Whinging aircrew!
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Must be at the wrong station, cos everytime I make a mistake on a 1771 it's returned for ME to correct!!!
An' anover fing:
Just had an ACR returned because I didn't sign it in black ink!
An' anover fing:
Just had an ACR returned because I didn't sign it in black ink!
Pilot Officer PPRuNe
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Dear Mr Admin Mate,
First of all, well done for admiting that you are not an OC Amin, it was very obvious.
Lets look at the points you raise in the initial post.
1. "Let me start by saying what a surprise to find a website full of aircrew moaning about pay and conditions!"
Well, it is a pilots forum. I have heard plenty of Adminers, suppliers, ATC, doctors etc etc moan about exactly the same kind of things, but they dont have a web site. Start one if you want but don't tell us what we can't complain about here.
2. "Why cant you just accepet the fact that aircrew are not the be all and end all of the RAF."
True, but we are all here to put bombs on targets, and at the moment that requires pilots so please accept that.
"We in the support branches have just as important a role if not more so than the aircrew."
Well yes you are are important, put you do not put that bomb on the target. Everyone has a job to do, you obviously have a hard on about something, you are the only one that can sort that out.
3. "If not flying you sit around the crewroom with a copy of the telegraph moaning that you deserve more than the already significant flying pay the rest of us do not get! If your job is demanding for a couple of hours a day, twice a week, this is more than balanced by most jobs in the RAF that are demanding 10 hours a day regardless of the weather."
Oh, if only. My current job sees me airborne 3-4 times per day weather permitting. If not then I have ****e loads of paperwork, reports and secondary duties to perform as well as preperation for lessons and tests. I am not on the front line at the moment, but have spent several years there. As a Tanker pilot I spent weeks out of the coutry working long hours and often at short notice. We all have our problems, but don't mouth off about things you don't understand.
4. "Following on from this I would like to address the elitism that all wearers of a brevet seem to carry with them. In USAF and the RCAF all branches/trades have a specific brevet with differing insignia. This recognises the importance of all trades including the highly worked adminers like myself!"
I worked bl00dy hard to get my wings, and it is what I wanted from the age of 6. If you want a brevet then fine, but the USAF have it wrong IMHO. Wings are for pilots and that is how it should stay. Perhaps you could have a set of crossed pens our something?
I fail to see why you are supprised that this site has complaints from aircrew, however, if you read other threads there is a lot of good stuff to. It is human nature to complain, and I think we have good reason. If there was no reason then why can't we keep aircrew in the RAF??
Tonks
Edited cause I am aircrew and can't spell/punctuate (oh, but neither can our blunty friend
)
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Tonkenna ]</p>
First of all, well done for admiting that you are not an OC Amin, it was very obvious.
Lets look at the points you raise in the initial post.
1. "Let me start by saying what a surprise to find a website full of aircrew moaning about pay and conditions!"
Well, it is a pilots forum. I have heard plenty of Adminers, suppliers, ATC, doctors etc etc moan about exactly the same kind of things, but they dont have a web site. Start one if you want but don't tell us what we can't complain about here.
2. "Why cant you just accepet the fact that aircrew are not the be all and end all of the RAF."
True, but we are all here to put bombs on targets, and at the moment that requires pilots so please accept that.
"We in the support branches have just as important a role if not more so than the aircrew."
Well yes you are are important, put you do not put that bomb on the target. Everyone has a job to do, you obviously have a hard on about something, you are the only one that can sort that out.
3. "If not flying you sit around the crewroom with a copy of the telegraph moaning that you deserve more than the already significant flying pay the rest of us do not get! If your job is demanding for a couple of hours a day, twice a week, this is more than balanced by most jobs in the RAF that are demanding 10 hours a day regardless of the weather."
Oh, if only. My current job sees me airborne 3-4 times per day weather permitting. If not then I have ****e loads of paperwork, reports and secondary duties to perform as well as preperation for lessons and tests. I am not on the front line at the moment, but have spent several years there. As a Tanker pilot I spent weeks out of the coutry working long hours and often at short notice. We all have our problems, but don't mouth off about things you don't understand.
4. "Following on from this I would like to address the elitism that all wearers of a brevet seem to carry with them. In USAF and the RCAF all branches/trades have a specific brevet with differing insignia. This recognises the importance of all trades including the highly worked adminers like myself!"
I worked bl00dy hard to get my wings, and it is what I wanted from the age of 6. If you want a brevet then fine, but the USAF have it wrong IMHO. Wings are for pilots and that is how it should stay. Perhaps you could have a set of crossed pens our something?
I fail to see why you are supprised that this site has complaints from aircrew, however, if you read other threads there is a lot of good stuff to. It is human nature to complain, and I think we have good reason. If there was no reason then why can't we keep aircrew in the RAF??
Tonks
Edited cause I am aircrew and can't spell/punctuate (oh, but neither can our blunty friend
)[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Tonkenna ]</p>
Poor chap.
Clearly failed aircrew or more likely a non-select at OASC to have that kind of attitude.
And with that kind of attitude to UAS studes, he must be at a FJ base which also has a UAS, or be terribly bitter about having been too thick for uni, which must be difficult now that even Derby Tech is a Uni, and you need only the most modest qualifications to get into higher/tertiary education. Or perhaps his UAS took one look at him and said: "No thanks."
Most of us who aren't aircrew recognise the sterling job you chaps do, are suitably grateful, and understand the difficult background against which you have to operate. Who wouldn't whinge at some of the $hit you have to put up with? (Even if most of you you lack the correct degree of respect and love for us poor hardworking journos.....! Oh, OK then!)
But not all those who are blunt are remotely like he is, and who knows, maybe he'll now go out and look at the sharp end with open eyes.
Clearly failed aircrew or more likely a non-select at OASC to have that kind of attitude.
And with that kind of attitude to UAS studes, he must be at a FJ base which also has a UAS, or be terribly bitter about having been too thick for uni, which must be difficult now that even Derby Tech is a Uni, and you need only the most modest qualifications to get into higher/tertiary education. Or perhaps his UAS took one look at him and said: "No thanks."
Most of us who aren't aircrew recognise the sterling job you chaps do, are suitably grateful, and understand the difficult background against which you have to operate. Who wouldn't whinge at some of the $hit you have to put up with? (Even if most of you you lack the correct degree of respect and love for us poor hardworking journos.....! Oh, OK then!)
But not all those who are blunt are remotely like he is, and who knows, maybe he'll now go out and look at the sharp end with open eyes.
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Refreshing that the (misguided) fool actually has the bollox to stand up and voice his opinions, even though they are utter s#ite!
Bloody funny forum though, haven't laughed so much at the Prune in ages - has the post generated a unified response from all aircrew for the first time?
However, Admin G, you are a w@nker
Bloody funny forum though, haven't laughed so much at the Prune in ages - has the post generated a unified response from all aircrew for the first time?
However, Admin G, you are a w@nker
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Not just aircrew unified in their vitriol towards AG. As ex mil ATC I can say with some confidence that he is obviously a tw@t of the highest order.
Perhaps a special AG brevet could be issued. Any suggestions ??
As if correctly filling out an F1771 is something to write home about. AG, I can correctly fill out a F2905. Can you?? Do you even know what the chuff it is?
As has been pointed out on a number of previous posts aircrew are not the only ones to whinge (although they are very good at ) .
I feel an introduction to the erstwhile gentlemen of the RAF Regiment may be in order for AG. Preferably on a dark evening down a quiet alleyway.
Perhaps a special AG brevet could be issued. Any suggestions ??
As if correctly filling out an F1771 is something to write home about. AG, I can correctly fill out a F2905. Can you?? Do you even know what the chuff it is?
As has been pointed out on a number of previous posts aircrew are not the only ones to whinge (although they are very good at
) .I feel an introduction to the erstwhile gentlemen of the RAF Regiment may be in order for AG. Preferably on a dark evening down a quiet alleyway.
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Sorry guys can't resist this one!!It'sa got to be done!!!!!
Admin bloke, **** off and co*k up someones life somewhere else will you! this is an aircrew forum and you were not invited in.
Don't like our banter or whinging? then don't sit near us, talk to us or even stay in the same room as us.
Admin bloke, **** off and co*k up someones life somewhere else will you! this is an aircrew forum and you were not invited in.
Don't like our banter or whinging? then don't sit near us, talk to us or even stay in the same room as us.
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AG
The reason aircrew gripe and groan is because there are w@nkers like you to contend with on a daily basis. We do NOT get paid enough for that, I'm afraid.
For example, a crew of a heavy-jet in TTH (Look it up you loser) arrived to find themselves without accomodation available (should have been sorted out by the 'Support Staff'). No problem. Kip on the jet. The snag arose when they missed dinner, due to a 3 hour wait on the pan as a result of some very poor ground handling. The so-called 'Support Staff' refused to sign the F95, and claimed they should have anticipated the 3 hour wait and ordered a late meal! What planet are these people on?
AG, the worry is that you will remain in the RAF for some length of time, since even an outfit like Dixons would find your attitude well below the mark.
Aknowledged, there are some very helpful people out there, but you are obviously not one of them.
As for crass comments about Hercs at 150 Kts: have you ever been up in one at low level when they do their funky stuff? I didn't think so.
PVR now and do us all a favour. Let me know what Dixons say. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
The reason aircrew gripe and groan is because there are w@nkers like you to contend with on a daily basis. We do NOT get paid enough for that, I'm afraid.
For example, a crew of a heavy-jet in TTH (Look it up you loser) arrived to find themselves without accomodation available (should have been sorted out by the 'Support Staff'). No problem. Kip on the jet. The snag arose when they missed dinner, due to a 3 hour wait on the pan as a result of some very poor ground handling. The so-called 'Support Staff' refused to sign the F95, and claimed they should have anticipated the 3 hour wait and ordered a late meal! What planet are these people on?
AG, the worry is that you will remain in the RAF for some length of time, since even an outfit like Dixons would find your attitude well below the mark.
Aknowledged, there are some very helpful people out there, but you are obviously not one of them.
As for crass comments about Hercs at 150 Kts: have you ever been up in one at low level when they do their funky stuff? I didn't think so.
PVR now and do us all a favour. Let me know what Dixons say. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Thread Starter
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You want to talk about Blunt - try FDJ, Deputy OC D Sqn. Quite obviousely an IOT Flt Cdr! Well, I rest my case on that one. Thanks for your phone number though!
I have obviously touched a few raw nerves and didnt want to appear too obtuse. But I am still greeted with responses no more imaginative or informative than a school child. "you are a w@nker" on every post is not the sort of response I would have expected from professional pilots.
Enjoy your weekend all God Like heroes. Oh and another thing, what happened to happy hour for all you under the thumb married chaps! Home already?
I have obviously touched a few raw nerves and didnt want to appear too obtuse. But I am still greeted with responses no more imaginative or informative than a school child. "you are a w@nker" on every post is not the sort of response I would have expected from professional pilots.
Enjoy your weekend all God Like heroes. Oh and another thing, what happened to happy hour for all you under the thumb married chaps! Home already?
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Errr did I miss something that's only obvious to geeky blunt admin wasters?
"You are a ****** wasn't the reply I was expecting".
What did you expect?
What did I miss in your original thread that endeared you so warmly to us that we should respond in any other fashion? You think WE'RE unreasonable and misguided?
Tell you what take a look at the odds here. YOU (singular) think ALL OF US (multiple) are twats. And WE all think YOU are a **** too. There's more of US than there are of you. That's settled then.
You are a ****.
You just don't get it do you? Take a long slow look at this thread from the very top and you'll notice one thing. I bet you're the kind of **** who marches along thinking "Oh look, it's everyone else who's out of step, not me"
And anuvver fing.
Do not start taking swipes at wives and girlfriends, simply because some folk have responsibilities elsewhere. I know your missus is made up of pixels & newsprint and is called "Donna, 23 from Chester" but OUR ladies are extremely supportive not just to their own family (and don't even think about taking that as meaning they $hag around); we consider them all part of the closely knit aircrew team that you will never, ever be part of.
And just to make sure let's try some thing:
All those who think Admin Zero is a complete **** say "Aye", no other comments just "Aye", agreed? And in seven days we'll have a count.
"You are a ****** wasn't the reply I was expecting".
What did you expect?
What did I miss in your original thread that endeared you so warmly to us that we should respond in any other fashion? You think WE'RE unreasonable and misguided?
Tell you what take a look at the odds here. YOU (singular) think ALL OF US (multiple) are twats. And WE all think YOU are a **** too. There's more of US than there are of you. That's settled then.
You are a ****.
You just don't get it do you? Take a long slow look at this thread from the very top and you'll notice one thing. I bet you're the kind of **** who marches along thinking "Oh look, it's everyone else who's out of step, not me"
And anuvver fing.
Do not start taking swipes at wives and girlfriends, simply because some folk have responsibilities elsewhere. I know your missus is made up of pixels & newsprint and is called "Donna, 23 from Chester" but OUR ladies are extremely supportive not just to their own family (and don't even think about taking that as meaning they $hag around); we consider them all part of the closely knit aircrew team that you will never, ever be part of.
And just to make sure let's try some thing:
All those who think Admin Zero is a complete **** say "Aye", no other comments just "Aye", agreed? And in seven days we'll have a count.
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Touched a raw nerve, there, didn't I? Obviously got rejected from Dixons. Must really hurt.
As far as your comments about happy hour/weekends and thumb action, some of us work weekends, and are happily married to boot. Perhaps yours aint so happy, or your sexual orientation doesn't entitle you to an OMQ?
Either that or you're reeling me in..... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
As far as your comments about happy hour/weekends and thumb action, some of us work weekends, and are happily married to boot. Perhaps yours aint so happy, or your sexual orientation doesn't entitle you to an OMQ?
Either that or you're reeling me in..... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
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TR
Good points all valid , but there really is no need to flash up and use oofensive language to get your point across.
Personally , let him say what he wants . To get wound up by it to the extent you have is just ammo . What do you think AG does ?
Log on , sees a 40 , 50 ,60 replies to his threads and laughs at how much he is "winding up the aircrew community "
To get wound up is to give him what his own talents could never
" Lose sight , lose fight " ?
Cool wet grass , cool wet grass .
Spend your weekend spending flying pay , with the missus happy in the knowledge that next week brings more time in the air.
Good points all valid , but there really is no need to flash up and use oofensive language to get your point across.
Personally , let him say what he wants . To get wound up by it to the extent you have is just ammo . What do you think AG does ?
Log on , sees a 40 , 50 ,60 replies to his threads and laughs at how much he is "winding up the aircrew community "
To get wound up is to give him what his own talents could never
" Lose sight , lose fight " ?
Cool wet grass , cool wet grass .
Spend your weekend spending flying pay , with the missus happy in the knowledge that next week brings more time in the air.
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Dear Aircrew,
As a REMF myself I’m embarrassed at AG’s attitude. Please don’t think all of us are as narrow minded as him.
Ps
Sorry to the Nim crew who I turned 3 times to cross CAS near Aberdeen this morning. (civvy charter flight wasn’t as fast as I thought)
As a REMF myself I’m embarrassed at AG’s attitude. Please don’t think all of us are as narrow minded as him.
Ps
Sorry to the Nim crew who I turned 3 times to cross CAS near Aberdeen this morning. (civvy charter flight wasn’t as fast as I thought)
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Gentlemen Please! Lets not get into an almighty slagging match. This bulletin board is not for that. I expected better things from Professional Aircrew, not childish purile tosh that is being posted in response to this awful rubbish from our Blunt friend.
This is not humour or banter, it's just down right pathetic. If you cannot control your thoughts on something so petty, what on earth are you doing in control of advanced weapons systems. May I suggest that this post is closed?
This is not humour or banter, it's just down right pathetic. If you cannot control your thoughts on something so petty, what on earth are you doing in control of advanced weapons systems. May I suggest that this post is closed?
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message from a horse's wife. I really wish I was married to an Admin Guru - home at 5:30 every evening, weekends free, no uncertainty ..... luxury .... what more can I say?
Avoid imitations
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Admin "Guru",
A few thoughts for you to bear in mind before you mouth off about aviation and admin next time, eh.
A first tourist cannot be a Guru, even in Admin. If you think otherwise then you have belittled your own occupation.
A PPL holder is very much on the bottom rung of aviation. He has bought his right to fly and not earned it like a military pilot must do.
Thanks for reminding me of why I voted with my feet and left the mob while you were probably still in primary school.
To you I bestow the honour of TOFO. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
A few thoughts for you to bear in mind before you mouth off about aviation and admin next time, eh.
A first tourist cannot be a Guru, even in Admin. If you think otherwise then you have belittled your own occupation.
A PPL holder is very much on the bottom rung of aviation. He has bought his right to fly and not earned it like a military pilot must do.
Thanks for reminding me of why I voted with my feet and left the mob while you were probably still in primary school.
To you I bestow the honour of TOFO. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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My head's in my hands. How could so many aircrew get wound up by him? Maybe we're not as bl00dy clever as we like to think. The, "I could do your job but you can't do mine" and "should have worked harder at school," brigades are just c*nts who think the world revolves around them and are as such the (indirect) cause of admin guru's post. If the likes of them didn't strut around treating the rest of the Air Force as underlings and telling them that they should have worked harder at school then the world would be a nicer place. I'm not with you AG, but you are right about one thing. Molly-coddled aircrew whinge like f*ck and it's very depressing considering the perks we enjoy.
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Identified,
Worry not - we know!
Admin 'not yet' Guru,
I am very glad that you raised the IOT Flt Cdr subject. In point of fact, you have very graphically illustrated why there are significant concerns over the standards of IOT graduates.
TR,
Aye!
Worry not - we know!
Admin 'not yet' Guru,
I am very glad that you raised the IOT Flt Cdr subject. In point of fact, you have very graphically illustrated why there are significant concerns over the standards of IOT graduates.
TR,
Aye!
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Sorry - me again.
Hengist Pod - sorry mate, but I don't see any 'Molly Coddled Aircrew' on my unit. If you are having it easy - enjoy it. Just don't assume that life is a breeze for everyone else out there!
Beam me up.
Hengist Pod - sorry mate, but I don't see any 'Molly Coddled Aircrew' on my unit. If you are having it easy - enjoy it. Just don't assume that life is a breeze for everyone else out there!
Beam me up.