Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

PM to order £1.5bn defence cuts

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

PM to order £1.5bn defence cuts

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 15th Dec 2009, 15:04
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: scotland
Posts: 547
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
When asked who would provide Maritime cover' to submarines he replied the CAS was consulted and that there were other platforms, ie Merlin and C130. Where are we getting the Hercs from and can they really provide this kind of cover. Unbelievable, 36 years in and I am embarrassed.
KPax is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 15:24
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SOMEWHERE
Posts: 289
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well Wittering will have fun getting aircraft airbourne, Cottesmore ATC does their APP/DEP, only got talkdown at Wittering, more money to be wasted moving the kit(Watchman, SSR,TACAN) down the road !

scarecrow450 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 15:35
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Blighty
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hercs have always had a Longe Range Maritine SAR capability and as such can be put on standby in the same way the Nimrod forces are to cover this commitment.

Although i'll not be going sailing more than a 1hr helicopter journey away from the uk....
getsometimein is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 15:46
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,371
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So, Cottesmore closes and everything moves to Wittering.

Does that mean the Harrier will disband in 2012. If not Mr Dennis (and his solicitors) may be knocking on the MODs door (unless this has all been resolved ....). Click here and here. The award was made on the basis that flying out of Wittering will cease in 2012.

money to be wasted moving the kit(Watchman, SSR,TACAN) down the road
Won't they be able to operate the consols remotely from Wittering and leave the transmitters in place?
Wrathmonk is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 15:56
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 146 Likes on 28 Posts
In view of recent press articles on the exploitation of the 60 bn barrels of oil around the Falkland Isles, shouldn't we be ensuring that there's adequate forces to protect it, rather than allowing any neighbouring countries to enrich themselves if they decided to mount another hostile takeover bid?
Ken Scott is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 15:58
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: uk
Age: 50
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Many MP's have now asked for the chinook to be made uner license from AW, are they mad, how much did AW cream off the Apache deal and after the 12 months flight testing AW would take you would still be no closer. I should be supporting a UK industry but sometimes i struggle. Not a lot has been mentioned of the fact that with new Chinooks the future medium lift capability will be carried out by already bought Merlins and not the new ones AW thought it would be building. Take into account the cancelled 101 order from the US??
Misformonkey is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 17:32
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: E MIDLANDS
Posts: 291
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
From the MoD website:

The Navy's older Lynx and Merlin Mk1 helicopters will be retired sooner than planned prior to the transition to the more capable Wildcat and Merlin Mk2 as part of the new helicopter strategy.

Can someone enlighten me on the Merlin Mk 2 please - first I've heard of it.
andyy is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 17:41
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SOMEWHERE
Posts: 289
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No they need the consols(well pc screens) at Wittering, don't think they could build an industrial estate around the twr ? Can't have buildings too near the radar heads. They'll only sue the mod !!
scarecrow450 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 17:43
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Falmouth
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Can someone enlighten me on the Merlin Mk 2 please - first I've heard of it.

Merlin CSP......


Navy Matters | Merlin HM.1
vecvechookattack is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 17:53
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What about our SAR helo mates? Given that MR2 will be no more from 2010 how do you feel about having to rely on the herc for top cover and co-ord on long range SAR jobs? I really really think that this has not been thought through at all. As for Merlin covering UK wide ASW..........
grousehunter is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 17:55
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: E MIDLANDS
Posts: 291
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Thanks for that, but the Merlin CSP appears to be an upgrade of existing Mk1s - doesn't quite square with the announcement that Merlin Mk1 is going to be retired early as Merlin Mk2 (and Wildcat) is more capable.
andyy is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 18:02
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Another S**thole
Age: 51
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What about our SAR helo mates? Given that MR2 will be no more from 2010 how do you feel about having to rely on the herc for top cover and co-ord on long range SAR jobs? I really really think that this has not been thought through at all. As for Merlin covering UK wide ASW..........
Which C130 would that be then?

C130K OSD 2012 and reducing.

C130J no external tanks, reduced endurance and heavily tasked in Afghanistan!

No fixed wing SAR cover and no ASW

Great for an island nation.. keep any eye on the South American elections and the rumour of a massing Argentine Naval Fleet for a show of force down south!!!
Blighter Pilot is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 18:05
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 3,225
Received 172 Likes on 65 Posts
When asked who would provide Maritime cover' to submarines he replied the CAS was consulted and that there were other platforms, ie Merlin and C130. Where are we getting the Hercs from and can they really provide this kind of cover. Unbelievable, 36 years in and I am embarrassed.
Never fear. For many years I had a letter on my wall from a Gp Capt supplier (DDSM 11 I think) assuring me that Hercules did indeed have an Active Dipping Sonar, so I was quite wrong to complain he was wasting money buying ADS spares for his fleet. Seems he was right all along, but I fear the winches and cables may be a bit rusty after so little use. As for the Submersible Units, I'm told they are streamlined these days because C130 uses too much fuel in the hover.
tucumseh is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 18:15
  #54 (permalink)  
Gnd
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 58
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well at least the early lack of grey Lynx and Seakings will make room for the Wildcat at VL.
Gnd is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 18:17
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Falmouth
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Do you think that is why the LHF offered up the Grey Lynx...????
vecvechookattack is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 18:21
  #56 (permalink)  
Gnd
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 58
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
possibly, seems sencible - will they bring it (wildcat HMA) forward is a better question and how will that ease the sim problems??
Gnd is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 20:01
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: England
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If anyone wants to listen, I have the answer!

A few years ago I got a single bolt from stores, at £165 ea I felt this was a tadd steep. I submitted a 'price challenge' form and overnight the cost of the item was ammended to £5.

WHY? I hear you ask. Well I will tell you, we have officers with no training in business signing our contracts. The civilian companies inflate the price of all items bought by the military for 2 years in order to pay for design / testing costs.

Why 2 years? It is no coincidence! They know that officers are posted on average every 2 years so they set a review date after the person who contracted the item is posted knowing that the next young chappie will want to start a fresh new project to look good on his/her OJAR, rather than reviewing all the boring old contracts that we are paying through the nose for!

The Answer......

1. Get rid of the officers who currently seek contracts with our civilian counterparts,

2. Put educated business people in their place as a primary role in order to keep continuity.

3. Review all contracts to date and make sure we are paying the actual cost of the item rather than the 2 year inflated price.

4. Stop going for the big publicity buy closing one of our valued RAF bases, cutting numbers etc. and take stock of your own ineptitude and serious business failings !
time to get out is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 20:20
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
... the Merlin CSP appears to be an upgrade of existing Mk1s - doesn't quite square with the announcement that Merlin Mk1 is going to be retired early as Merlin Mk2 (and Wildcat) is more capable.
30 out of 38 HM1s are being upgraded to Mk2 through CSP, not retired or replaced - MoD PR mistake.
mick2088 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 20:39
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Among these dark Satanic mills
Posts: 1,197
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
how do you feel about having to rely on the herc for top cover and co-ord on long range SAR jobs?
Very unhappy - your point is spot on, as Nimrods have proved vital on numerous SAROps. But I don't think you will hear many SARPeeps complaining on here, as other people are shafted far more by today's news than us. The inconvenience and risk which SAR crews will face in a Top-Cover-free future (no offence Herc chums - you just seem to be pretty busy already doing AT tasks to take on 24-hr SAR cover, and without major mods a Herc is no match for a Nimrod in the SAR role) pale into insignificance beside the inconvenience and risks now faced by submarine crews. Or Nimrod crews.
TorqueOfTheDevil is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2009, 21:11
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MARS
Posts: 1,102
Received 10 Likes on 4 Posts
I am surprised that it has taken this long to get to this stage and I doubt it will be ending here. For those who have not read Bernard Gray's report, I recommend it. It sets out quite clearly where most of the blame lies.

http://www.aof.mod.uk/aofcontent/dow...ray_report.pdf
Widger is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.