframe availability, we all know how short of airframes we are but one has to wonder how we only manage to generate a third of the fleet (J) as serviceable/deployed at any one time. Perhaps if the eng lines were properly manned we'd be able to generate more aircraft.... If only there were lots of ME engineers soon to be looking for jobs
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Everyone keeps harping on about what other aircraft could be used for SAR. However, the MR2 does not only do SAR, it does many other jobs too - more than most of you know! What other aircraft types will be taking on these roles? How many different aircraft types will be needed to fulfill the role of just one MR2?
So we have...
C130 covering SAR - with limited SAR ability and only when there are frames available.
Merlin covering ASW - with limited range and endurance, just for starters
ASUW? MCT? HMRC? SF?
I can not believe that an island nation is really doing this to its MPA capability
MadMark!!!
So we have...
C130 covering SAR - with limited SAR ability and only when there are frames available.
Merlin covering ASW - with limited range and endurance, just for starters
ASUW? MCT? HMRC? SF?
I can not believe that an island nation is really doing this to its MPA capability
MadMark!!!
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PS. As for airframe availability, we all know how short of airframes we are but one has to wonder how we only manage to generate a third of the fleet (J) as serviceable/deployed at any one time. Perhaps if the eng lines were properly manned we'd be able to generate more aircraft.... If only there were lots of ME engineers soon to be looking for jobs
As for 'Herk SAR' - we could always stop the ageing Ks doing anything else and put them into the low fatigue SAR cover role for the next 3 years.
Buy some more ASRA kits and train the remaining crews in AR/drop procedures.
Might just fill the gap until MRA4
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Or perhaps we should bite the bullet and retire the K model now. Throw as many of the K pilots and ALM's into the J training pot as it can handle and divert all of Lynehams engineering assets at J model generation. Not a populist suggestion and certainly not a J v K thing but something that possibly needs to be considered.
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I admire the tenacity of those defending the UK C130 in SAR role - I think you are quite wrong to imagine it can come even close to a Nimrod's ability in that role, but can understand the desire to defend one's fleet. I would much rather see a C130 overhead throwing anything that floated* down to me, were I in the oggin, rather than pass my remaining time counting seagulls. I would, however, be far more confident were I to spot a Nimrod quartering the sea for my dinghy than a C130.
Somebody mentioned a C130 winning a SAR competition? I seem to recall they did that every year - wasn't there an annual SAR competition called the Lord trophy (after the Dak pilot at Arnhem) that the kipper fleet weren't invited to contest? Didn't see many C130's at the Airde-Whyte or Fincastle, so I guess that makes us even...
Dave
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Somebody mentioned a C130 winning a SAR competition? I seem to recall they did that every year - wasn't there an annual SAR competition called the Lord trophy (after the Dak pilot at Arnhem) that the kipper fleet weren't invited to contest? Didn't see many C130's at the Airde-Whyte or Fincastle, so I guess that makes us even...
Dave
*Blow up dolls, Lilos, Rubber rings...the possibilities are endless
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Lord Trophy
The Lord trophy or "Ex Thread" was, when I was stationed at Lyneham in the late 60's early 70's, a para dropping comp held in the Med and the Hercs were based in Malta. I couldn't comment on whether or not it had an SAR element to it
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Just to expand a little on Mr ripley's post #14 WRT the SA SAR mission.
The duty Q crew were 'scrambled' at approx 0700 on 17 Sept 1993 and XV213 got airborne a short time later after the tanks, inc the internal fuselage had been fully topped off. Almost as an afterthought the see off crew were grabbed from the pan to act as observers as the a/c was about to taxi. Observer seats were fitted in the para stations and 1 ASRA kit on board along with the usual Marine Markers and smokes, unfortunately there was no time load any rations. All the crew knew was that a mayday had been rx'd from a Russion cargo ship and that the cargo had shifted in heavy seas. The only location known was a point about 400 miles south of Tristan Da Cuhna, halfway between Capetown and MPA. The transit out was uneventful. No beacons were being rx'd. As the Herc approached the last known position it dropped down to a suitable height to begin a search pattern. Almost immediately after dropping through the clag one of the hastely grabbed, non trained, observers called a sighting and it turned out to be an empty liferaft. But at least the area was right. More wreckage was spotted over the next hour or so and it was found that the height had to be reduced significantly in order to spot anything. After following a fuel slick, bodies began to be spotted sporadically. Eventually a group of survivors was spotted clinging to wreckage. An ASRA drop was carried out but failed to inflate on impact. It was a perfectly positioned drop. Not long after that the crew hit bingo fuel and began the long transit back to MPA. At this point most of the nav kit began to fail and the a/c routed back using the sextant/nav's pencil. MPA was a VERY welcome sight. Let's just say the a/c took off at MOS and landed extremely light. On landing the crew brief the next crew and they flew another sortie, with AAR and rations. They had a longer period on top and dropped Sub Smash kit and possibly another ASRA. The conclusion was that two of the ships crew were picked up by the ship routed to assist but one was lost crossed decking from the raft to the ship. Still one survivor is better than none.
How do I know all this? I was sitting in the center seat all the way there and back on that first sortie. My logbook reads 10:40 day and 4:00 night. I believe it was a record for for a none AAR sortie in a Herc, unless anyone knows better, of course.
The duty Q crew were 'scrambled' at approx 0700 on 17 Sept 1993 and XV213 got airborne a short time later after the tanks, inc the internal fuselage had been fully topped off. Almost as an afterthought the see off crew were grabbed from the pan to act as observers as the a/c was about to taxi. Observer seats were fitted in the para stations and 1 ASRA kit on board along with the usual Marine Markers and smokes, unfortunately there was no time load any rations. All the crew knew was that a mayday had been rx'd from a Russion cargo ship and that the cargo had shifted in heavy seas. The only location known was a point about 400 miles south of Tristan Da Cuhna, halfway between Capetown and MPA. The transit out was uneventful. No beacons were being rx'd. As the Herc approached the last known position it dropped down to a suitable height to begin a search pattern. Almost immediately after dropping through the clag one of the hastely grabbed, non trained, observers called a sighting and it turned out to be an empty liferaft. But at least the area was right. More wreckage was spotted over the next hour or so and it was found that the height had to be reduced significantly in order to spot anything. After following a fuel slick, bodies began to be spotted sporadically. Eventually a group of survivors was spotted clinging to wreckage. An ASRA drop was carried out but failed to inflate on impact. It was a perfectly positioned drop. Not long after that the crew hit bingo fuel and began the long transit back to MPA. At this point most of the nav kit began to fail and the a/c routed back using the sextant/nav's pencil. MPA was a VERY welcome sight. Let's just say the a/c took off at MOS and landed extremely light. On landing the crew brief the next crew and they flew another sortie, with AAR and rations. They had a longer period on top and dropped Sub Smash kit and possibly another ASRA. The conclusion was that two of the ships crew were picked up by the ship routed to assist but one was lost crossed decking from the raft to the ship. Still one survivor is better than none.
How do I know all this? I was sitting in the center seat all the way there and back on that first sortie. My logbook reads 10:40 day and 4:00 night. I believe it was a record for for a none AAR sortie in a Herc, unless anyone knows better, of course.
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I well remember being attached to the 24 Sqn Lord Trophy crew in Akrotiri in (I think) 1979. This was indeed mainly a SAR competition for the Herc Sqns and the OCU, as well as an engineering competition between the Lynham Line Sqns. There was both an overland and a maritime element to it, and the fun part was sitting at the para doors chucking out smoke floats and Lindholme Gear (which as far as I know was the same as the ASR kits held in the Nimrod bomb bay).
Having flown the Nimrod for many years later in life, I can certainly confirm that there is no real comparison between the capabilities of the two types in the maritime SAR role - but something is better than nothing!
It seems that no-one from the press has asked the MOD any difficult questions on this topic as yet, while the Chiefs and the Ministers are just hoping against hope that nothing bad will happen at sea for the next few years, or that they will have moved on and it will be someone else's problem when a catastrophe occurs.
A "capability gap" is a euphemism for "We haven't any cash and we can't afford to do some of the jobs that are vital to the Nation's security"
Having flown the Nimrod for many years later in life, I can certainly confirm that there is no real comparison between the capabilities of the two types in the maritime SAR role - but something is better than nothing!
It seems that no-one from the press has asked the MOD any difficult questions on this topic as yet, while the Chiefs and the Ministers are just hoping against hope that nothing bad will happen at sea for the next few years, or that they will have moved on and it will be someone else's problem when a catastrophe occurs.
A "capability gap" is a euphemism for "We haven't any cash and we can't afford to do some of the jobs that are vital to the Nation's security"
davejb
First of all I am not interested in starting a pissing contest.
As you surmise, most of the people posting on here regarding the Herc's abilities in the SAR role appear to be present or ex Herc operators. All they have been trying to do is inform with regard to its abilities in that role. Indeed they have often stated what it cannot do as well as what it can. None of them (including myself) have, to the best of my knowledge, either had a go at the Nimrods abilities, or said they can do SAR better. They have just been trying to educate/inform.
Since you appear to be based in Forres, you are undoubtedly a current/ex Nimrod man, and no doubt have a firm grasp of its abilities. But have you ever operated the Herc? Nobody has doubted your comments on the Nimrods abilities, so why do you seem (note careful use of the word "seem") to doubt the comments from the Herc fraternity, and see it as defending ones fleet rather than just telling it as it is?
Nobody in the Herc world is clamouring to take over the SAR role from the Nimrod fleet, believe me....
Once again, I am not attempting to start a pissing contest, or flame, just a genuine question?
First of all I am not interested in starting a pissing contest.
As you surmise, most of the people posting on here regarding the Herc's abilities in the SAR role appear to be present or ex Herc operators. All they have been trying to do is inform with regard to its abilities in that role. Indeed they have often stated what it cannot do as well as what it can. None of them (including myself) have, to the best of my knowledge, either had a go at the Nimrods abilities, or said they can do SAR better. They have just been trying to educate/inform.
Since you appear to be based in Forres, you are undoubtedly a current/ex Nimrod man, and no doubt have a firm grasp of its abilities. But have you ever operated the Herc? Nobody has doubted your comments on the Nimrods abilities, so why do you seem (note careful use of the word "seem") to doubt the comments from the Herc fraternity, and see it as defending ones fleet rather than just telling it as it is?
Nobody in the Herc world is clamouring to take over the SAR role from the Nimrod fleet, believe me....
Once again, I am not attempting to start a pissing contest, or flame, just a genuine question?
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ASUW? MCT? HMRC? SF?
The MoD has responsibility for providing SAR facilities for military
operations, exercises and training within the UK and, by agreement,
exercises responsibility for the co-ordination of civil aeronautical SAR on
behalf of the DfT. Where the coverage provided by military SAR assets
meets the civil SAR coverage requirements, they will be made available for
civil maritime and land-based SAR operations. The high readiness SAR
assets are SAR helicopters, maritime surveillance fixed wing aircraft and
mountain rescue teams. The MoD also establishes and maintains an
Aeronautical Rescue Co-ordination Centre (ARCC) for the operation and
co-ordination of civil and military aeronautical SAR assets.
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The gap left is not just one of being able to search for survivors and drop ASR kit. I am sure the C-130 can do that. It is the SAR coordination that is often the more important capability that is needed. This requires a good maritime picture and communications (Including marine VHF FM). I can think of many major SAR incidents, Piper Alpha, Fastnet Disaster and the India 747 SW of Ireland are but a few where the Nimrod crews provided this type of vital support.
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Biggus,
I am not trying to conduct a pi$$ing contest either - had the capability gap been the other way, with Nimrods being used to provide tactical transport as the C130 fleet was gapped, I'd have been posting to say that was mince also.
I do, as you surmise, know the capabilities of the MR2, my experience of C130 amounts to a few sorties over the years where I've been self loading freight, and frankly it looked a bit squalid to me. The toilet facilities on the Nimrod were grim enough should the Benghazi trots hit (as I recall they once did, not for me, thank heavens) but the C130 seemed to involve a trough and a willingness to open the back door and throw the terminally afflicted out from umpty ump feet. I'd still be a bit surprised to find that the big garage at the back has been filled with all sorts of uber kit while I wasn't looking however. I remember one chap grabbing for a hand hold and the aircraft banked...it all seemed so, I don't know, unfinished?
Visual:
I can't help but think that a 13 man crew looking out of flight deck, three goldfish bowl windows, plus spare 'normal' windows (anyone not working radios or sensors) is going to see rather more than a C130 crew - C130 visual lookout is pants in comparison, unless you've carved some extra holes since the gapping was announced. I don't think I'd lean out of that big door at the back too far to see sideways...although the view downwards is probably pretty good. (Especially if you look sideways from the big door at the back a little too vigorously).
SARBE homers - no problem there, I don't doubt the herc homer is every bit as good as the Nimrod's, I do know I wouldn't like to rely on it to home anyone to my dinghy in less than a fortnight.
C+C in a major incident - unless C130's load some sort of special pallet full of control stations then Nimrod's TAC area wins hands down. Radios - not just about having them, it's the ability to use them - a Nimrod crew has 5 fully trained radio operators (ok, 4 plus the AEO, but they get shirty if not included), who spend a LOT of time training for SAR incidents (it's a pass/fail item on CAT checks) and three officers in a tac area custom made for controlling other assets... backed up by some of the siggies on occasion.
Radar: Nimrods have a fully trained, highly experienced operator with (probably) several thousand flying hours working the radar, rotating operators to maintain efficiency - sometimes a second operator will be over the radar op's shoulder, making sure things aren't missed. Will the C130 have a trained radar operator working the kit? I will bet you anything you like that Searchwater is a far more capable surface search radar than - well, any other radar you care to name, actually. It will find small things a very long way away - I have no desire to outline sensor performance, but you are betting against 4 aces.
Crew:
I don't doubt for a moment that, given the job to do, everyone on the herc fleet could do just as well as the Nimrod guys given the same equipment and the same time to train, but to suggest that the 130 guys can just slot into a place oocupied by people who are fully trained in the field, working equipment ideally suited to the role, is silly. I mean that - I'll go further, brit aircrew are damn good whether they're light blue, dark blue, or green, and such highly motivated and well educated people will do a good job given half a chance in any circumstance - but nobody is going to just pick up a role in no time flat and be anywhere near as good in it as people who have been doing it for decades.... and a lot of people on the kipper fleet regard retiring at the 22 year point as 'part timers'. Mick Muttitt had, I think, 19,000 flying hours in as a siggie when he retired (and allegedly started getting younger again - rumour has it that there's a painting of him in handbrake house that makes him look 97+ and ages daily). How can you replace that sort of experience overnight?
The current RAF have very few platforms that can do each others jobs to anything approaching the same degree of ability - it's pretty much the same across all three services - a gap of this nature means a significant reduction in coverage of that role, and I'd argue that should our political leadership decide to gap any of the overworked platforms now holding UK PLC together on the defence front.
It's not about a pi$$ing contest, it's simply that the Nimrod is designed for ASW/ASUW which conveniently makes it very good at SAR, a herc is designed as a transport aircraft and SAR is very much a secondary role (unless we're talking special fit, tasked for SAR primary, 130's). Nimrod crews would be crepe at delivering freight. Just as they would be lousy at dunking, which is why God made RN helos.
Happy Christmas
I am not trying to conduct a pi$$ing contest either - had the capability gap been the other way, with Nimrods being used to provide tactical transport as the C130 fleet was gapped, I'd have been posting to say that was mince also.
I do, as you surmise, know the capabilities of the MR2, my experience of C130 amounts to a few sorties over the years where I've been self loading freight, and frankly it looked a bit squalid to me. The toilet facilities on the Nimrod were grim enough should the Benghazi trots hit (as I recall they once did, not for me, thank heavens) but the C130 seemed to involve a trough and a willingness to open the back door and throw the terminally afflicted out from umpty ump feet. I'd still be a bit surprised to find that the big garage at the back has been filled with all sorts of uber kit while I wasn't looking however. I remember one chap grabbing for a hand hold and the aircraft banked...it all seemed so, I don't know, unfinished?
Visual:
I can't help but think that a 13 man crew looking out of flight deck, three goldfish bowl windows, plus spare 'normal' windows (anyone not working radios or sensors) is going to see rather more than a C130 crew - C130 visual lookout is pants in comparison, unless you've carved some extra holes since the gapping was announced. I don't think I'd lean out of that big door at the back too far to see sideways...although the view downwards is probably pretty good. (Especially if you look sideways from the big door at the back a little too vigorously).
SARBE homers - no problem there, I don't doubt the herc homer is every bit as good as the Nimrod's, I do know I wouldn't like to rely on it to home anyone to my dinghy in less than a fortnight.
C+C in a major incident - unless C130's load some sort of special pallet full of control stations then Nimrod's TAC area wins hands down. Radios - not just about having them, it's the ability to use them - a Nimrod crew has 5 fully trained radio operators (ok, 4 plus the AEO, but they get shirty if not included), who spend a LOT of time training for SAR incidents (it's a pass/fail item on CAT checks) and three officers in a tac area custom made for controlling other assets... backed up by some of the siggies on occasion.
Radar: Nimrods have a fully trained, highly experienced operator with (probably) several thousand flying hours working the radar, rotating operators to maintain efficiency - sometimes a second operator will be over the radar op's shoulder, making sure things aren't missed. Will the C130 have a trained radar operator working the kit? I will bet you anything you like that Searchwater is a far more capable surface search radar than - well, any other radar you care to name, actually. It will find small things a very long way away - I have no desire to outline sensor performance, but you are betting against 4 aces.
Crew:
I don't doubt for a moment that, given the job to do, everyone on the herc fleet could do just as well as the Nimrod guys given the same equipment and the same time to train, but to suggest that the 130 guys can just slot into a place oocupied by people who are fully trained in the field, working equipment ideally suited to the role, is silly. I mean that - I'll go further, brit aircrew are damn good whether they're light blue, dark blue, or green, and such highly motivated and well educated people will do a good job given half a chance in any circumstance - but nobody is going to just pick up a role in no time flat and be anywhere near as good in it as people who have been doing it for decades.... and a lot of people on the kipper fleet regard retiring at the 22 year point as 'part timers'. Mick Muttitt had, I think, 19,000 flying hours in as a siggie when he retired (and allegedly started getting younger again - rumour has it that there's a painting of him in handbrake house that makes him look 97+ and ages daily). How can you replace that sort of experience overnight?
The current RAF have very few platforms that can do each others jobs to anything approaching the same degree of ability - it's pretty much the same across all three services - a gap of this nature means a significant reduction in coverage of that role, and I'd argue that should our political leadership decide to gap any of the overworked platforms now holding UK PLC together on the defence front.
It's not about a pi$$ing contest, it's simply that the Nimrod is designed for ASW/ASUW which conveniently makes it very good at SAR, a herc is designed as a transport aircraft and SAR is very much a secondary role (unless we're talking special fit, tasked for SAR primary, 130's). Nimrod crews would be crepe at delivering freight. Just as they would be lousy at dunking, which is why God made RN helos.
Happy Christmas
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I wasn't trying to start a wee weeing contest when I started this thread.
The Nimrod fleet has been rogered by (Delete as you see fit) DefSec; MOD; RAF.
I imagine that the reason is primarly financial, with a hefty dollop of fear - that is to say that another catastrophy would be terminally embarrassing to this at the top - so the easy way out is to trash the fleet.
Faced with that decision as a given - however crass it seems, what possible options are there left to provide some kind of cover for the lost capabilities?
Sticking plaster SAR. Forget ASuW unless a couple of AGM 84s can be grafted onto something (I remember the Sidewinder equipped Nimrods). ASW???
C&C - If the Sentry isn't capable, then someone must have missed a trick (or believed that the Nimrod would be around for ever).
I wonder if there will be a junket / research mission to the USCG to see how they do things? Has anyone done an exchange with them?
The Nimrod fleet has been rogered by (Delete as you see fit) DefSec; MOD; RAF.
I imagine that the reason is primarly financial, with a hefty dollop of fear - that is to say that another catastrophy would be terminally embarrassing to this at the top - so the easy way out is to trash the fleet.
Faced with that decision as a given - however crass it seems, what possible options are there left to provide some kind of cover for the lost capabilities?
Sticking plaster SAR. Forget ASuW unless a couple of AGM 84s can be grafted onto something (I remember the Sidewinder equipped Nimrods). ASW???
C&C - If the Sentry isn't capable, then someone must have missed a trick (or believed that the Nimrod would be around for ever).
I wonder if there will be a junket / research mission to the USCG to see how they do things? Has anyone done an exchange with them?
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Sentry/C+C,
yes, you'd rather hope they could do that wouldn't you? Unfortunately it's back to whether we had the airframes available for the role, given that SAR involved having a Nimrod sitting preflighted on the pan 24/7/365. Same problem for C130's I'd have thought - I think I read somewhere the other day that 9 MRA4's were going to replace 15 MR2's, which is perhaps the case now but there were rather more of them originally! (The MR1 fleet probably outnumbers the current RAF). Platforms that aren't exactly plentiful being asked to do somebody else's job as well as their own.... can you imagine ity in civvy street? I say Boggs, whenever you aren't too busy delivering the mail would you mind putting out any fires you happen across?
Personally I think the replacement SAR aircraft for the Nimrod needs to be something that is largely designed with SAR in mind - that might be a BN Islander with extra gun turrets for all I know, but I suspect it won't be any cheaper in the medium term, never mind the long run.
yes, you'd rather hope they could do that wouldn't you? Unfortunately it's back to whether we had the airframes available for the role, given that SAR involved having a Nimrod sitting preflighted on the pan 24/7/365. Same problem for C130's I'd have thought - I think I read somewhere the other day that 9 MRA4's were going to replace 15 MR2's, which is perhaps the case now but there were rather more of them originally! (The MR1 fleet probably outnumbers the current RAF). Platforms that aren't exactly plentiful being asked to do somebody else's job as well as their own.... can you imagine ity in civvy street? I say Boggs, whenever you aren't too busy delivering the mail would you mind putting out any fires you happen across?
Personally I think the replacement SAR aircraft for the Nimrod needs to be something that is largely designed with SAR in mind - that might be a BN Islander with extra gun turrets for all I know, but I suspect it won't be any cheaper in the medium term, never mind the long run.
Champagne anyone...?
At the risk of boring myself let alone anyone else trawling through this may I please reiterate that I am in no way "defending" or promoting the Herc SAR role/capability. A quick psychic straw poll conducted on all Lyneham personnel just now revealed that 117.4% of us have absolutely no desire or interest in being involved in UK SAR standby and all that that includes. Common sense would seem to dictate that the big 4 jet designed to specifically to do all that gubbins is best suited to, er, doing it.
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth....
The clever SAR capable 'plane is no longer available due to a combination of us having no money and the planes being knackered. If we accept that that is now a given then we must look elsewhere to plug the gap until the MRA4 arrives. Without buying new aircraft, please now form a list of vaguely suitable RAF/RN aircraft types that might be able to fill in in some capacity. I'll start you off:
C130
Merlin
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth....
The clever SAR capable 'plane is no longer available due to a combination of us having no money and the planes being knackered. If we accept that that is now a given then we must look elsewhere to plug the gap until the MRA4 arrives. Without buying new aircraft, please now form a list of vaguely suitable RAF/RN aircraft types that might be able to fill in in some capacity. I'll start you off:
C130
Merlin
So well put young Dave......well you were young when I was flying with you!!!! Having flown both types in the SAR role, the mighty hunter out of Kinloss and the C130 out of MPA I hear what you are saying, I also hear what the others are saying too.....They know they cannot fulfill the role of the Nimrod and dont really want to try it let alone be good at it. Them guys are flying their butts off and can just imagine the responce when arriving back from in theatre ops to be told oh you are now on SAR standby as everyone else is busy. To hold that and QRA would be just too much and what role would the aircraft be kept in SAR and QRA would not be compatible so that would involve the role equipers as well. lets not get involved in a bun fight, we are all on the same side and we all must just wonder at the decisions being made up top......maybe a few of our leaders resigning may help but knowing how the UK Gov work they would probably applaud. Keep on writing, someone may read and realise how wrong they can be.well it is Xmas anything can happen.
Fly safe all you guys that are still flying and have fun when you are not. P3's look after me down here and we send our Coastguard out when we need to in their rubber boats as long as they are within 38 miles for my local unit.
Regards to all
Fergi
Fly safe all you guys that are still flying and have fun when you are not. P3's look after me down here and we send our Coastguard out when we need to in their rubber boats as long as they are within 38 miles for my local unit.
Regards to all
Fergi
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK, sometimes!
Age: 74
Posts: 436
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VecVecPrickTalks****...
You either do not know what I mean by MCT or you are a total troll - I'll put my money on both.
One day you will astound the PPruNe community by actually typing something that isn't total bollox - but I won't hold my breath
MadMark!!!
It would be nice to see a Nimrod conducting MCT....not sure they have the capability (or the desire)
One day you will astound the PPruNe community by actually typing something that isn't total bollox - but I won't hold my breath
MadMark!!!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Falmouth
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The Nimrod fleet has been rogered by (Delete as you see fit) DefSec; MOD; RAF.
Delete MOD........ They didn't do it....they merely went on advice given
That leaves RAF..... The suggested it, they offered it.
MM...Having spent a great deal of time conducting MCT I can count on one hand,.... nope...make that 2 fingers, the times when a Nimrod saw fit to get involved....and during one of those times they completely buggered it up to such a degree that the AFAC told them to RTB before they caused an accident.