Chinook - Still Hitting Back 3 (Merged)
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In Our Thoughts....
Our crew was today tasked to the Mull of Kintyre Lighthouse LHS.
We were unable to shut-down on site, but paid our respects while in the hover, next to the memorial, for a few moments.
RIP - remaining in RAF SH crews thoughts.
We were unable to shut-down on site, but paid our respects while in the hover, next to the memorial, for a few moments.
RIP - remaining in RAF SH crews thoughts.
Avoid imitations
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What more could be said than "Well done chaps"?
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Seafuryfan, Thank you, to you and your crew.
All,
I promise that despite the fact that the campaign appears to have gone quiet, we are all still very much active. Letters continue to go to and from the MoD, and several questions have just been asked in the House of Commons.
I know that there is an EDM to be tabled the week after the Queen's Speech (next week, I think). Once that is tabled, I will post a link here and ask all our supporters to contact their MPs and to write to Mr Blair to ask that this injustice be put right.
They need to know that there is still widespread support for the campaign - and that it matters!
As always, I am grateful to each and everyone of you for your support.
Regards, as always.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
All,
I promise that despite the fact that the campaign appears to have gone quiet, we are all still very much active. Letters continue to go to and from the MoD, and several questions have just been asked in the House of Commons.
I know that there is an EDM to be tabled the week after the Queen's Speech (next week, I think). Once that is tabled, I will post a link here and ask all our supporters to contact their MPs and to write to Mr Blair to ask that this injustice be put right.
They need to know that there is still widespread support for the campaign - and that it matters!
As always, I am grateful to each and everyone of you for your support.
Regards, as always.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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Apologies
Having spent some considerable time reading all the reports I offer my sincere apologies to anyone whom I may have offended.
The case here is that the cause of the accident will never be determined with any certainty and, as such, the crew cannot be found negligent.
Yours, feeling very humble,
VageR
The case here is that the cause of the accident will never be determined with any certainty and, as such, the crew cannot be found negligent.
Yours, feeling very humble,
VageR
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Vage,
apologies not at all necessary, but thank you for your courtesy.
As you now see, once all available information is read, it is clear that the actual cause of the accident can never be determined.
The burden of proof of absolutely no doubt whatsoever is seriously undermined and should be removed immediately.
That's why I'm such an irritating sod!!
I take it you will be writing to your MP when the EDM is tabled
Kind regards, and much respect to you for posting as you have.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
apologies not at all necessary, but thank you for your courtesy.
As you now see, once all available information is read, it is clear that the actual cause of the accident can never be determined.
The burden of proof of absolutely no doubt whatsoever is seriously undermined and should be removed immediately.
That's why I'm such an irritating sod!!
I take it you will be writing to your MP when the EDM is tabled
Kind regards, and much respect to you for posting as you have.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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VageR
Brian’s right. Don’t beat yourself. Think about what you’ve done over the past couple of days. You came to the thread with a pretty universal crew room view of the crash, took the time to read up on it and saw a new perspective.
Few, if any in all honesty, actually argue that they KNOW what happened, and as you now realise, that’s the point.
Don’t be humble, be pleased to know that it’s heartening, to me at least, that all these pages do have a purpose.
M134
Brian’s right. Don’t beat yourself. Think about what you’ve done over the past couple of days. You came to the thread with a pretty universal crew room view of the crash, took the time to read up on it and saw a new perspective.
Few, if any in all honesty, actually argue that they KNOW what happened, and as you now realise, that’s the point.
Don’t be humble, be pleased to know that it’s heartening, to me at least, that all these pages do have a purpose.
M134
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Vage,
Thanks for taking time to read the thread and having the very good grace to declare you have changed your mind.
Welcome on board!
Thanks for taking time to read the thread and having the very good grace to declare you have changed your mind.
Welcome on board!
Just a numbered other
Vage
When I suggested you read all the thread, I didn't really expect you to do it!
Well done. If you can grasp the point, why can't the eejits who fight so hard to uphold this miscarriage of justice?
Good on yer!
When I suggested you read all the thread, I didn't really expect you to do it!
Well done. If you can grasp the point, why can't the eejits who fight so hard to uphold this miscarriage of justice?
Good on yer!
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I just have to drop in and say thank you to seafuryfan and his crew for paying their respects at the Mull- still much appreciated almost 10 years on.
Whilst I'm here, continued heartfelt thanks to Brian and Ark Royal for their stoic loyalty to the cause of this campaign.
Wonderful to see such a brave change of mind Vage Rot - it gives us hope that the beligerent MOD bods may also have someone with a conscience amongst them to eventually(soon???) over-ride this unecessary miscarriage of justice.
2004 will be the year that we see that justice carried out I KNOW it has to be so for the Tapper and Cook families - please keep up the good work. Nearly there........(would love to add a wee angel smiley but don't know how!!)
Whilst I'm here, continued heartfelt thanks to Brian and Ark Royal for their stoic loyalty to the cause of this campaign.
Wonderful to see such a brave change of mind Vage Rot - it gives us hope that the beligerent MOD bods may also have someone with a conscience amongst them to eventually(soon???) over-ride this unecessary miscarriage of justice.
2004 will be the year that we see that justice carried out I KNOW it has to be so for the Tapper and Cook families - please keep up the good work. Nearly there........(would love to add a wee angel smiley but don't know how!!)
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Hi susan,
hope you and yours are well.
But surely, you are the wee angel??
Assuring you of my continued support for as long as it is needed.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
hope you and yours are well.
But surely, you are the wee angel??
Assuring you of my continued support for as long as it is needed.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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ArkRoyal, I'm never one to give up just because the facts are burried - years of test flying have seen to that! It was a hell of a lot of bloody reading though! Lucky that the Job is very slack at the moment!
Susan, not a brave change of mind, just now that I'm aware of all the facts in the report I realised that I was talking out of my derriere! An opinion based on outdated info lodged in an alcohol-abused brain!
Keep up the fight, I can't see how the MoD can uphold their verdict with all the known problems with the aircraft - especially as there was no ADR/CVR to tell what happened. Sadly, nobody will ever know the facts.
Good Luck
VageR
Susan, not a brave change of mind, just now that I'm aware of all the facts in the report I realised that I was talking out of my derriere! An opinion based on outdated info lodged in an alcohol-abused brain!
Keep up the fight, I can't see how the MoD can uphold their verdict with all the known problems with the aircraft - especially as there was no ADR/CVR to tell what happened. Sadly, nobody will ever know the facts.
Good Luck
VageR
Just a numbered other
Susan, thank you for your kind words, but to mention me in the same sentence as Brian rather overstates my part in this.
I am a minor irritant to the body political, whereas Brian is a major thorn.
As Brian Says, ut is your bravery in this matter which lights the beacon for others to follow.
Vage Rot, I thank you humbly for your tenacity. Worth the read, wasn't it? Perhaps your MP will be more help than mine in making your voice heard where it matters.
I am a minor irritant to the body political, whereas Brian is a major thorn.
As Brian Says, ut is your bravery in this matter which lights the beacon for others to follow.
Vage Rot, I thank you humbly for your tenacity. Worth the read, wasn't it? Perhaps your MP will be more help than mine in making your voice heard where it matters.
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NorthSouth
Sorry about delay in responding..
Thank you for your input, it was a point that I had missed that both Mac DME and TACAN at Mac were both Ch116 - I don't think Boeing would have made an error quoting Ch 107 so the obvious question is "WHERE WAS THE EQUIPMENT WORKING ON 107 LOCATED".
Lighthouse, perhaps?
Sorry about delay in responding..
Thank you for your input, it was a point that I had missed that both Mac DME and TACAN at Mac were both Ch116 - I don't think Boeing would have made an error quoting Ch 107 so the obvious question is "WHERE WAS THE EQUIPMENT WORKING ON 107 LOCATED".
Lighthouse, perhaps?
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Hi all,
just to keep you updated as to what is going on.
Another letter sent to the MoD today requesting further information.
Verbal abuse given to a few MPs asking where my EDM is!!
I can promise you that I will let you all know when it has been tabled so that we can all get our own MPs to support the matter.
My thanks for your patience and for your support.
Season's greetings to you and yours.
Regards, as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
just to keep you updated as to what is going on.
Another letter sent to the MoD today requesting further information.
Verbal abuse given to a few MPs asking where my EDM is!!
I can promise you that I will let you all know when it has been tabled so that we can all get our own MPs to support the matter.
My thanks for your patience and for your support.
Season's greetings to you and yours.
Regards, as always
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
This year will see the 10th anniversary of the Chinook crash of 2 Jun 1994.
Let's hope that Brian's unstinting efforts will continue to be supported by all of us - and that the unjust findings of Wratten and Day will finally be overturned.
Happy New Year to all - and raise a glass to absent friends.
Let's hope that Brian's unstinting efforts will continue to be supported by all of us - and that the unjust findings of Wratten and Day will finally be overturned.
Happy New Year to all - and raise a glass to absent friends.
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BEagle,
thank you, as always, for your kind words.
10 years......... Doesn't time fly when you're fighting for justice!
I hope that in this anniversary year, the MoD can see their way to removing this terrible and unjust allegation against Flt Lts Jon Tapper and Rick Cook.
If not..... well we all know how iritating I can be
As before, I guarantee my absolute support to the Tapper and Cook families. To our supporters, I can only say thank you very much for being there when we need you. We will need you again this year too!
Happy New Year to each and every one of you, regardless of your view of the accident.
My best, as always.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
thank you, as always, for your kind words.
10 years......... Doesn't time fly when you're fighting for justice!
I hope that in this anniversary year, the MoD can see their way to removing this terrible and unjust allegation against Flt Lts Jon Tapper and Rick Cook.
If not..... well we all know how iritating I can be
As before, I guarantee my absolute support to the Tapper and Cook families. To our supporters, I can only say thank you very much for being there when we need you. We will need you again this year too!
Happy New Year to each and every one of you, regardless of your view of the accident.
My best, as always.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
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Is this those nice people who stitched-up The Chinook Crew?
MoD prepares to fight Kelly compensation claim
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent and Matt Born
(Filed: 05/01/2004)
The Ministry of Defence has set up a team of lawyers to prepare for the outcome of the Hutton Inquiry by examining ways of countering any attempt by David Kelly's widow Janice to claim compensation over his death.
Mrs Kelly could claim a substantial sum for her husband's apparent suicide after he was exposed as the source of a BBC report that the Government's dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction had been "sexed up".
She could sue the MoD for the loss of her husband, his salary as a Government scientist, and possible future earnings.
Martin Hemming, who is heading the team, refused to comment yesterday on reports that it is planning to "fight dirty" by smearing the scientist, suggesting that he was mentally unstable for the last two years of his life.
An MoD spokesman said: "I cannot say what we might do if [Mrs Kelly] decides she wants to take action against us. It is really down to her whether she wants to take us to court."
While preparations to counter such a claim would be normal contingency planning, defence sources questioned whether many of the officials driving the MoD's response to Dr Kelly's suicide would still be in their posts after Lord Hutton delivers a report that is bound to be highly critical.
"You also have to wonder whether any attempt to portray David Kelly as mentally unstable would be a sensible approach," one source said.
"Not only did they get themselves into a terrible mess over the existence of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction but they did so knowing that one of the leading advisers was mentally unstable."
There was also controversy yesterday over the BBC's possible response if Lord Hutton criticises the corporation for its original story by the Today reporter Andrew Gilligan and its subsequent response to the affair.
The BBC reacted angrily to claims that its head of radio news, Stephen Mitchell, was being lined up as a fall guy for the corporation's role.
Richard Sambrook, the BBC director of news, said the article, which appeared in The Independent on Sunday, was "plain wrong".
Speculation that BBC chiefs were looking for someone to carry the blame have been rife since a senior executive last week refused to rule out resignations at the corporation over the Hutton Inquiry.
But the BBC yesterday insisted that the remarks by Caroline Thomson, its director of public policy, had been taken out of context.
Gilligan also issued a statement yesterday denying reports that claimed he was threatening to reveal how his bosses had urged him to "out" Dr Kelly, if they forced him to resign over Lord Hutton's report.
"It is outrageous to suggest that I am threatening anyone in the BBC," he said. Claims that he was in talks with publishers over a book about the Kelly affair were also unfounded, he said.
Is this those nice people who stitched-up The Chinook Crew
By Michael Smith, Defence Correspondent and Matt Born
(Filed: 05/01/2004)
The Ministry of Defence has set up a team of lawyers to prepare for the outcome of the Hutton Inquiry by examining ways of countering any attempt by David Kelly's widow Janice to claim compensation over his death.
Mrs Kelly could claim a substantial sum for her husband's apparent suicide after he was exposed as the source of a BBC report that the Government's dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction had been "sexed up".
She could sue the MoD for the loss of her husband, his salary as a Government scientist, and possible future earnings.
Martin Hemming, who is heading the team, refused to comment yesterday on reports that it is planning to "fight dirty" by smearing the scientist, suggesting that he was mentally unstable for the last two years of his life.
An MoD spokesman said: "I cannot say what we might do if [Mrs Kelly] decides she wants to take action against us. It is really down to her whether she wants to take us to court."
While preparations to counter such a claim would be normal contingency planning, defence sources questioned whether many of the officials driving the MoD's response to Dr Kelly's suicide would still be in their posts after Lord Hutton delivers a report that is bound to be highly critical.
"You also have to wonder whether any attempt to portray David Kelly as mentally unstable would be a sensible approach," one source said.
"Not only did they get themselves into a terrible mess over the existence of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction but they did so knowing that one of the leading advisers was mentally unstable."
There was also controversy yesterday over the BBC's possible response if Lord Hutton criticises the corporation for its original story by the Today reporter Andrew Gilligan and its subsequent response to the affair.
The BBC reacted angrily to claims that its head of radio news, Stephen Mitchell, was being lined up as a fall guy for the corporation's role.
Richard Sambrook, the BBC director of news, said the article, which appeared in The Independent on Sunday, was "plain wrong".
Speculation that BBC chiefs were looking for someone to carry the blame have been rife since a senior executive last week refused to rule out resignations at the corporation over the Hutton Inquiry.
But the BBC yesterday insisted that the remarks by Caroline Thomson, its director of public policy, had been taken out of context.
Gilligan also issued a statement yesterday denying reports that claimed he was threatening to reveal how his bosses had urged him to "out" Dr Kelly, if they forced him to resign over Lord Hutton's report.
"It is outrageous to suggest that I am threatening anyone in the BBC," he said. Claims that he was in talks with publishers over a book about the Kelly affair were also unfounded, he said.
Is this those nice people who stitched-up The Chinook Crew
Personally I've always had a suspicion that any verdict other than the grossly unjust one trumped up by Wratten and Day could have left MoD et al wide open to very substantial compensation claims from the relatives of the deceased.....
Corporate manslaughter as a result of carrying passengers in an aircraft over which there were known airworthiness concerns and which subsequently crashed in circumstances which have never been conclusively proven 'beyond any doubt whatsoever'?
Corporate manslaughter as a result of carrying passengers in an aircraft over which there were known airworthiness concerns and which subsequently crashed in circumstances which have never been conclusively proven 'beyond any doubt whatsoever'?