PM to order £1.5bn defence cuts
Giving money away to the undeveloped CO2 emitters at a time when for the same money we close important airbases STINKS.
Don't we have people in Whitehall who can stand upto this charade of a government.
Don't we have people in Whitehall who can stand upto this charade of a government.
Stargazing
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From the BBC News Site
"Bob Ainsworth is set to announce the closure of an RAF base - understood to be RAF Cottesmore in Rutland - and the loss of thousands of jobs. The first of the new helicopters are expected to be ready in 2012. Ex-Defence Secretary Malcolm Rifkind said it was dangerous to cut core budgets to fund the Afghan conflict. The Harriers based at RAF Cottesmore will move to RAF Wittering before being phased out of service altogether, earlier than planned. The Tornado force based at RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Marham in Norfolk will also lose one squadron and it is thought parts of RAF Kinloss, in Moray, could be mothballed.
Mr Ainsworth's announcement comes after months of criticism over the number of helicopters in operation in Helmand, in Afghanistan. The first 10 new Chinooks, made by Boeing, will start to roll off the production line in 2012. In total, the Chinook fleet will increase in size from 48 to 70. Mr Ainsworth said: "Helicopter capability has already doubled in the last three years and this future strategy builds on this, ensuring that our armed forces have the very best resources at their disposal." Commander Joint Helicopter Command, Rear Admiral Tony Johnstone-Burt, said Chinooks had proved "invaluable" on operations, saying: "This new strategy will dramatically increase our military capability on the battlefield for many years to come."
The RAF will fly the Chinooks in Afghanistan alongside Merlin helicopters which arrived in the country last month. Their arrival will mean the ageing Sea Kings, used by the RAF and Royal Navy, can be retired early. An extra C17 transport plane could also be on the cards."
BBC News - Job cut fears as new Chinooks ordered for Afghanistan
Mr Ainsworth's announcement comes after months of criticism over the number of helicopters in operation in Helmand, in Afghanistan. The first 10 new Chinooks, made by Boeing, will start to roll off the production line in 2012. In total, the Chinook fleet will increase in size from 48 to 70. Mr Ainsworth said: "Helicopter capability has already doubled in the last three years and this future strategy builds on this, ensuring that our armed forces have the very best resources at their disposal." Commander Joint Helicopter Command, Rear Admiral Tony Johnstone-Burt, said Chinooks had proved "invaluable" on operations, saying: "This new strategy will dramatically increase our military capability on the battlefield for many years to come."
The RAF will fly the Chinooks in Afghanistan alongside Merlin helicopters which arrived in the country last month. Their arrival will mean the ageing Sea Kings, used by the RAF and Royal Navy, can be retired early. An extra C17 transport plane could also be on the cards."
BBC News - Job cut fears as new Chinooks ordered for Afghanistan
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22 More Chinooks!
They'll probably roll off the production line in time to be sent back for cockpit upgrade.
Last edited by WASALOADIE; 15th Dec 2009 at 11:10. Reason: spelling
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So do you think these ones will be delivered to a secret airbase near Salisbury to mature in a hangar like a fine wine over the next few years.... now they have had a clearout of the last lot....
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First big issue, exactly what cockpit configuration will be specified for any new build Wokkas. Hardly likely Boeing will have the kit or will to match the current UK configuration. How affordable, in our current situation, is the proposed cockpit upgrade for the current in-service airframes that could, potentially, be matched with new build items?
Not for the first time, the procurers will shortly see the cans of worms springing open.
lm
Not for the first time, the procurers will shortly see the cans of worms springing open.
lm
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So does this mean all the Merlins will be going to the FAA, much like an unwanted xmas present? And it is a good job we have all these spare Chinook crews lying around just waiting for an airframe..... 
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The rather vague MoD press release states "The new strategy will see the ageing Sea Kings, which the Royal Navy and RAF currently use, being taken out of service early. The Navy’s future helicopter requirements will be met by a combination of the Merlin fleet and new Wildcat. The Army will also operate Wildcat alongside the hugely successful Apache. It will mean that following the retirement of Puma from 2022, the UK’s Armed Forces will operate four core helicopter fleets of Chinook, Apache, Wildcat and Merlin – each of around 65-75 aircraft."
I'd assume by the "The Navy’s future helicopter requirements will be met by a combination of the Merlin fleet and new Wildcat." that they mean some RAF Merlins will be transferred to replace the Sea King, surely not just a combination of ASW Merlins and Wildcats???
I'd assume by the "The Navy’s future helicopter requirements will be met by a combination of the Merlin fleet and new Wildcat." that they mean some RAF Merlins will be transferred to replace the Sea King, surely not just a combination of ASW Merlins and Wildcats???
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Davis was in front of the defence comittee and he hinted at the merlins being Maritimised but nothing definite. The whole of the pinger fleet won't be upgraded!
Last edited by NURSE; 15th Dec 2009 at 13:10.
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Gents this rolling goat **** that some laughably call the government have shafted us all, it is only now that the chickens are flying home to roost....
Expect pain.
My advice to you all is bail at the first chance you get because this is going to be bloody messy
Expect pain.
My advice to you all is bail at the first chance you get because this is going to be bloody messy
My information may be out of date, but I've long been unable to shake the impression that a large degree of the reason for defence overspend in the UK is because the MoD's procurement procedures are intended to be the comic relief for the otherwise grim business of war. This is all secondhand information and I post it here knowing I may be shot down horribly.
I have a close relative who worked for a major MoD contractor during the 80s and 90s, and his friends who are still in the business report that contractors still profiteer to the point of insanity, deliver late, and in turn are messed about by the MoD in terms of constantly changing specifications and nonsensical requirements.
Obviously there's two sides to every coin but it's hard to conclude that something like Typhoon would not have been available faster for less money to a better spec if most of the 1990s hadn't been spent arguing with "partner nations" over how the thing was supposed to work. Considering it's based on a British fuselage design using British engines you'd be forgiven for wondering why we didn't just build the damn things and if anyone else had wanted them, we could have sold them, and there'd have been far less bitching about workshare. I could give other examples of silliness but at this scale it costs billions and that's not funny.
In short I suspect that the MoD could save 1.5bn just by not being grotesquely silly in the way they buy things.
I have a close relative who worked for a major MoD contractor during the 80s and 90s, and his friends who are still in the business report that contractors still profiteer to the point of insanity, deliver late, and in turn are messed about by the MoD in terms of constantly changing specifications and nonsensical requirements.
Obviously there's two sides to every coin but it's hard to conclude that something like Typhoon would not have been available faster for less money to a better spec if most of the 1990s hadn't been spent arguing with "partner nations" over how the thing was supposed to work. Considering it's based on a British fuselage design using British engines you'd be forgiven for wondering why we didn't just build the damn things and if anyone else had wanted them, we could have sold them, and there'd have been far less bitching about workshare. I could give other examples of silliness but at this scale it costs billions and that's not funny.
In short I suspect that the MoD could save 1.5bn just by not being grotesquely silly in the way they buy things.
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Defence cuts
I know that a lot of money is required to maintain the stability of our country but priorities should be -
Defence of the country
Health of all citizens
Good education for all
I am saying this because I was a 15 year old at the start of WW2 so I can have an opinion on what our people need.
Defence of the country
Health of all citizens
Good education for all
I am saying this because I was a 15 year old at the start of WW2 so I can have an opinion on what our people need.
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Hugh...
I'd vote for you 
I know that a lot of money is required to maintain the stability of our country but priorities should be -
Defence of the country
Health of all citizens
Good education for all
Defence of the country
Health of all citizens
Good education for all
Phil R
This isn't speculation, but a simple statement of fact!!
Unfortunately, as I've said here many times, those who dare voice this opinion in MoD or, God forbid, actually prove it, are treated as lepers.
In short I suspect that the MoD could save 1.5bn just by not being grotesquely silly in the way they buy things.
This isn't speculation, but a simple statement of fact!!
Unfortunately, as I've said here many times, those who dare voice this opinion in MoD or, God forbid, actually prove it, are treated as lepers.
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"Bob says", if I heard all of it right:
- No money to be cut from 2010/11 budget
- Reform of defence acquisition planned
- £900 m of enhancements: improved dismounted infantry equipment to be expanded, more Bowman, £80 m for special forces communications, more money for ISTAR, doubling Reaper availability, more money for C-IED
- Extra C-17 to be ordered
- 22 Chinooks - first ten in 2012/2013
- Treasury to pay £280 m for more new vehicles for deployment in Afghanistan, C-IED equipment
- Typhoon phase 2 enhancement to be pursued
- Harrier fleet to be reduced by one sqn. Cottesmore to close.
- Plan to further reduce Tornado/Harrier fleet to be announced in Strategic Defence Review
- Nimrod MR2 to be withdrawn 12 months early; MRA4 introduction into service to be slowed
- plans to temporary reduce some Army training
- 1 survey vessel and one mine hunter to be withdrawn from RN service
- unprotected utility vehicle competition (OUVS?) to be delayed, didn't hear that bit.
- No money to be cut from 2010/11 budget
- Reform of defence acquisition planned
- £900 m of enhancements: improved dismounted infantry equipment to be expanded, more Bowman, £80 m for special forces communications, more money for ISTAR, doubling Reaper availability, more money for C-IED
- Extra C-17 to be ordered
- 22 Chinooks - first ten in 2012/2013
- Treasury to pay £280 m for more new vehicles for deployment in Afghanistan, C-IED equipment
- Typhoon phase 2 enhancement to be pursued
- Harrier fleet to be reduced by one sqn. Cottesmore to close.
- Plan to further reduce Tornado/Harrier fleet to be announced in Strategic Defence Review
- Nimrod MR2 to be withdrawn 12 months early; MRA4 introduction into service to be slowed
- plans to temporary reduce some Army training
- 1 survey vessel and one mine hunter to be withdrawn from RN service
- unprotected utility vehicle competition (OUVS?) to be delayed, didn't hear that bit.