Waddo 2001
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Waddo 2001
As an ex mate I dragged nagger and kids to Waddo Airhow but was, frankly V disappointed.
Took 2 hours to get in ( I live 3 miles from Waddo) and the static park was a shambles of aged RAF airplanes and a few Tornados and I thought that the inclusion of the Israeli AF was a tad non PC.
The Big Airplane park include the C 17 but no VC 10 or Tristar.
What is going on ?
Don't the RAF have enough jets to provide a decent static park ?
The best bit of the flying display were the French - come on boys let's get real here its ur shop window and would you want to shop there again ?
Took 2 hours to get in ( I live 3 miles from Waddo) and the static park was a shambles of aged RAF airplanes and a few Tornados and I thought that the inclusion of the Israeli AF was a tad non PC.
The Big Airplane park include the C 17 but no VC 10 or Tristar.
What is going on ?
Don't the RAF have enough jets to provide a decent static park ?
The best bit of the flying display were the French - come on boys let's get real here its ur shop window and would you want to shop there again ?
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I hate to break the habit of a lifetime... and jump to the defence of aircrew but...
Airshows are all very exciting for members of the general public and aircraft spotters, but bear in mind those aircrew who have to fly their jets to each show, sit on the ground all weekend and fly home again. Those same aircrew, depending on aircraft type, are undergoing numerous detachments, unsociable hours, secondary duties etc etc etc. Morale is already at an all time low, RAF personnel (not just aircrew) are being stretched to their limits and spend far too much time away from their families as it is.
Maybe that time away is justified in many cases... but to sit on a pan, answering the same old questions from people out on a jolly with their families for the weekend seems more than a little unfair.
PaulDeGearup... have things changed so much since you left, or have you forgotten what it feels like to spend an inordinnate amount of time from your family?
Airshows are all very exciting for members of the general public and aircraft spotters, but bear in mind those aircrew who have to fly their jets to each show, sit on the ground all weekend and fly home again. Those same aircrew, depending on aircraft type, are undergoing numerous detachments, unsociable hours, secondary duties etc etc etc. Morale is already at an all time low, RAF personnel (not just aircrew) are being stretched to their limits and spend far too much time away from their families as it is.
Maybe that time away is justified in many cases... but to sit on a pan, answering the same old questions from people out on a jolly with their families for the weekend seems more than a little unfair.
PaulDeGearup... have things changed so much since you left, or have you forgotten what it feels like to spend an inordinnate amount of time from your family?
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X Blunty,
I copy your points re. weekends away from families, answering boring / repetitive / inane questions, etc. However, if the event was really as wanting as Paul describes, is it not in everybody's interests to ensure that we put on a good show? I know that a good deal of time and effort is expended by numerous people in publicising our Service, and I don't mean to knock 'em. That said, Heaven knows, apart from the airshows, a good deal of the publicity enjoyed(?) by the RAF comes in the form of low-flying complaints or tabloid 'exclusives' about Wg Cdr X running off with SAC Y.
I couldn't visit the Waddington show, so I'm in no position to comment on its content, but would you agree that for RAF airshows in general, it is important that we make it worthwhile for those people who DO give up their weekends in the manner you describe, by making sure that we put on a really good show every time?
I've got no problem with the Israeli AF participating - adds to the variety! Anybody else visit Waddo?
Regards,
Blue.
I copy your points re. weekends away from families, answering boring / repetitive / inane questions, etc. However, if the event was really as wanting as Paul describes, is it not in everybody's interests to ensure that we put on a good show? I know that a good deal of time and effort is expended by numerous people in publicising our Service, and I don't mean to knock 'em. That said, Heaven knows, apart from the airshows, a good deal of the publicity enjoyed(?) by the RAF comes in the form of low-flying complaints or tabloid 'exclusives' about Wg Cdr X running off with SAC Y.
I couldn't visit the Waddington show, so I'm in no position to comment on its content, but would you agree that for RAF airshows in general, it is important that we make it worthwhile for those people who DO give up their weekends in the manner you describe, by making sure that we put on a really good show every time?
I've got no problem with the Israeli AF participating - adds to the variety! Anybody else visit Waddo?
Regards,
Blue.
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Blue
I don't disagree with anything you say. I have been a PRO on a flying station and have had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to ensure that the service enjoys some positive PR, but I do feel that it is counter-productive to ensure PR at the expense of those individuals concerned.
It is time that someone(?) questioned the PR value of station airshows which despite everyone's best efforts fail to impress. Station airshows create a tremendous amount of work for those involved, both on the station and the visiting crews. I feel that if the Waddington airshow was that poor, the only PR value achieved was negative. Station airshows which fail to satisfy the public are counter-productive and in the end do not benefit anyone.
Perhaps it would be better if everyone's efforts were put into one airshow that truly reflects the image all involved would like to convey... IAT?
I don't disagree with anything you say. I have been a PRO on a flying station and have had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to ensure that the service enjoys some positive PR, but I do feel that it is counter-productive to ensure PR at the expense of those individuals concerned.
It is time that someone(?) questioned the PR value of station airshows which despite everyone's best efforts fail to impress. Station airshows create a tremendous amount of work for those involved, both on the station and the visiting crews. I feel that if the Waddington airshow was that poor, the only PR value achieved was negative. Station airshows which fail to satisfy the public are counter-productive and in the end do not benefit anyone.
Perhaps it would be better if everyone's efforts were put into one airshow that truly reflects the image all involved would like to convey... IAT?
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X,
I agree with your point - if you cannot do something properly, you probably shouldn't do it at all. I don't doubt the amount of work involved in organising a Stn airshow, but has it always proven so difficult to secure appearances (static or flying) by a wide variety of types, or has this problem been exacerbated by the down-sizing of the last twenty years? I recall visiting numerous airshows at Finingley which were absolutely cracking - and not just because they had four Vulcans displaying at once!
Given the relative in-exposure of the general public to the Services, do you believe that Stn airshows are still important in raising awareness, provided that they can be conducted effectively, or would you still opt in favour of just a couple of larger events? I think it would be a shame if we had to go down that route, as we've heard on other threads recently about the problems already faced by people trying to get to airshows. If the number of shows was reduced to a few select events, forcing punters to drive further to see them, do you think that people might just not bother? I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I do know that airshows still rank as one of the most popular forms of mass entertainment; it would be a shame to see them dry up.
Regards,
Blue.
[Edited twice for poor expression ... illiterate git!]
[This message has been edited by Blue Stuff (edited 02 July 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Blue Stuff (edited 02 July 2001).]
I agree with your point - if you cannot do something properly, you probably shouldn't do it at all. I don't doubt the amount of work involved in organising a Stn airshow, but has it always proven so difficult to secure appearances (static or flying) by a wide variety of types, or has this problem been exacerbated by the down-sizing of the last twenty years? I recall visiting numerous airshows at Finingley which were absolutely cracking - and not just because they had four Vulcans displaying at once!
Given the relative in-exposure of the general public to the Services, do you believe that Stn airshows are still important in raising awareness, provided that they can be conducted effectively, or would you still opt in favour of just a couple of larger events? I think it would be a shame if we had to go down that route, as we've heard on other threads recently about the problems already faced by people trying to get to airshows. If the number of shows was reduced to a few select events, forcing punters to drive further to see them, do you think that people might just not bother? I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I do know that airshows still rank as one of the most popular forms of mass entertainment; it would be a shame to see them dry up.
Regards,
Blue.
[Edited twice for poor expression ... illiterate git!]
[This message has been edited by Blue Stuff (edited 02 July 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Blue Stuff (edited 02 July 2001).]
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Paul,
I brought an FJ aircraft in to Waddo this year and apologise that the display we put on FOR YOU was not up to your expectations. The show couldn't have been too bad as we managed to attract another 79999 punters who mostly seemed to be quite happy.
Yes, I agree, the traffic situation was not good however, did you use the park & ride that was laid on? (most buses I saw were max half full) - and, if you only live 3 miles from the base could you not walk? Or do you need to run your car engine for 2 hours to add the the pollution problem?
You have answered your own question regarding the static park. Correct, the RAF do not have enough aircraft AVAILABLE to put on a big static display. From what I saw, the ONLY fixed wing aircraft missing were the VC10 and Tristar. These guys are probably the most overworked of all of the fleets in the force and probably did not have an aircraft or a crew available due to the ever increasing commitments we are asked to fill.
Please remember, most of the static crews are volunteers. I expect (myself included) that they returned home to a normal week's work with no time off for the 20+ hours worked for the public's benefit over the weekend.
Comments such as 'the static park was a shambles' and 'I was frankly V disappointed' will not be well received by me or anyone else who gave up a lot of time in organizing and taking part in the show.
Now, I may be proved wrong by the flood of posts that will appear on this thread but comments like yours will only discourage the RAF from organizing any more public events for YOUR benefit and should be kept to yourself rather than having a dig at the service because the show wasn't really good enough for you.
By the way...what would you have done differently?
Edited as my typing in an enraged state of mind is not good.
[This message has been edited by Tilt&Gain (edited 02 July 2001).]
I brought an FJ aircraft in to Waddo this year and apologise that the display we put on FOR YOU was not up to your expectations. The show couldn't have been too bad as we managed to attract another 79999 punters who mostly seemed to be quite happy.
Yes, I agree, the traffic situation was not good however, did you use the park & ride that was laid on? (most buses I saw were max half full) - and, if you only live 3 miles from the base could you not walk? Or do you need to run your car engine for 2 hours to add the the pollution problem?
You have answered your own question regarding the static park. Correct, the RAF do not have enough aircraft AVAILABLE to put on a big static display. From what I saw, the ONLY fixed wing aircraft missing were the VC10 and Tristar. These guys are probably the most overworked of all of the fleets in the force and probably did not have an aircraft or a crew available due to the ever increasing commitments we are asked to fill.
Please remember, most of the static crews are volunteers. I expect (myself included) that they returned home to a normal week's work with no time off for the 20+ hours worked for the public's benefit over the weekend.
Comments such as 'the static park was a shambles' and 'I was frankly V disappointed' will not be well received by me or anyone else who gave up a lot of time in organizing and taking part in the show.
Now, I may be proved wrong by the flood of posts that will appear on this thread but comments like yours will only discourage the RAF from organizing any more public events for YOUR benefit and should be kept to yourself rather than having a dig at the service because the show wasn't really good enough for you.
By the way...what would you have done differently?
Edited as my typing in an enraged state of mind is not good.
[This message has been edited by Tilt&Gain (edited 02 July 2001).]
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Report from Lincolnshire Echo:
"Jumanji the African owl was happy to sit back and watch planes take to the sky this weekend.
Jumanji, from the Raptor Foundation bird of prey hospital based in Cambridgeshire, came to Waddington Air Show to take advantage of the record crowds and raise money for the centre.
More than 160,000 people came through the gates during the weekend, 10,000 more than last year's record figure.
Organisers believe good weather and the cancellation of major events, such as the Lincolnshire Show, contributed to the crowd.
But displays given by the Red Arrows, the Swiss Air Force's F/A 18 and the Hungarian MiG 29 also attracted aviation fans.
Air show co-ordinator Paul Byram said: "We had a very good programme and the crowd enjoyed it."
"Jumanji the African owl was happy to sit back and watch planes take to the sky this weekend.
Jumanji, from the Raptor Foundation bird of prey hospital based in Cambridgeshire, came to Waddington Air Show to take advantage of the record crowds and raise money for the centre.
More than 160,000 people came through the gates during the weekend, 10,000 more than last year's record figure.
Organisers believe good weather and the cancellation of major events, such as the Lincolnshire Show, contributed to the crowd.
But displays given by the Red Arrows, the Swiss Air Force's F/A 18 and the Hungarian MiG 29 also attracted aviation fans.
Air show co-ordinator Paul Byram said: "We had a very good programme and the crowd enjoyed it."
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Paul
I would have to second the comments made by Tilt above. Having given up my weekend to bring one of the exhibits to the "shambolic" static park I too feel upset that we did not give you your ££'s worth. Funny that so many others appeared happy and content.
Things ARE more stretched in all 3 services, but please don't knock those who give up their time freely to promote it as best we can, or those who put in an enormous effort to organise and run the damn thing.
(as an aside here...thanks to Aircrew Hosting for an excellent w/e. Top job guys)
...and to X Blunty; I suggest the only reason you are against airshows is because it involves a bit more work from you in the first place!
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Just Lookout and Fly Accurately Bloggs!
I would have to second the comments made by Tilt above. Having given up my weekend to bring one of the exhibits to the "shambolic" static park I too feel upset that we did not give you your ££'s worth. Funny that so many others appeared happy and content.
Things ARE more stretched in all 3 services, but please don't knock those who give up their time freely to promote it as best we can, or those who put in an enormous effort to organise and run the damn thing.
(as an aside here...thanks to Aircrew Hosting for an excellent w/e. Top job guys)
...and to X Blunty; I suggest the only reason you are against airshows is because it involves a bit more work from you in the first place!
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Just Lookout and Fly Accurately Bloggs!
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AllTrimDout
Its very unusual for me to jump to the aid of a blunty, but I do feel that if you re-read X's comments, he does seem to be actually fighting the cause of aircrew. He acknowledges that we are all working at over-streach.
Regards
[This message has been edited by Tigs (edited 02 July 2001).]
Its very unusual for me to jump to the aid of a blunty, but I do feel that if you re-read X's comments, he does seem to be actually fighting the cause of aircrew. He acknowledges that we are all working at over-streach.
Regards
[This message has been edited by Tigs (edited 02 July 2001).]
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Tigs
Agree, but most of us (from the aircrew side at least) volunteer for these shows. There is an element of fun involved too! Quite often, despite the time away, they are one of the few fun things left. I thought the rationale behind the RAF concentrating on one or two major shows WAS to give the best on offer.
If X Blunty is onside, then no worries, but having just experienced Waddo for the nth time as a participant, I take exception to criticism of others doing their best to make the show a success in trying times.
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Just Lookout and Fly Accurately Bloggs!
Agree, but most of us (from the aircrew side at least) volunteer for these shows. There is an element of fun involved too! Quite often, despite the time away, they are one of the few fun things left. I thought the rationale behind the RAF concentrating on one or two major shows WAS to give the best on offer.
If X Blunty is onside, then no worries, but having just experienced Waddo for the nth time as a participant, I take exception to criticism of others doing their best to make the show a success in trying times.
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Just Lookout and Fly Accurately Bloggs!
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There is one thing true in life - you can't please every one! Having personally put a lot of time and effort into the airshow it's fairly obvious from some of the comments that some have never been that involved in trying to organise such an event. I certainly did not volunteer to do the task I was given - however, I did it to the best of my ability. The bottom line - it is a business and it must make enough money to survive. If you have ever been in Paul Byram's office on any day leading up to the event you will understand how much work there is! As for the Israelis - although this was on very dodgy ground - they certainly provided a lot of interset from the general public who flocked in their thousands to see their flying display and also their ground display - with some state of the art kit I can tell you. Having such a variety of aircraft at this event has helped to establish this event as one of the top shows in Europe - after talking to Paul earlier, the initial estimate could be as high as 200,000 people over the weekend. Most of whom seemed very happy with the event.
Personally, the last 2 weeks have been a complete nightmare for me - and as a result I am now seriously thinking of making my living with Mr Branson if he will have me! There is no way I'm going to put my family 2nd again like I did for this air show. Sorry I can't give any specifics as I don't want to compromise myself - not yet anyway. Still mustn't grumble!
Personally, the last 2 weeks have been a complete nightmare for me - and as a result I am now seriously thinking of making my living with Mr Branson if he will have me! There is no way I'm going to put my family 2nd again like I did for this air show. Sorry I can't give any specifics as I don't want to compromise myself - not yet anyway. Still mustn't grumble!
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As another who contributed to the poor RAF display by bring a jet into Waddo, let me profusely apologise. Obviously I'd rather be at home with my family but needs must etc.
I'm also sure that the poor souls who had to get up at 5am for the Mon morn FOD plod were glad that you find it so easy to rubbish their efforts.
For what it's worth, Waddington (this year) has been the best (and best organised) airshow I've attended (out of 8, inc Mildenhall).
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HD
I'm also sure that the poor souls who had to get up at 5am for the Mon morn FOD plod were glad that you find it so easy to rubbish their efforts.
For what it's worth, Waddington (this year) has been the best (and best organised) airshow I've attended (out of 8, inc Mildenhall).
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HD
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X Blunty
I appreciate your interest in aircrew welfare but as far as I'm concerned being asked to go and do an airshow is a bonus not a chore (and I do work a lot of weekends) as it usually means being on the lash with the boys for most of the weekend and having a great laugh. I'm not the only one surely?
I appreciate your interest in aircrew welfare but as far as I'm concerned being asked to go and do an airshow is a bonus not a chore (and I do work a lot of weekends) as it usually means being on the lash with the boys for most of the weekend and having a great laugh. I'm not the only one surely?
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As someone who has spent the last weekend and a lot more besides, being on show for the stashes OBE, I can confirm that there were a lot of unhappy people about. Indeed I felt the rough end of 2 punters tongues on Sunday!! However there were far more thousands of people who enjoyed the event to the full. Tis very true that both the flying display and the static lines were not as good as in previous years but yer average anorak got a very good deal for his money.
Those who know me, will tell you I am not in any way shape or form, RAF committed and I don't like working weekends more than any thing else. But we must not forget that Waddo airshow is a CHARITY event that is targeted directly at our own service charities, ie the RAF association and the Benevolent fund.
I kinda look upon it as putting insurance in the bank. I hope both organisations will be there and well funded if I ever need to call upon them!!
You can't please everybody all the time, it was hard work but well worth it. I am off to bed now!!
Those who know me, will tell you I am not in any way shape or form, RAF committed and I don't like working weekends more than any thing else. But we must not forget that Waddo airshow is a CHARITY event that is targeted directly at our own service charities, ie the RAF association and the Benevolent fund.
I kinda look upon it as putting insurance in the bank. I hope both organisations will be there and well funded if I ever need to call upon them!!
You can't please everybody all the time, it was hard work but well worth it. I am off to bed now!!
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