Pontius Navigator

It also depends if there is anything for you to fall back to.

Whilst chopped fast jet just might get you METS or RW it is as likely to get you WSO.

Chopped WSO is more likely to get you Provost or Regt than ATC or FC as they are assessed as requiring similar skill sets to pilot/WSO.

As there are few WSO slots in the first place it really is in the lap of the Gods with pros and cons for putting a chopped pilot ahead of a straight-in WSO. As a chopped pilot you would have acquired some, albeit limited, airmanship skills, OTOH you have also demonstrated a number of weaknesses.

75% of my nav course a few years ago were chopped pilots. Their final disposal was Canberra (360 Sqn), Eng, Supply, Provost and Regt. The two straight-in navs both got GR1s.

But hey, think positive. Some get straight through and get GR7/9s.

Lukesdad

Pontius

Thanks, as ever a definitive answer.

Much obliged.

jonesthepilot

Being chopped is a complete lottery. Chopped off FJ and short of rotary? Off to Shawbury you go. Not short of rotary? Don't fancy becoming an Adminer as thats all thats on offer, then off you go ex Fg Off. I've seen some good guys go to civvy street because they got chopped at the wrong time. A lot of money has been wasted over the years because of the ' wrong time, wrong place' mentality and perhaps ( I hate to say it) the bean counters should get involved.

Lukesdad

Jones, I suppose I had imagined that our armed forces and their use of talented young pilots would have involved some joined up thinking..................obviously not.

Pontius Navigator

I was starting off with attempted humour but the following is arguably better for your answer.

We have a projected into service figure for a trade a couple of years hence. We recruit to meet that target allowing for the historic wastage - eg FJ pilots 20%, WSO 10%, FC 75% (made these up). Where quotas are low we get a good number of high quality applicants. Some of these may be a really good batch so the wastage rates are low, too many move forward in the system and have to hold until training slots become available.

It is expensive but we bear the costs of 'holding' successful trainees. Those that are chopped from one course become a high cost liability for holding compared with their successful colleagues. We have a limited budget so we have to let those weaker candidates go. If we were short in some areas then we could take the risk of trying to interest them in that area.

Sometimes recruiters have been known to mis-sell and put commissionable candidates into non-commissioned jobs simply because there is a slot and other quotas are full.

Roland Pulfrew

But then again all cases of "chopees" are treated on merit. You may have seen some "good guys" go to civvy street but that is ultimately their choice. If they do not want to accept what else is on offer, and (trust me on this) if someone is not offered an alternative stream it is more likely to be down to their piloting skills than a shortage, or not, in other streams.

Lukesdad - don't take all you read on these forums as gospel.

Lukesdad

Thanks everyone, it does sound as if you all agree that if you are in the top of the ability/performance range as far as flying is concerned you have nothing to fear. But trainee pilots at the lower end of the range do run the risk of being dropped at any stage of the flight training phase.

Life appears to be tough for RAF would be pilots, tough to get in, tough to get on.

Oh, and I'm asking the questions because 'Luke' is a little busy at the moment.

PPRuNeUser0211

Roland...

Whilst largely the case, this is not always true! Believe me, having spent far too much time at a top secret well equipped training base somewhere in N Yorks it can very much be a case of "Sorry, wrong place wrong time..."

ProfessionalStudent

Are Tincan refreshers still being chopped if they don't do as well as expected?

Utterly wrong, especially if any of them do not get re-streamed.

BluntedAtBirth

It is not a good thing to get chopped during a 'drawdown' period. For example, in the last couple of years there have, on occasion, not even been Ground Branch trg slots for former aircrew trainees to compete for. Note the use of the word compete - nothing has been a 'given' recently. There have not even been PC slots available for short-service officers of proven ability to stay in.

I remember the same thing happening in the mid 90s, and I am sure it happened in the mid 70s as well. On a cheerier note, the worst would now appear to be over and normality, in the broadest sence of the word, is now returning.

PPRuNeUser0211

Pro-stude, Not heard of anyone being chopped on refresher for a couple of years, mostly due to the re-streaming (sorry "role confirmation") sending people elsewhere. Chop rates are also down at valley (came as a surprise to TGDA that one! had to introduce even more re-streaming to cover it!)

but as noted "normality" is almost back, as fewer and fewer people are getting re-streamed, and it appears to be less arbitrary than in the past, but the numbers coming into linton are down to the required levels and the holds between linton and valley are nigh on sensible!

Rocka

Hi guys and gals ,
As you can see this is my first post on here :P I’ve been following the forums for a while though and I hope you can help me clear up a small issue on training post selection for pilot. (I have an application rolling, video presentation on the 7th of December.)
Is JEFTS at RAF Barkston Heath now EFT at Cranwell, Wyton and Church Fenton on the tutor rather than the firefly? The RAF website and Cranwell website seem to contradict each.
Finally, are there any online flow charts showing which OCU you go to once you have been streamed? Things have been shuffled around a bit but the RAF website is still not up to date, for example the Typhoon OCU and OEU is shown as Warton rather than Conningsby which I believe it is now. If changes like these have not been updated across the website just takes that little bit of confidence away that you know what your talking about if that makes sense.

I fairly confident about all the other area’s of the selection/interviews, but any helpful advice/websites or books you know of I would be grateful if you could point me in the right direction, I already have some practice psychometric books, and do all the other obvious thing like read papers and watch the news.

JackDorn

Hi, my first post also i used the files on http://www.tgda.gov.uk/publications.asp found hey helped me to learn the training systems.

Secret Squire

Hi,

Muchos apologies for the 9 millionth OASC thread that has appeared in this forum in the last week, however!

As a grunt who is shortly going to be off to OASC, I am trying to find that video Jeremy Clarkson did where he went to do the aptitude tests, youtube so far has been not as helpful, or maybe being a thick infanteer I just can't use it properly yet!

If anyone has a link to it etc, I'd be grateful!

Cheers,

SS

pilotgriff

Hello guys, i'm 19 years old, have a PPL & 70 hours. I am very keen on becoming a Pilot, however the carrers office is giving me conflicting information.

I was told that a PPL would not neccessarily be taken into concideration at OASC and that Pilot training is so hard to complete and that even at the initial stages ie appying to be a pilot, the standards are very high due to all the cut backs i'm sure you are familiar about.

Some inside knowledge on this and also the flight training & any other preparations that you think would improve my chances would be appreciated.

Regards,

Griff

Hot Charlie

A PPL is a very nice thing to have at your age.

However, it will be the least of OASCs concerns - they will take a lot more important things into consideration during selection. The fact you have a PPL may just make some initial EFT sorties a little easier, but in the end, you would still have to learn to fly the RAF way along with your peers, and you'd still need to pass the aptitude tests.

There will be no harm in mentioning it (if it was self funded it does perhaps show good motivation to a flying career), but I expect OASC may be keen to see all the other things you have done as a teenager as well.

Indeed. I've heard people whinge about it, but in the end, someone will end up doing the job, and it's up to you to make sure you give yourself the best chance.


Good luck with the application!

airborne_artist

Bear in mind that the pilot bit is only half the problem. They are looking for officer potential as well as pilot potential. You need to demonstrate that you are the best potential officer who also passes the pilot aptitude tests to a high standard.

advocatusDIABOLI

PilotGriff,

Firstly, well done for getting your PPL, at such a tender age!! I hope you have enjoyed your flying up to this point. However, in terms of application to the RAF or RN for flying duties, it will only be part of the equation. Don't get me wrong, it's a good and very positive start, but as another poster has said, you'll still need to score well in other areas too.

The careers office are right about one thing, competition is, and always has been tight, so making the best of what you have to offer is key. I always think, that enthusiasm and evidence to back it up are more important than some people give credit for, but academics/leadership/pilot apptitude/ personal skills all play a part too.

Bottom line: Build your best case for joining, then apply. If we want you, you'll get in. If we don't, you won't. Either way, you won't be left thinking....... 'I wonder if ?' Like in most things in life, you can't, unless you try.

Best of Luck Chum!

Advo

Flik Roll

A PPL will help for only about the first half if that of the EFT Syllabus. You will have an early advantage in that you are familiar with the radios and talking to ATC etc. - you will find you have more capacity. Some bits are similar, but the RAF have a different style of teaching to the civ world, you may find you overly rely on instruments for example rather than attitude flying. All depends on what you were taught and what bad habits you have developed.
Nav is very different as it is all MDR - no whizz wheel! Work on your maths. Aslo emergency handling will feature hevily. I know that as a PPL stude i rarely got any emergencys and they were always of a similar nature.

pilotgriff

Cheers that is a help. Would you think it a good idea if i was to join my raf reserve squadron before my application for pilot?