When was the RAF at its most capable?
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Must have been the days when exotic names just rolled off the tongue - Nicosia, Akrotiri, Muharraq, Sharjah, Salalah, Masirah, Khormaksar, Gan, Tengah, Seleta, Changi, etc. Holiday camps all over the globe. Magic days.
Alison
Alison
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If capability is defined by guaranteeing to DH a specific target, non-nuclear, regardless of weather or day/night then it has to be today.
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John Farley.
Are you really sure about your above post? While modern aircraft/systems are several orders better than what the RAF had in the 1960's, I can see a situation where the RAF need to attack a target, say 400 miles away, and with a moderate modern defence of SAMs. In that situation, it seems that today's RAF is just too small to be able to guarantee your DH.
Masses of canberras etc were not as accurate, but then I am reminded of Stalins comment on quantity.
On a different level, surely the vastly larger RAF of yesteryear was more effective in its deterrent role too.
Are you really sure about your above post? While modern aircraft/systems are several orders better than what the RAF had in the 1960's, I can see a situation where the RAF need to attack a target, say 400 miles away, and with a moderate modern defence of SAMs. In that situation, it seems that today's RAF is just too small to be able to guarantee your DH.
Masses of canberras etc were not as accurate, but then I am reminded of Stalins comment on quantity.
On a different level, surely the vastly larger RAF of yesteryear was more effective in its deterrent role too.
Cunning Artificer
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I'd be surprised if anyone who served there would describe Masirah, Salalah or Khormaksar as "holiday camps", Alison.
Gan is a holiday destination today, but I wonder how the tourists would feel if they were were conscripted and forced to remain there for 13 months?
Changi was very definitely a holiday camp. The best three years of my life. You forgot Kai Tak, Gibraltar and Luqa of course, and wisely left El Adem off your list of holiday spots. Labuan and Kuching would have been debatable.
Blacksheep was born at the best holiday camp in the entire British Empire. HMS Afrikander at Simon's Town, where we lived in the aptly named "Paradise Road" in the foreground below with the former Naval Base on the point in the distance. A four year tour of duty it was at that time, I don't know how Mam and Dad endured it!
Gan is a holiday destination today, but I wonder how the tourists would feel if they were were conscripted and forced to remain there for 13 months?
Changi was very definitely a holiday camp. The best three years of my life. You forgot Kai Tak, Gibraltar and Luqa of course, and wisely left El Adem off your list of holiday spots. Labuan and Kuching would have been debatable.
Blacksheep was born at the best holiday camp in the entire British Empire. HMS Afrikander at Simon's Town, where we lived in the aptly named "Paradise Road" in the foreground below with the former Naval Base on the point in the distance. A four year tour of duty it was at that time, I don't know how Mam and Dad endured it!
Indeed, I had a rather unhappy week there with glandular fever in 1990
Minigun
I've never heard it called that before! Didn't anyone tell you to stay away from the nurses!
Jack
Minigun
I've never heard it called that before! Didn't anyone tell you to stay away from the nurses!
Jack
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BS1968
You could also say that the RAF has shrunk in size at a time when many "younger" air forces have grown considerably in relative terms. 40 years ago Singapore didn't have an air force - now look at the one it has.
Whilst Singapore is happily unlikely to threaten Western political interests the same sadly can't be said for many other air forces which have grown in size, capability and wo could pose a threat either now or in the future.
Whilst you need FUEL, OXYGEN and a SOUCE OF COMBUSTION to create a FIRE whilst to pose a THREAT one only needs CAPABILITY + INTENTION.
All very worrying when the UK would IMO stuggle to deal even with a modest resurgence of PIRA activity in NI that required troops and support helos. I wonder what contingency plans there are for that at the current time? Particularly if it requires a sustained mission to aid the civil powers...
MB
You could also say that the RAF has shrunk in size at a time when many "younger" air forces have grown considerably in relative terms. 40 years ago Singapore didn't have an air force - now look at the one it has.
Whilst Singapore is happily unlikely to threaten Western political interests the same sadly can't be said for many other air forces which have grown in size, capability and wo could pose a threat either now or in the future.
Whilst you need FUEL, OXYGEN and a SOUCE OF COMBUSTION to create a FIRE whilst to pose a THREAT one only needs CAPABILITY + INTENTION.
All very worrying when the UK would IMO stuggle to deal even with a modest resurgence of PIRA activity in NI that required troops and support helos. I wonder what contingency plans there are for that at the current time? Particularly if it requires a sustained mission to aid the civil powers...
MB
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And between Murmansk and Tashkent at the same time.
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Troop numbers in NI
At the hight of the troubles in NI the UK Armed Forces deployed almost 30,000 personnel, with the Army having 27,000 of these.
UK forces in NI at the moment around 3,000 or so
Good job it will not kick off again or we will be in the Sh*t
UK forces in NI at the moment around 3,000 or so
Good job it will not kick off again or we will be in the Sh*t
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NI Troop numbers
I was only joking about the, it wont kick off again bit.
Yes I saw the news this morning
It does look very worrying and we only have one man and his dog out there.
Yes I saw the news this morning
It does look very worrying and we only have one man and his dog out there.
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Immediately post-BoB and up until Suez.
Re NI - and Scotland - and Wales - how about a British Federation with the current (German) Queen at the Head? A wee bit like what like the "rest of the Commonwealth" has perhaps!!!
Re NI - and Scotland - and Wales - how about a British Federation with the current (German) Queen at the Head? A wee bit like what like the "rest of the Commonwealth" has perhaps!!!
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barnstormer1968
If you Google RAF standoff weapons you will find no less an authority than the RAF would indicate that your request would be perfectly served by Storm Shadow. Nice choice of platforms to carry it too.
If you Google RAF standoff weapons you will find no less an authority than the RAF would indicate that your request would be perfectly served by Storm Shadow. Nice choice of platforms to carry it too.
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Hi John Farley.
I do think you know the point I was making. But did look up the google search you mention. I have no idea of an accurate range for storm shadow, but the site I visited quoted 155 miles from target. So, I am happy to concede that in my scenario (no opposing fighters/interceptors), the very meagre amount of aircraft we have (Nice choice of platforms to carry it to, is just pushing it too far I'm afraid) would do the job.
Back to my dream world, and just imagine the damage a multitude of Canberra squadrons could have done with it
I do think you know the point I was making. But did look up the google search you mention. I have no idea of an accurate range for storm shadow, but the site I visited quoted 155 miles from target. So, I am happy to concede that in my scenario (no opposing fighters/interceptors), the very meagre amount of aircraft we have (Nice choice of platforms to carry it to, is just pushing it too far I'm afraid
) would do the job.Back to my dream world, and just imagine the damage a multitude of Canberra squadrons could have done with it
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To go off on a slightly different tangent from the original posting.
How many air defence aircraft do we have on QRA for the defence of the UK, say a force of 20 - 30 enemy aircraft where to attack us, could we with what we have available attack and destroy all off them before they reached us and if not how long would it take to launch back up aircraft or land, rearm and relaunch the QRA flights... surely this is every bit as important as how many aircraft we have to fight a war in some far flung corner of the world.
It may sound a touch paranoid but what if was Al-queda taking over even half-a-dozen airliners as in the attack on the America, I don't think we have the ability to adequately defend this country from attack far less worry about fighting a war....
Peter
How many air defence aircraft do we have on QRA for the defence of the UK, say a force of 20 - 30 enemy aircraft where to attack us, could we with what we have available attack and destroy all off them before they reached us and if not how long would it take to launch back up aircraft or land, rearm and relaunch the QRA flights... surely this is every bit as important as how many aircraft we have to fight a war in some far flung corner of the world.
It may sound a touch paranoid but what if was Al-queda taking over even half-a-dozen airliners as in the attack on the America, I don't think we have the ability to adequately defend this country from attack far less worry about fighting a war....
Peter
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Holiday camps
Alison:
Must have been the days when exotic names just rolled off the tongue - Nicosia, Akrotiri, Muharraq, Sharjah, Salalah, Masirah, Khormaksar, Gan, Tengah, Seleta, Changi, etc. Holiday camps all over the globe. Magic days.
No mention of Eastleigh, Nairobi sat in Gods country, now that was a joy, PH
Must have been the days when exotic names just rolled off the tongue - Nicosia, Akrotiri, Muharraq, Sharjah, Salalah, Masirah, Khormaksar, Gan, Tengah, Seleta, Changi, etc. Holiday camps all over the globe. Magic days.
No mention of Eastleigh, Nairobi sat in Gods country, now that was a joy, PH
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
How many air defence aircraft do we have on QRA for the defence of the UK, say a force of 20 - 30 enemy aircraft where to attack us, could we with what we have available attack and destroy all off them before they reached us and if not how long would it take to launch back up aircraft or land, rearm and relaunch the QRA flights
It may sound a touch paranoid but what if was Al-queda taking over even half-a-dozen airliners as in the attack on the America,.
I don't think we have the ability to adequately defend this country from attack far less worry about fighting a war...
Other than a hijacked airliner any other attacking force, with the exceptions of the French and the Irish, would not have the reach without first overflying our European allies. Air defence is done in depth and not a stand-alone force.