When was the RAF at its most capable?
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When was the RAF at its most capable?
My time in the RAF spanned 10 years from 1979 which co-incided with the last 10 years of the "cold war"....
Even so, this period was one of cuts and a continuous reduction in the numbers of service personnel and bases. My speculation is that 1974/5 was probably when the RAF was at its peak and ever since we have been growing weaker in spite of what the government says.
Whilst technology has improved, and smart weapons, UAV's, missiles with multiple warheads, NVG's etc. have improved the "hitting" power the sheer reduction in personell and not having sufficient platforms means that we can no longer project, let alone sustain, the capabilities we once had.
The saddest part in all of this is the fact that the reduction in our military capability has not been matched by a similar reduction in the threats that we face in what is subjectively a more unstable world.
Is this just a rose-tinted view, or were things so much better in the 1970's compared to today? It would be interesting to know what RUSI and Staff College experts have to say.....we would be hard pressed to cope with a flare-up of the NI Troubles and a resurgence of terrorism at "the back door" let alone deal with another FI Conflict....
MB
Even so, this period was one of cuts and a continuous reduction in the numbers of service personnel and bases. My speculation is that 1974/5 was probably when the RAF was at its peak and ever since we have been growing weaker in spite of what the government says.
Whilst technology has improved, and smart weapons, UAV's, missiles with multiple warheads, NVG's etc. have improved the "hitting" power the sheer reduction in personell and not having sufficient platforms means that we can no longer project, let alone sustain, the capabilities we once had.
The saddest part in all of this is the fact that the reduction in our military capability has not been matched by a similar reduction in the threats that we face in what is subjectively a more unstable world.
Is this just a rose-tinted view, or were things so much better in the 1970's compared to today? It would be interesting to know what RUSI and Staff College experts have to say.....we would be hard pressed to cope with a flare-up of the NI Troubles and a resurgence of terrorism at "the back door" let alone deal with another FI Conflict....
MB
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Roughly, 1970-75 gets my vote, lots of still very potent legacy stuff plus shiny new Harriers, Jags, Phantoms, Buccs, Nimrods and Hercs. Rotary, Puma and Sea King. Must be others.
1) In absolute terms (how much destruction the force could wreak, coupled with capability of platforms, etc.) 1988-ish - before the Cold War cuts, before the withdrawal of WE177, and when the Tornado was still cutting edge and credible.
2) Relatively speaking, you'd draw a different conclusion.
1955-ish.
Prior to the massive down-sizing of RAF Germany, disbandment of the 21 Squadrons of the RAuxAF, and the reductions in home-based fighters. Bomber Command was looking to get the V-bombers, and had a vast force of Canberras, which were still more than capable of evading interception, and delivering a 'hammer blow', albeit with US supplied nukes.
I'm puzzled for the votes for the early 70s - surely nothing had improved since the mid-60s, and there had been significant reductions in force structure.
2) Relatively speaking, you'd draw a different conclusion.
1955-ish.
Prior to the massive down-sizing of RAF Germany, disbandment of the 21 Squadrons of the RAuxAF, and the reductions in home-based fighters. Bomber Command was looking to get the V-bombers, and had a vast force of Canberras, which were still more than capable of evading interception, and delivering a 'hammer blow', albeit with US supplied nukes.
I'm puzzled for the votes for the early 70s - surely nothing had improved since the mid-60s, and there had been significant reductions in force structure.
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Mingundiplomat has hit the nail firmly on the head. Whilst Defence cuts of the sixties and even the infamous beating of '75 had a profound effect, it is quite possible that we were overmanned and could afford the housekeeping.
The blank cheques dissapeared with GW1 and the overswing of new found budgets promoted a 'Cannot do' culture, alien to military ethos. Blunties rapidly became the master-race and the front line became (wrongly) insignificantly secondary to Pounds, Shillings and Pence. There should be no surprise that the present day loss of life is attributed rightly or wrongly to insufficient equipment for both personnel and task.
One needs to be aware that few contributers to Pprune have experience of the military prior to the mid seventies, and those that do are often overwhelmed with the nostalgia of once belonging to an armed force built upon a pride difficult to find nowadays. Apologies if that sounds over patronising; perhaps the sentiment could have been worded better.
The blank cheques dissapeared with GW1 and the overswing of new found budgets promoted a 'Cannot do' culture, alien to military ethos. Blunties rapidly became the master-race and the front line became (wrongly) insignificantly secondary to Pounds, Shillings and Pence. There should be no surprise that the present day loss of life is attributed rightly or wrongly to insufficient equipment for both personnel and task.
One needs to be aware that few contributers to Pprune have experience of the military prior to the mid seventies, and those that do are often overwhelmed with the nostalgia of once belonging to an armed force built upon a pride difficult to find nowadays. Apologies if that sounds over patronising; perhaps the sentiment could have been worded better.
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When we had an air force with support bases to match!
How about as of summer of 1974.......
35 different aircraft types.....
1 Sqn Wittering – HS Harrier
2 Sqn Laarbruch – McD Phantom
3 Sqn Wildenrath – HS Harrier
4 Sqn Wildenrath – HS Harrier
5 Sqn Binbrook – BAC Lightning
6 Sqn Coningsby – McD Phantom
7 Sqn St.Mawgan – BAC Canberra
8 Sqn Lossiemouth – Avro Shackteton
9 Sqn Akrotiri – HS Vulcan
10 Sqn Brize Norton – BAC VC.10
11 Sqn Binbrook – BAC Lightning
12 Sqn Honington – HS Buccaneer
13 Sqn Luqa – BAC Canberra
14 Sqn Bruggen – McD Phantom
15 Sqn Laarbruch – HS Buccaneer
16 Sqn Laarbruch – HS Buccaneer
17 Sqn Bruggen – McD Phantom
18 Sqn Gutersloh – Westland Wessex
19 Sqn Gutersloh – BAC Lightning
20 Sqn Wildenrath – HS Harrier
21 Sqn Andover – DH Devon
22 Sqn Thorney Island – Westland Whirlwind
23 Sqn Leuchars – BAC Lightning
24 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
26 Sqn Wyton – DH Devon
27 Sqn Scampton – HS Vulcan
28 Sqn Kai Tak – Westland Wessex
29 Sqn Wattisham – BAC Lightning
30 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
31 Sqn Bruggen – McD Phantom
32 Sqn Northolt – HS Andover, HS125, Westland Whirlwind
33 Sqn Odiham – Westland Puma
35 Sqn Akrotiri – HS Vulcan
36 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
39 Sqn Wyton – BAC Canberra
41 Sqn Coningsby – McD Phantom
42 Sqn St.Mawgan – HS Nimrod
43 Sqn Leuchars – McD Phantom
44 Sqn Waddington – HS Vulcan
45 Sqn Wittering – HS Hunter
46 Sqn Thorney Island – HS Andover
47 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
48 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
50 Sqn Waddington – HS Vulcan
51 Sqn Wyton – BAC Canberra, HS Nimrod
53 Sqn Brize Norton – Short Belfast
54 Sqn Coltishall – BAC Jaguar
55 Sqn Marham – HP Victor
56 Sqn Akrotiri – BAC Lightning
57 Sqn Marham – HP Victor
58 Sqn Wittering – HS Hunter
60 Sqn Wildenrath – Hunting Pembroke, HS Andover
70 Sqn Akrotiri – Lockheed Hercules, HS Argosy
72 Sqn Odiham – Westland Wessex
84 Sqn Akrotiri – Westland Whirlwind
85 Sqn West Raynham – BAC Canberra
92 Sqn Gutersloh – BAC Lightning
98 Sqn Cottesmore – BAC Canberra
99 Sqn Brize Norton – Bristol Britannia
100 Sqn West Raynham – BAC Canberra
101 Sqn Waddington – HS Vulcan
103 Sqn Tenagh – Westland Wessex
111 Sqn Coningsby – McD Phantom
115 Sqn Cottesmore – HS Argosy
120 Sqn Kinloss – HS Nimrod
201 Sqn Kinloss – HS Nimrod
202 Sqn Leconfield – Westland Whirlwind
203 Sqn Luqa – HS Nimrod
206 Sqn Kinloss – HS Nimrod
207 Sqn Northolt – DH Devon, Hunting Pembroke
208 Sqn Honington – HS Buccaneer
214 Sqn Marham – HP Victor
216 Sqn Lyneham – DH Comet
230 Sqn Odiham – Westland Puma
360 Sqn Cottesmore – BAC Canberra
511 Sqn Brize Norton – Bristol Britannia
617 Sqn Scampton – HS Vulcan
226 OCU Coltishall – BAC Lightning [soon to be Jaguar]
228 OCU Coningsby – McD Phantom
229 OCU(TWU) Brawdy – HS Hunter
230 OCU Scampton – HS Vulcan
231 OCU Cottesmore – BAC Canberra
232 OCU Marham – HP Victor
233 OCU Wittering – HS Harrier
236 OCU St.Mawgan – HS Nimrod
237 OCU Honington – HS Buccaneer
240 OCU Odiham – Westland Wessex, Westland Puma
241 OCU Brize Norton – Belfast, Britannia, Comet and VC.10 as required
242 OCU Thorney Island – HS Andover, Lockheed Hercules
1 FTS Linton-On-Ouze – BAC Jet Provost
2 FTS Church Fenton – DHC Chipmunk, Bulldog
3 FTS Leeming – BAC Jet Provost
4 FTS Valley – HS Gnat, HS Hunter
5 FTS Oakington – Vickers Varsity, Jetstream
6 FTS Finningley – HS Dominie, Varsity, BAC Jet Provost
CFS Little Rissington, Kemble and Ternhill
5 MU Kemble
19 MU St.Athan
23 MU Sydenham
27 MU Shawbury
32 MU St.Athan
60 MU Leconfield
71 MU Bicester
103 MU Akrotiri
431 MU Bruggen
PS. Thanks to GeeRam for his original post....
MB
35 different aircraft types.....
1 Sqn Wittering – HS Harrier
2 Sqn Laarbruch – McD Phantom
3 Sqn Wildenrath – HS Harrier
4 Sqn Wildenrath – HS Harrier
5 Sqn Binbrook – BAC Lightning
6 Sqn Coningsby – McD Phantom
7 Sqn St.Mawgan – BAC Canberra
8 Sqn Lossiemouth – Avro Shackteton
9 Sqn Akrotiri – HS Vulcan
10 Sqn Brize Norton – BAC VC.10
11 Sqn Binbrook – BAC Lightning
12 Sqn Honington – HS Buccaneer
13 Sqn Luqa – BAC Canberra
14 Sqn Bruggen – McD Phantom
15 Sqn Laarbruch – HS Buccaneer
16 Sqn Laarbruch – HS Buccaneer
17 Sqn Bruggen – McD Phantom
18 Sqn Gutersloh – Westland Wessex
19 Sqn Gutersloh – BAC Lightning
20 Sqn Wildenrath – HS Harrier
21 Sqn Andover – DH Devon
22 Sqn Thorney Island – Westland Whirlwind
23 Sqn Leuchars – BAC Lightning
24 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
26 Sqn Wyton – DH Devon
27 Sqn Scampton – HS Vulcan
28 Sqn Kai Tak – Westland Wessex
29 Sqn Wattisham – BAC Lightning
30 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
31 Sqn Bruggen – McD Phantom
32 Sqn Northolt – HS Andover, HS125, Westland Whirlwind
33 Sqn Odiham – Westland Puma
35 Sqn Akrotiri – HS Vulcan
36 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
39 Sqn Wyton – BAC Canberra
41 Sqn Coningsby – McD Phantom
42 Sqn St.Mawgan – HS Nimrod
43 Sqn Leuchars – McD Phantom
44 Sqn Waddington – HS Vulcan
45 Sqn Wittering – HS Hunter
46 Sqn Thorney Island – HS Andover
47 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
48 Sqn Lyneham – Lockheed Hercules
50 Sqn Waddington – HS Vulcan
51 Sqn Wyton – BAC Canberra, HS Nimrod
53 Sqn Brize Norton – Short Belfast
54 Sqn Coltishall – BAC Jaguar
55 Sqn Marham – HP Victor
56 Sqn Akrotiri – BAC Lightning
57 Sqn Marham – HP Victor
58 Sqn Wittering – HS Hunter
60 Sqn Wildenrath – Hunting Pembroke, HS Andover
70 Sqn Akrotiri – Lockheed Hercules, HS Argosy
72 Sqn Odiham – Westland Wessex
84 Sqn Akrotiri – Westland Whirlwind
85 Sqn West Raynham – BAC Canberra
92 Sqn Gutersloh – BAC Lightning
98 Sqn Cottesmore – BAC Canberra
99 Sqn Brize Norton – Bristol Britannia
100 Sqn West Raynham – BAC Canberra
101 Sqn Waddington – HS Vulcan
103 Sqn Tenagh – Westland Wessex
111 Sqn Coningsby – McD Phantom
115 Sqn Cottesmore – HS Argosy
120 Sqn Kinloss – HS Nimrod
201 Sqn Kinloss – HS Nimrod
202 Sqn Leconfield – Westland Whirlwind
203 Sqn Luqa – HS Nimrod
206 Sqn Kinloss – HS Nimrod
207 Sqn Northolt – DH Devon, Hunting Pembroke
208 Sqn Honington – HS Buccaneer
214 Sqn Marham – HP Victor
216 Sqn Lyneham – DH Comet
230 Sqn Odiham – Westland Puma
360 Sqn Cottesmore – BAC Canberra
511 Sqn Brize Norton – Bristol Britannia
617 Sqn Scampton – HS Vulcan
226 OCU Coltishall – BAC Lightning [soon to be Jaguar]
228 OCU Coningsby – McD Phantom
229 OCU(TWU) Brawdy – HS Hunter
230 OCU Scampton – HS Vulcan
231 OCU Cottesmore – BAC Canberra
232 OCU Marham – HP Victor
233 OCU Wittering – HS Harrier
236 OCU St.Mawgan – HS Nimrod
237 OCU Honington – HS Buccaneer
240 OCU Odiham – Westland Wessex, Westland Puma
241 OCU Brize Norton – Belfast, Britannia, Comet and VC.10 as required
242 OCU Thorney Island – HS Andover, Lockheed Hercules
1 FTS Linton-On-Ouze – BAC Jet Provost
2 FTS Church Fenton – DHC Chipmunk, Bulldog
3 FTS Leeming – BAC Jet Provost
4 FTS Valley – HS Gnat, HS Hunter
5 FTS Oakington – Vickers Varsity, Jetstream
6 FTS Finningley – HS Dominie, Varsity, BAC Jet Provost
CFS Little Rissington, Kemble and Ternhill
5 MU Kemble
19 MU St.Athan
23 MU Sydenham
27 MU Shawbury
32 MU St.Athan
60 MU Leconfield
71 MU Bicester
103 MU Akrotiri
431 MU Bruggen
PS. Thanks to GeeRam for his original post....
MB
Madbob,
The memories stirred up by your post brought tears to my eyes!
I, too, was going to suggest 1974 as that was the year we were all wheeled in to the Station Briefing Room to be informed by the Staish of the planned British withdrawl from East of Suez. For the remaining 20-odd years of my service all I saw were cuts, drawdowns, retrenchment, downsizing, civilianisation, overstretch, etc, etc.
Looking at your list it is incredible to to see what has been lost forever. I know they say that nostalgia isn't what it used to be, but when you look at that list of aircraft, squadrons and RAF Stations we were a worldwide force to be reckoned with in those days. (And we had fun too!).
The memories stirred up by your post brought tears to my eyes!
I, too, was going to suggest 1974 as that was the year we were all wheeled in to the Station Briefing Room to be informed by the Staish of the planned British withdrawl from East of Suez. For the remaining 20-odd years of my service all I saw were cuts, drawdowns, retrenchment, downsizing, civilianisation, overstretch, etc, etc.
Looking at your list it is incredible to to see what has been lost forever. I know they say that nostalgia isn't what it used to be, but when you look at that list of aircraft, squadrons and RAF Stations we were a worldwide force to be reckoned with in those days. (And we had fun too!).
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I, too, was going to suggest 1974 as that was the year we were all wheeled in to the Station Briefing Room to be informed by the Staish of the planned British withdrawl from East of Suez.
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1968. The only year since the establishment of the Royal Air Force in which not one single British serviceman was killed in action anywhere in the world.
Our politicians had been wise enough not to get us suckered into The American War in Vietnam and Norn Iron hadn't yet kicked off.
The Phoney War against the Russian Bear had enabled the acquisition of some serious kick-arse kit, such as Vulcan, Lightning and the 'toom, but we had no-one fighting against us. (Ok, a few sand bunnies in Oman and Aden, and the odd jungle bunny in Sarawak, but nothing to worry about)
Oh yes, and we had buckets of sunshine which didn't need some code to be issued by the politicians, just use a screwdriver to open a couple of Dzus fasteners, then use a bicycle key to arm to blighter and then turn a couple of knobs to select airburst or groundburst and choose the desired yield.
Marvellous! Happy days!!
Our politicians had been wise enough not to get us suckered into The American War in Vietnam and Norn Iron hadn't yet kicked off.
The Phoney War against the Russian Bear had enabled the acquisition of some serious kick-arse kit, such as Vulcan, Lightning and the 'toom, but we had no-one fighting against us. (Ok, a few sand bunnies in Oman and Aden, and the odd jungle bunny in Sarawak, but nothing to worry about)
Oh yes, and we had buckets of sunshine which didn't need some code to be issued by the politicians, just use a screwdriver to open a couple of Dzus fasteners, then use a bicycle key to arm to blighter and then turn a couple of knobs to select airburst or groundburst and choose the desired yield.
Marvellous! Happy days!!
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I'm puzzled for the votes for the early 70s - surely nothing had improved since the mid-60s, and there had been significant reductions in force structure.
How about as of summer of 1974.......
era.Then came the cuts........which have never stopped.
But we did still have over 30 stations more than today - in the UK alone...
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1968. The only year since the establishment of the Royal Air Force in which not one single British serviceman was killed in action anywhere in the world.
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What about all the RAF Hospitals.
Wegberg
Akroteri (Still there)
Ely
Nocton Hall
Halton
Wroughton
Cosford
Supporting all Trades Branches & Families.
Long gone.
CS
Wegberg
Akroteri (Still there)
Ely
Nocton Hall
Halton
Wroughton
Cosford
Supporting all Trades Branches & Families.
Long gone.
CS
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izod tester
I could also have included the many RAF Hospitals we used to have......Wegberg, Nocton Hall, Ely, Wroughton, Catterick, Halton are all gone.
Only Akritiri I think survives on a joint RAF/Army basis. We sure could do with them now!
MB
Only Akritiri I think survives on a joint RAF/Army basis. We sure could do with them now!
MB