SNCO Aircrew
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Can you train for airmanship? Do you receive airmanship classes during flying training?
By the way I am not a WSop, I am an Air Eng(B) until I assimilate.
I'm sorry my English and spelling are not up to your standard, but then again I am just a big thick northern monkey. I did manage to pass OASC, AAITC and the Air Eng course in one go though. I even managed to get an above average cat on the Tristar.
I am an ex Tristar GE
BTW stewards are not aircrew.
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I found that airmanship developed through experiance and not in a classroom. Oh and by the way Sideshow can you answer my question? Why can you ask if AEOps can be replaced by groundcrew but AEngs cannot(they could gain the licences if needed)? Not a ridiculous question I think but then I am only a thick Northern Monkey/AEOp.
PS What's an Air Eng(B)?
PS What's an Air Eng(B)?
Last edited by rockiesqiud; 29th Sep 2009 at 13:12. Reason: Spelling
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Not if you remuster to ALM, plenty of room for you guys. Those that have are, in my experience, top guys and we could do with a few more like it.
Anyone else on here get the feeling that maybe a certain ex Captain has had the grass mowed out from underneath him by us baldric's maybe one or two times too many, would explain a few things
Anyone else on here get the feeling that maybe a certain ex Captain has had the grass mowed out from underneath him by us baldric's maybe one or two times too many, would explain a few things
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I found that airmanship developed through experiance and not in a classroom.
they could gain the licences if needed
What's an Air Eng(B)?
Air Eng(B) Post 1986 TORs
I'm not unemployed till 2023 thanks.
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Sideshow
You've still not answered my question? And 13 flights on applied flight does not make you an expert on airmanship. I had 15 and still c£"k up!
As for Air Eng A and B, please for my benefit enlighten me to the tors!
You've still not answered my question? And 13 flights on applied flight does not make you an expert on airmanship. I had 15 and still c£"k up!
As for Air Eng A and B, please for my benefit enlighten me to the tors!
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Thanks TG,
Contaminated cabin air must be working it's magic on my memory.
rockiesqiud
AP3392 or whatever the JPA equivalent is. Feel free to look it up. The A & B was user to distinguish between those on the old terms and those on the new terms way before WSops were thought of.
By the way, are you telling me you had received airmanship training from your flying instructor? Very Odd, perhaps that's why you needed 15 flights.
Contaminated cabin air must be working it's magic on my memory.
rockiesqiud
AP3392 or whatever the JPA equivalent is. Feel free to look it up. The A & B was user to distinguish between those on the old terms and those on the new terms way before WSops were thought of.
By the way, are you telling me you had received airmanship training from your flying instructor? Very Odd, perhaps that's why you needed 15 flights.
Last edited by Sideshow Bob; 29th Sep 2009 at 16:27.
To put it bluntly, that chap BEagle referred to sounds to me a bit like the prat down the pub who people gradually move away from.
As one of the relatively few drivers (airframe) who could be ar$ed to spend a fair while talking through snags with the squadron groundcrew, it was always very rewarding when we could pin down a snag and get it sorted as a result.
Unlike 'Thrombo' who once wrote 'Autopilot U/S' without any detailed debrief.....
Quite what the techies were supposed to make of that....Mind you, he did get his comeuppance once. Wrestling with some elusive crew-in snag, the exasperated techie announced - "Sorry, it's f*cked!"
"What sort of a debrief do you call that, corporal", Thrombo demanded, "be more specific!"
"The f*ck*ng f*ck*er's well f*ck*d, SIR!" came the reply.
"Right, I will talk to SEngO when I get back!"
A few hours later....
Ring, ring..."Hello, Sqn Ldr (Thrombo) speaking!"
"Ah, Thrombo, just thought you'd like to know that we looked further into your snag and I can report that the f*ck*ng f*ck*er was indeed f*ck*d. Totally, in fact. And my corporal's diagnosis was entirely accurate - now, get f*ck*d yourself!".
Re. airmanship and/or 'Threat and Error Management', I think it's reasonable to assume that the basics can be taught, including the methodology, but that experience further enhances airmanship. Fair enough?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
No amount of classroom talk and chalk could have prepared mme for a fault that would reoccur 25 years on.
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^^^Again, logic defeats an argument, not volume! so stop being offensive.
Beagle, thanks for the reply - the chap obviously was the type of individual I alluded to earlier then
Beagle, thanks for the reply - the chap obviously was the type of individual I alluded to earlier then
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I bet 10 minutes for the thread he started but I guess the MOD's have not seen this post, it's rather rude but I have some sympathy with the sentiment 
Bugger the MOD's are bloody sharp on here
Bugger the MOD's are bloody sharp on here
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Training and experience are key elements of airmanship, but the most important is attitude.
You have to want to inhabit and display good airmanship, it doesn't happen by accident....
Oh and being rude to the Ground crew isn't reserved for the officers, although I became very polite to them after I spent a long, lonely hour trying to put the blade-tip tie-downs on a Wessex in a howling Blizzard with a large audience in the warm and dry crew-room - Lesson learnt!
You have to want to inhabit and display good airmanship, it doesn't happen by accident....
Oh and being rude to the Ground crew isn't reserved for the officers, although I became very polite to them after I spent a long, lonely hour trying to put the blade-tip tie-downs on a Wessex in a howling Blizzard with a large audience in the warm and dry crew-room - Lesson learnt!
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Being obnoxious to the groundcrew resulted in a winchman being re-educated in the Falklands, one Christmas Day. They got hold of him, stripped him down, and bodge-taped him to an aluminium ladder. He spent the rest of the day accompanying the GCs to all the parties the other sections threw, mostly propped up in a corner. The boys had thought it through - there was even a "Modesty Hatch" in the front of the tape in case the lad needed to, er, "go".........
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rockiesqiud
Morning mate, look at post 18 and post 65, if a GE gained the required licence or completed a recognised flying course to gain dispensation from the ANO and to conform with JSP 550, he would then be an Air Eng, the same as the rest of the ex Techies who are now Air Eng including me (F**ked Back desk Jockey)
Morning mate, look at post 18 and post 65, if a GE gained the required licence or completed a recognised flying course to gain dispensation from the ANO and to conform with JSP 550, he would then be an Air Eng, the same as the rest of the ex Techies who are now Air Eng including me (F**ked Back desk Jockey)
Last edited by Sideshow Bob; 30th Sep 2009 at 09:39.
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I don't think my argument lacks substance; people in the front of plane require licences in civvy street therefore they are required to be aircrew. Passengers in the back of the plane don't need licences in civvy street therefore don't need to be aircrew. Simple really 