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-   -   PM to order £1.5bn defence cuts (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/398889-pm-order-1-5bn-defence-cuts.html)

ORAC 14th Dec 2009 12:41

PM to order £1.5bn defence cuts
 
So, what the implications, if any, of the early Nimrod rundown?

FT: PM to order £1.5bn defence cuts

Gordon Brown is to approve about £1.5bn of cuts to "low priority" defence projects over the next three years as part of a reform package that will shift resources to Afghanistan and ease the crippling defence budget shortfall.

Final details are still under negotiation but the measures will include cuts to the existing Harrier and Tornado fighter jet fleet, an early drawdown of Nimrod reconnaissance aircraft and thousands of staff cuts across the armed forces and Whitehall.

The sacrifices will be offset by moves to boost spending on critical frontline equipment for the Afghan campaign. The prime minister, who visited troops in Afghanistan at the weekend, will fast track an order for at least 20 Chinook heavy-lift helicopters and purchase new surveillance systems to counter roadside bombs, additional fighting vehicles, and one more C-17 transport aircraft. Defence insiders insisted the additional kit would have been unaffordable without cuts elsewhere.

The Royal Air Force is expected to bear the brunt of what one industry executive described as a "gruesome" budget planning round for 2010 but the Royal Navy will also take a survey ship and mine hunter out of service early.....

The Ministry of Defence is expected to be forced to make much bigger sacrifices after the strategic defence review, including significant reductions in the order for Joint Strike Fighter jets. Although the exact numbers are yet to be decided, the cuts to the Tornado and Harrier fleet and the early withdrawal of the ageing Nimrod are bound to threaten the future of several large air bases.

The services and MoD are also pressing to whittle down the numbers of staff in low-priority areas, which will amount to job losses for thousands of civilian and uniformed personnel.

The order for the Boeing-made Chinooks, worth up to £1bn in additional MoD spending, will be spread over 10 years, but some new helicopters could be available for Afghanistan within a year or two. Funding for the helicopters will be partly taken from the cancellation of the Future Medium Helicopter programme, which was supposed to replace the UK's ageing Sea King and Puma fleets.

The purchase of the additional C17 from Boeing is partly in response to growing demand for airlift capability for Afghanistan. However, defence insiders insisted it did not signal that Britain would scale back its order of the Airbus A400M transport aircraft, which made its maiden flight last week.

TheSmiter 14th Dec 2009 13:19

Thanks for the heads up ORAC, although the outcome of PR10 has been widely anticipated, the timing of the announcement is just the nicest Christmas present from this so-called Govt.

Absolutely nothing they do surprises me anymore. I particularly like one quote in the full article:


"This is not about spending cuts" said one Whitehall figure "The defence budget will rise in line with inflation. It is about getting an overspent programme into shape and aligned with our strategic priorities for defence."
If I've learnt one thing in my career it's that when someone says "This is not about spending cuts" , that's absolutely what it's about.

And as for 'Strategic priorities', perhaps somebody more generous than I would like to lend a copy of the OED to somebody in Whitehall. I don't believe anyone in this Govt, from the top down, has the faintest idea what the word strategy means..............

It could of course be that the overall plan is to dismantle the Armed Forces, in which case they're doing a fantastic job!

Scotteo 14th Dec 2009 13:27


..."Defence officials say savings were identified on the basis there would be no impact on the frontline and that no decisions should pre-empt the strategic defence review next year."
But what about the UK's defence? Even if cost cuttings do not affect front-line operations (which I thoroughly doubt) then surely it will effect the way in which Britain protects it's skies?

Although our terror level has been downgraded from "severe" to "substantial" on the Sesame Street easy learn terror chart;

"The day you crash the family car is the day the insurance runs out"

(A quote I've read, probably from pprune.org on the same issue, but one that rings true and has stuck with me since)

May aswell keep our pants firmly round our ankles, pass out free boots and directions to our opposers, and clench real hard.

TheSmiter 14th Dec 2009 13:49

ORAC asked


So, what the implications, if any, of the early Nimrod rundown?

Possibly a lot of well-kept gardens in Moray and increased profits for the Solicitors Property Centre (other estate agents are available)

Just a wild guess.:\

Finnpog 14th Dec 2009 15:39

20 more Chinooks?
 
Whatever is the monocular one doing, wasting money on these totally unnecessary helicopters.

He should be birched for financial incompetence in pushing this purchase.

After all, has he not insisted in the face of strong challenge for the last n months that the military have more than sufficient numbers of whirlybirds?

He wasn't lying then, was he?

Jimmy Macintosh 14th Dec 2009 15:52

It won't be long before the Tamil Tigers will be able to attack the UK :( (granted it'll need a coouple of friendly nations in which it could do some stop overs)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...ircraft416.gif

tucumseh 14th Dec 2009 16:05


The order for the Boeing-made Chinooks, worth up to £1bn in additional MoD spending, will be spread over 10 years, but some new helicopters could be available for Afghanistan within a year or two.

The "new" (10 years old but virginal) Chinook Mk3s?



within a year or two
Someone should tell him to press "zoom" on the Gantt chart or is this the new acquistion terminology for "We haven't a clue"?

Biggus 14th Dec 2009 16:24

Given that there are only two working days of the parliamentary year left, if anything is to be announced formally in the House, as opposed to being leaked, or "you-tubed", or stated on a Sunday morning couch session with Andrew Marr, then we won't have long to wait before all this speculation becomes a certainty!

dinoorin 14th Dec 2009 17:19

presumably this £1.5Bn defence cut is to pay for this;
UK pledges climate aid for developing countries | Number10.gov.uk

Seems we still have enough money to give away - just not to our own guys and girls:ugh:

mtoroshanga 14th Dec 2009 18:13

Brown in Afghanastan
 
Did I hear correctly or did he say that part of the budget applied to combat road side improvised explosives is to go towards their composition etc. What awaste of money is that, another office full of mates who can milk it for everything they can. Talk to the South Africans, they will tell you all you need to know and get rid of the dross this useless 'governmant' lumbers us with!!

BackfromIraq 14th Dec 2009 20:07

The same man who promised to donate £1.5 billion to a fund to combat the effects of an arguable disaster caused by arguable climate change.

France and Germany have each contributed only £1.2 billion although they are in far better shape than this poor, bankrupt country with its corrupt, self-serving politicians.

How much are the other 24 EU countries going to contribute? Very little I suspect.

Charity begins at home: I don't see homeless people playing the big man in the street: they're asking for money not giving it away. We need to be strong, not consistently weakened by people who are only trying to buy votes.

Hoots 14th Dec 2009 20:48

Nice of someone to leak the early retirement of the Nimrod rumour when Kinloss is on AOC's standown, perfect timing. Doesn't cause the workers or their families any concern whatsoever.

So how was this leaked before any official statement? Was it deliberate, is it just more government spin in action as they hit the headlines with the extra £150m for counter IED's (which I have no issue with, as some state why not sooner). Be good of the PM to pay a visit to the North to explain his contempt for Defence overall.

L J R 15th Dec 2009 05:31

Will the majority of the Forres community now move to the leafy suburbs of Las Vegas? Was that one of those 'Drones' I've heard about that the PM did an interview in front of?

TheSmiter 15th Dec 2009 06:44

Budgets for Dummies
 
Charity £1.5 Bn

Defence -£1.5Bn


Bottom Line £0.0

Seemples

PS Please Mr Brown, can I be Chancellor next?

Caspian237 15th Dec 2009 08:59

For gods sake we already have more troops in Afghanistan than the next two contributors combined (albeit a tiny fraction compared to the US forces, but then it's their bloody war.)

We shouldn't be spending billions of pounds buying new equipment for more troops, we should be drawing down troop numbers to a level that we can afford. If that means other nations taking up some of the slack, then so be it!

We need our armed forces to be geared towards the UK's interests, not to be tailored to what the Americans will find the most useful.

mick2088 15th Dec 2009 09:39

Not a cut as such with announcements expected shortly, but they have just announced that they are buying 22 new Chinooks. First ten to be delivered in 2012-2013. Sea King LEP abandoned.

Bismark 15th Dec 2009 09:46

How many more cuts to the front line jet fleet are we going to have to endure to maintain things like the RAFAT and QCS? It is a disgrace.

Climebear 15th Dec 2009 10:20

Bismark

By QCS I assume you are referring to 63 Sqn RAF Regt who have just returned from Op HERRICK.

QCS (63 Sqn RAF Regt) deploy on Ops like every other Regt Field Sqn. Like every other RAF Regt Sqn the harmony targets appear to be a distant aspiration. The only difference is that QCS do all the Smart Blue stuff in between dets. (Cermonial duties are covered by another RAF Regt Field Sqn (also on the Op cycle) when QCS are deployed).

So good call then - let's cut a unit that regularly deploys on Ops :ugh:

Bismark 15th Dec 2009 10:33

Climbear,

Or start calling them 63 Sqn RAF regt and the issue of criticism will not arise.

Climebear 15th Dec 2009 10:38

Ah so you based your recommendation on a name rather than any knowledge of operational effect. Are you in the Government?


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