WHAT A SHAME
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admin guru,
it's post like yours that make me remember why i wanted to take a shotgun down shq and unload it until all i could hear was adminers begging for mercy. If you had half the witt a first tourist aircrew mate had you be oc digby by now and then we'd be able to treat you with the pity you deserve. You sad talentless loser. I would rather serve burgers in the naffi than have you work for me (as you would have due to my gd superiority) in front of anyone i cared about.
Anytimebaby............nice fist post, even if it was a wind up. How do you spend all the loa mate. Do the blunties there call you sir and salute nice like. Apparently admin guru never fancied a real job and spent his childhood years dreaming of being king of the 1771. Wish we'd perform'd so badly at biggin as to get an admin sec courses.
Question.. why dosn't the mod make all admin sec post's staffed by civies( i know that it already appears they are) thus that the front line staff in the raf, the atc/aircrew/engineers/regiment etc, could at least be served by a someone who made no pretense at being in the military.
SAC Smith/admin guru, my excuse for taking an interst in this site is that i was ,for a short time at least, military aircrew. Why are you two bluejobs wasting space on this site? Complete the travel claims, issue the aircrew retention bonuses and be thankfull of the pityfull jobs you have.
To those i may have offended, ram it , i'm pissed.
[ 27 February 2002: Message edited by: spoilt tom ]</p>
it's post like yours that make me remember why i wanted to take a shotgun down shq and unload it until all i could hear was adminers begging for mercy. If you had half the witt a first tourist aircrew mate had you be oc digby by now and then we'd be able to treat you with the pity you deserve. You sad talentless loser. I would rather serve burgers in the naffi than have you work for me (as you would have due to my gd superiority) in front of anyone i cared about.
Anytimebaby............nice fist post, even if it was a wind up. How do you spend all the loa mate. Do the blunties there call you sir and salute nice like. Apparently admin guru never fancied a real job and spent his childhood years dreaming of being king of the 1771. Wish we'd perform'd so badly at biggin as to get an admin sec courses.
Question.. why dosn't the mod make all admin sec post's staffed by civies( i know that it already appears they are) thus that the front line staff in the raf, the atc/aircrew/engineers/regiment etc, could at least be served by a someone who made no pretense at being in the military.
SAC Smith/admin guru, my excuse for taking an interst in this site is that i was ,for a short time at least, military aircrew. Why are you two bluejobs wasting space on this site? Complete the travel claims, issue the aircrew retention bonuses and be thankfull of the pityfull jobs you have.
To those i may have offended, ram it , i'm pissed.
[ 27 February 2002: Message edited by: spoilt tom ]</p>
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" I was , for a short time at least , military aircrew "
Oh , so that`s why you are the authority on such matters !
As for your Gun-ho SHQ thoughts save them for the therapist mate . Admin Guru may come across as having some odd ideas but he doesn`t flash up like you have . And personally , the guy although Admin , can be a bit handy outside the clubs at 2 am if you know what I mean.
He may be a bluntie , but he`s one of us . Ram it yourself
[ 27 February 2002: Message edited by: KD ]</p>
Oh , so that`s why you are the authority on such matters !
As for your Gun-ho SHQ thoughts save them for the therapist mate . Admin Guru may come across as having some odd ideas but he doesn`t flash up like you have . And personally , the guy although Admin , can be a bit handy outside the clubs at 2 am if you know what I mean.
He may be a bluntie , but he`s one of us . Ram it yourself
[ 27 February 2002: Message edited by: KD ]</p>
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Spoilt Tom - With such a single minded view of anybody Non-Aircrew, you must be a joy to work with. Wait till you get to the private sector and have to deal with people rather than just playing with yourself in cockpit.. . [quote] Be thankful for the pityful jobs you have <hr></blockquote>. .Again I actually find this one quite funny. You show such a blatant disregard for other branches of the RAF it is pitiful. For all those adminers who actually joined to be non-aircrew, I can only apologise on your behalf Tom. I again reaffirm my point, not everybody joins the RAF to fly.. .Hope your next claim gets bounced back to you Tom, then maybe you can go to SHQ and introduce yourself to your helpful admin staff, Im sure they would love to meet you! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
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Spoilt Tom, I enter this web-site because I find it entertaining, informative and it's interesting to see people's views on a wide range of matters, whether they be aircrew related or otherwise. I think you'll find that the PPrune gods are not particularly bothered that non-aircrew frequent this site and I think it adds to it's richness, in terms of diversity (see "is it time to make this forum a closed one?". I can express any opinion I like, and furthermore, I can comment on a particular thread if I choose to do so. Whether my comments are interesting or valid is neither here nor there, I have as much right as you to be a member of PPrune, and there's nothing you can say/do/think that will alter that fact. You can rest assured that if I worked in allowances flight, and you had submitted a claim, there would be a strong possibility that your F1771 would go straight to the bottom of my in-tray. Perhaps then you would appreciate administrative support, rather than being a bigoted, dogmatic, intolerant, narrow-minded, blinkered, non-team player. 
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What a mess!!
I may have come over 'arrogant', but my message has been missed. It was the power and authority awarded to people not actually flying the planes, that annoys a lot of aircrew. Not, as appears to be the understanding, all non-aircrew!!
More importantly however, the reaction i received just typifies the bluntie mentality of being on the defensive, they can say what they like and anything fast jet aircrew say is bigoted or whingeing - we only whinge about people not doing their jobs, people not being goal oriented - just lunch break oriented. Sure plenty of people aren't like that, but then they don't pi** us off.
Finally,once again Spoilt Tom hit the nail on the head with his remarks. He has already moved to the outside world, flies his big civvie jet as a part of a big team, who are goal oriented, don't whinge and, like Nike say, Just Do It.
Keep on trucking Tom.
I may have come over 'arrogant', but my message has been missed. It was the power and authority awarded to people not actually flying the planes, that annoys a lot of aircrew. Not, as appears to be the understanding, all non-aircrew!!
More importantly however, the reaction i received just typifies the bluntie mentality of being on the defensive, they can say what they like and anything fast jet aircrew say is bigoted or whingeing - we only whinge about people not doing their jobs, people not being goal oriented - just lunch break oriented. Sure plenty of people aren't like that, but then they don't pi** us off.
Finally,once again Spoilt Tom hit the nail on the head with his remarks. He has already moved to the outside world, flies his big civvie jet as a part of a big team, who are goal oriented, don't whinge and, like Nike say, Just Do It.
Keep on trucking Tom.
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There's a lot of dirty washing going on here boys/girls. In my experience, the majority of admin people are well motivated and share a common objective of supporting the people doing the job at the coal face.
The majority of aircrew appreciate the support they receive and are courteous when dealing with the admin support people. Unfortunately, there will always be examples where this hasn't been the case, from both sides. Therein lies the problem: I said "sides". All should remember that they are in the same team.
I found that if I treated the support people with respect and courtesy, I generally got a good service. The system is often confusing to aircrew: what to claim for, how to claim etc. The adminers sometimes were probably too snowed under to explain it all, but those individuals who went the extra mile to help were worth their weight in gold. The "system" did seem to create its own problems, and I often left SHQ non the wiser, with the impression that if I didn't know it then that's my problem.
Arrogant pilots spoil it for the rest of us who don't deserve the preconceived ideas about pilots created by a few who had behaved inappropriately. There is a lot of pressure on aircrew, and sometimes the pressure can affect their behavior, but that's no excuse.
I'm not in your team anymore, but to those reading who still are, I suggest you don't burn your bridges with each other.
The majority of aircrew appreciate the support they receive and are courteous when dealing with the admin support people. Unfortunately, there will always be examples where this hasn't been the case, from both sides. Therein lies the problem: I said "sides". All should remember that they are in the same team.
I found that if I treated the support people with respect and courtesy, I generally got a good service. The system is often confusing to aircrew: what to claim for, how to claim etc. The adminers sometimes were probably too snowed under to explain it all, but those individuals who went the extra mile to help were worth their weight in gold. The "system" did seem to create its own problems, and I often left SHQ non the wiser, with the impression that if I didn't know it then that's my problem.
Arrogant pilots spoil it for the rest of us who don't deserve the preconceived ideas about pilots created by a few who had behaved inappropriately. There is a lot of pressure on aircrew, and sometimes the pressure can affect their behavior, but that's no excuse.
I'm not in your team anymore, but to those reading who still are, I suggest you don't burn your bridges with each other.
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Anytime, I'm 100% with you Baby!!
RTB'd from the land of Camels and Shower bags last week, and this latest det' only proved how much you are correct.. .First push into Oman Great! Scribblies couldn't do enough for you. Second push and they've taken over the place and flying and aircrew are just a pain in the arse and inconvenience.
First day there now taken up with filling in this form, signing that form, checking kit Blah!! despite it all having been done at homeplate at least twice before we departed!. .Mowglis comments about aircrew being under stress, excuses for attitude etc. are typical of a modern scribbly, so forget them.. .When he screws up, it means no beans for tea! (or no plates as was our case!) when you or I screw up, it's often a trip skywards, to that big squadron in the sky!. .I'm off soon, hopefully to a company that still puts flying aeroplanes as the number one goal. One day people will see the light and understand that the aim of the air force is to fly aeroplanes first and foremost and complete the mission! Some people are under the impression that CCS, AFT, IRT, Blah are more important, and seem to put that first - crap.. .Power to the flt deck!
RTB'd from the land of Camels and Shower bags last week, and this latest det' only proved how much you are correct.. .First push into Oman Great! Scribblies couldn't do enough for you. Second push and they've taken over the place and flying and aircrew are just a pain in the arse and inconvenience.
First day there now taken up with filling in this form, signing that form, checking kit Blah!! despite it all having been done at homeplate at least twice before we departed!. .Mowglis comments about aircrew being under stress, excuses for attitude etc. are typical of a modern scribbly, so forget them.. .When he screws up, it means no beans for tea! (or no plates as was our case!) when you or I screw up, it's often a trip skywards, to that big squadron in the sky!. .I'm off soon, hopefully to a company that still puts flying aeroplanes as the number one goal. One day people will see the light and understand that the aim of the air force is to fly aeroplanes first and foremost and complete the mission! Some people are under the impression that CCS, AFT, IRT, Blah are more important, and seem to put that first - crap.. .Power to the flt deck!
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Ah......... Admin gimp and Sac sick,
did you read any of my posts.
Unless you are both civvies then you won't be holding up any of my expense claims!
Here's a shocker for you, my expenses are now paid automatically into my pay at the end of the month based on where i go and how much i fly. On the few occasions there are errors all i have to do is have a chat with our "flightcrew admin girls", magic pure magic, and it gets sorted straight away. No hassle, no forms, no attitude.
My job is not to kill anyone and make the company money. Their job is to make my life as easy as possible, which includes ensuring i am paid every penny i'm due, so i can get on with mine.
Now the chaps who do the flying in the RAF deserve the same treatment. Whilst they of course spend the companys money and kill people you could try and act a bit more like our adminers and make their life's easy.
And please, don't turn this into a aircrew v groundcrew thing. You cannot even begin to compare yourself to the hard working, under staffed , over tasked Engineers, FC's, Int, ATC, regiment, et al who deserve proffesional respect. In my time in the RAF there was not a single incident where any OC Admin and their assorted admin muppets did anything which would make me think of your branch as anything other than a joke.
Once again i hear the voice of reason from anytimebaby. Since he still has to put up with you admin clowns ( all be it on the end of a phone for 3 years) i can only guess by his posts that things have got worse instead of better. Patience of a saint mate. Wish i was there.
Enjoy your weekend.
<img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
did you read any of my posts.
Unless you are both civvies then you won't be holding up any of my expense claims!
Here's a shocker for you, my expenses are now paid automatically into my pay at the end of the month based on where i go and how much i fly. On the few occasions there are errors all i have to do is have a chat with our "flightcrew admin girls", magic pure magic, and it gets sorted straight away. No hassle, no forms, no attitude.
My job is not to kill anyone and make the company money. Their job is to make my life as easy as possible, which includes ensuring i am paid every penny i'm due, so i can get on with mine.
Now the chaps who do the flying in the RAF deserve the same treatment. Whilst they of course spend the companys money and kill people you could try and act a bit more like our adminers and make their life's easy.
And please, don't turn this into a aircrew v groundcrew thing. You cannot even begin to compare yourself to the hard working, under staffed , over tasked Engineers, FC's, Int, ATC, regiment, et al who deserve proffesional respect. In my time in the RAF there was not a single incident where any OC Admin and their assorted admin muppets did anything which would make me think of your branch as anything other than a joke.
Once again i hear the voice of reason from anytimebaby. Since he still has to put up with you admin clowns ( all be it on the end of a phone for 3 years) i can only guess by his posts that things have got worse instead of better. Patience of a saint mate. Wish i was there.
Enjoy your weekend.
<img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
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Hear Hear!!!
There is not an Aircrew/Groundcrew 'thing' as you put it.... there is a 'thing' between those who do and those that can't/won't/don't. Most of our still, believe it or not, world respected team put 100% and more into what we do - ie. project airpower. We are all undermanned, overworked and generally ******ed around but do it because we think the job is important.... the thought that some small minded t**t makes himself feel important by putting a 1771 to the bottom of his pile is actually very sad - perhaps he ought to be chatting to fellow SACs guarding the airfield at Kabul - those guys are really important. AG and SS need to grow up or f**k off and those professionals amongst us... and I include everyone apart from AG and SS in that soubriquet should ignore their puerile and morale sapping posts.
There is not an Aircrew/Groundcrew 'thing' as you put it.... there is a 'thing' between those who do and those that can't/won't/don't. Most of our still, believe it or not, world respected team put 100% and more into what we do - ie. project airpower. We are all undermanned, overworked and generally ******ed around but do it because we think the job is important.... the thought that some small minded t**t makes himself feel important by putting a 1771 to the bottom of his pile is actually very sad - perhaps he ought to be chatting to fellow SACs guarding the airfield at Kabul - those guys are really important. AG and SS need to grow up or f**k off and those professionals amongst us... and I include everyone apart from AG and SS in that soubriquet should ignore their puerile and morale sapping posts.
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FGLFB . .. .Just like to point out that when I screw up, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">it may mean no beans for tea</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">,but that's for me and the 300+ people I will take with me. The profile button is quite useful in making sure you have your facts straight. I recommend you adopt more of a team player attitude for your future career. Who knows, we may share the same flight deck one day and we can discuss it then.. . . . <small>[ 18 March 2002, 12:46: Message edited by: Mowgli ]</small>
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I feel I have to defend myself. I am a team player, I understand that the whole is greater than the sum of its equal parts. I do my best to provide my superiors with a 1st class administrative service, so they can get on with achieveing their goals, and make their bosses happy, and so on. This isn't a air/ground debate, the flyers do the real operational stuff, and adminers are there to support them. I just don't like being slagged off by spoilt Tom, with his inferences that because I'm an SAC Adminer, I'm basically pond-life and have nothing to contribute & my job is worthless. I even apologised to Spoilt Tom somewhere in this thread, which seems to have fallen on deaf ears. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> Whilst I have nothing against Admin Guru, just because we're both Admin doesn't mean we are joined at the hip. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />
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Dear All, . . What a wonderful thread this has become but it would appear that there are a lot of us in here who are suffering from the traditional British trait of envy. If we could all just accept that the "main" task of the RAF today, as it has always been, is the projection of of our Air Power and that anything we can do as individuals to streamline that is simply in the best interests of us ALL, what a different Air Force we would have. Most of us have to grasp the fact that we will never be CAS, or the like, and find our niche in life and strive to do the best at what ever level we reach. I am now approaching my 28th year in the mob and after 15 years fixing all 3 types of aircraft I have spent the last 12 and a bit either hanging out of a Puma door or tending to the needs of those unfortunate souls aft of 245....whilst making the odd coffee for Alberts drivers, two less to cater for on my electric jet! I realised, a few years ago, that I had reached my particular rung on lifes ladder and am very happy with my lot, however I believe the system is at fault as it seems to want to breed a continous succesion of "aspiring chiefs", but frowns on anyone who is happy to accept their "indian" status. And lets face it without a happy buch of indians what's the point of being a chief? . .. .There can be absolutely no doubt that we do select the most capable people to drive our aircraft, even if they often seem to have the people skills of Attila the Hun, the patience of Basil Fawlty or the petulance of most two year olds, often displayed in here with great aplomb! However, if we were all honest with ourselves the job they do is one we would all love to "ave a go at" but for most of us this is a dizzy height we will never attain. That said I have managed to reach FS ALM, and proud of it, without a single O/A level to my name and at the senile age of 31 so the oppertunities are there but are limited. . .. .So for the very very small band of "AG" clones out there who, more often than not sit in the "big" seats in handbrake house or other admin outposts counting very important beans, please spare a thought for Blogg's next time he/she, nice PC touch there, show's exasperation cos your section's not manned over lunch,imagine Albert stopping for lunch...now there's an idea, or he/she can't get a medical/dental appt to fit with their flying prog, or they have been dicked for the classic Admin job of Ord Officer cos most adminers have some sort of manufactured stand by duty and therefore are exempt....go figure!!..... sh@t! the list is endless. Just pause and ask yourself what has he/she been doing or how long has he/she just been away while you have been sat there drinking your tea and thinking up new ways to f..k up the meagre spare time they have.. .. .End of diatribe. Bit disjointed but I think the sentiment is about right. Wonder if anyone will disagree?. .. .Happy Herc Mate. .. .All spelling mistakes are alcohol induced.....hic!. . . . <small>[ 06 March 2002, 10:01: Message edited by: Always_broken_in_wilts ]</small>
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Gentlmen,. .I have just returned from another stimulating happy hour - the chat was racy and the lager free flowing. . .. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> OC Admin and their assorted admin muppets did anything which would make me think of your branch as anything other than a joke </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Ridiculous comments like this really annoy me. How uninformed and unappreciative can you get? Glad you're in the civvie sector now because attitudes like yours, both ill-informed and outspoken, would not cut it in the modern military. Hope the admin staff you deal with on a day to day basis appreciate your amazingly patronising view of their status. However, I was interested in the fact that you said your allowances were automatically processed. You may well have read in one of my Forums that I make reference to such an integrated digital system such as this.
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First time posting on this site however,smiffy, word of advice on 6000's. Dont write anything in your reply box unless it's creepy ****lick brown nose stuff as this box is considered by the staff at PMA(Blunty Central) as a suicide box. Fill this box with anything non complimentary to your 1st RO and thats you off the promotion board.
