Bringing home the crew of KL654.
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The Commonwealth War Graves Commission will only investigate and exhume if there is planned disturbance to a crash site (building work, motorways, etc) It doesn’t matter to them that the bodies were being plundered and disturbed regularly. Making the crash site a Heritage Site or having any sort of protection simply won’t work because it can’t be enforced.
Naming and shaming will happen in the report but it's not really a finger pointing session.
Those in the JCCC that responded did so explaining that their hands were tied when it came to their own jurisdiction. There was a fair bit of fobbing off but they really are powerless due to government legislation on the subject.
Questions were asked and the MoD reply was not at all anywhere near truthful.
I’m pretty sure that the government and MoD will have an internal battle about who is at fault but the answers will be clearly presented and easily understood by anyone that reads the evidence in the report.
I couldn’t possibly say more at this moment because these forums are monitored by hacks and we can’t afford to blow it open just yet.
We have recovered an inordinate amount of information and personal effects of the crew. Unfortunately we won’t be drawn on making a statement about the crew until we have the medical reports from the hospital. It would be unprofessional and uncompassionate to mention it on a forum before the evidence we are waiting on has been presented to the relatives.
Thanks for all of your support
Clayton and Ed
Naming and shaming will happen in the report but it's not really a finger pointing session.
Those in the JCCC that responded did so explaining that their hands were tied when it came to their own jurisdiction. There was a fair bit of fobbing off but they really are powerless due to government legislation on the subject.
Questions were asked and the MoD reply was not at all anywhere near truthful.
I’m pretty sure that the government and MoD will have an internal battle about who is at fault but the answers will be clearly presented and easily understood by anyone that reads the evidence in the report.
I couldn’t possibly say more at this moment because these forums are monitored by hacks and we can’t afford to blow it open just yet.
We have recovered an inordinate amount of information and personal effects of the crew. Unfortunately we won’t be drawn on making a statement about the crew until we have the medical reports from the hospital. It would be unprofessional and uncompassionate to mention it on a forum before the evidence we are waiting on has been presented to the relatives.
Thanks for all of your support
Clayton and Ed
Thread Starter
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These men are our professional ancestors, they subscribed to the same club that we did and we share much with them. They may not be the high profile glorious dead that we are usually minded to think about each November, but they are still our dead.
We spend millions reburying the WW1 dead from Belgium but it strikes me (at the absolute best and at my most charitable) as maladministration – and maladministration of a particularly self-regarding and suspect kind – for the MoD to acknowledge that the dead in one particular area are worthy of its attention when the spotlight is on that particular matter, but to completely ignore the dead when the spotlight is absent, in another.
We spend millions reburying the WW1 dead from Belgium but it strikes me (at the absolute best and at my most charitable) as maladministration – and maladministration of a particularly self-regarding and suspect kind – for the MoD to acknowledge that the dead in one particular area are worthy of its attention when the spotlight is on that particular matter, but to completely ignore the dead when the spotlight is absent, in another.
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Long ago
I am all with you on the fact that the relatives where not informed of the crash site and that it is despicable. It seems that others are taking the outcome out of the familys hands. Is it not best after so many years that the remains should NOT be DNA identified. They where all on the plane, they all died, some remains may not been present due to circumstances on board the aircraft then what happens? That family doesn't see thier boy rest in peace. Lay them to rest together in a suitable military site. It is nice to know what happened but maybe making it a heritage site would have been suitable. It really is in the middle of a vast jungle. But it was too late to ask the familys what they wanted once the site had been disturbed.
Also some complete idiot has written an article about what was being said on the aircraft before it crashed. I found it on line..bang out of order, nobody new and the writer did not know the men on board so it is poor taste and very distressing to read when it is totally fabricated.
Perhaps the MOD will learn from their errors and deal with things in a more streamlined way from now on..we shouldn't NEED to have these men home after 60 plus years but we do need them laid to rest and left in peace in a suitable militery fashion. Just my view.
Also some complete idiot has written an article about what was being said on the aircraft before it crashed. I found it on line..bang out of order, nobody new and the writer did not know the men on board so it is poor taste and very distressing to read when it is totally fabricated.
Perhaps the MOD will learn from their errors and deal with things in a more streamlined way from now on..we shouldn't NEED to have these men home after 60 plus years but we do need them laid to rest and left in peace in a suitable militery fashion. Just my view.
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The Americans have the right approach with such things.
Finally this crew can rest in peace.
Nemesis of the Proot Dynasty
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My family have recently served in the British and U.S. Military and it never ceases to amaze me that we treat (or don't treat) our military dead with the care and consideration which the U.S. military do.
The same attitude applies to our veterans and U.S. veterans. In many respects, U.S. veterans, are still regarded as 'serving' (e.g. may use base BXs wherever they live, may avail themselves of 'A Dollar Down' mortgage etc.). What do we have? Damn all, unless we are a recovering casualty, and how long will medical care be available before recovering casualties are shunted off to the NHS?
As more than one person has said, watch the HBO movie "Taking Chance" if you can. It had me in tears and I don't admit to that very often.
The same attitude applies to our veterans and U.S. veterans. In many respects, U.S. veterans, are still regarded as 'serving' (e.g. may use base BXs wherever they live, may avail themselves of 'A Dollar Down' mortgage etc.). What do we have? Damn all, unless we are a recovering casualty, and how long will medical care be available before recovering casualties are shunted off to the NHS?
As more than one person has said, watch the HBO movie "Taking Chance" if you can. It had me in tears and I don't admit to that very often.
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The crew of KL654 were finally laid to rest in the CWGC Cemetery at Cheras Road, Kuala Lumpur this morning.
Final farewell
Main - Malaysia - Burial for WW2 air crash victims after 67 years @ Thu Oct 18 2012
Final farewell
Main - Malaysia - Burial for WW2 air crash victims after 67 years @ Thu Oct 18 2012
Last edited by lauriebe; 18th Oct 2012 at 05:22.
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Originally Posted by Traffic
To see how the Americans do it check out the film "Taking Chance" starring Kevin Bacon, (based on a true story). If it doesn't bring a tear to your eye, nothing will. It is an absolute gem!
Talk is cheap and this 'We never leave anyone behind' rubbish is a great sound bite but the reality is excreta happens and yes the Americans have previous for leaving behind American soldiers, some alive, some dead.
Regarding our own proud nation then I salute those involved in this repatriation but I will not hold my breath regarding any 'Naming and shaming' as to me government officials make teflon look abrasive. No one will ever be held accountable or be disciplined for this cold blooded, unbelievable denial of what appear to be facts relating to the identity of that aircraft.
But what about the missing Royal Navy sailor, he might not have been shot down, or gone missing in action but the bottom line is this serviceman is missing whilst deployed abroad and surely this recovery deserves better?
Beyond belief that a countries government would be so eager to send their people to war, yet years later have a policy to do nothing to pay them proper respect. I didn't think there was much that could make me dispise politicians more.
The reverse of that is the pride the people who achieved giving these men the honour they deserved should feel. You are more than the politicians who made the decisions that bought this situation will ever be.
To the crew , Rest In Peace gentleman knowing people you fought for bought you to a place of peace..
The reverse of that is the pride the people who achieved giving these men the honour they deserved should feel. You are more than the politicians who made the decisions that bought this situation will ever be.
To the crew , Rest In Peace gentleman knowing people you fought for bought you to a place of peace..
Last edited by ozbiggles; 18th Oct 2012 at 11:59.
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KL654 Funeral
"Beyond belief that a countries government would be so eager to send their people to war, yet years later have a policy to do nothing to pay them proper respect."
Lets give the RAF & JCCC and the Govt that funds them some credit. Whilst many believe we should still be looking for our fallen, the defence budget is limited and has many other demands upon it. Extensive efforts were made at the end of both WW1 and WW11 to find the bodies of missing and MBK British personnel.
The fact is now that these brave men have been recovered they have been given a full military funeral overseas and laid to rest in a service conducted by an RAF Padre and the QCS, with a senior diplomat and relatives in attendance. I assume the MoD will have paid for the relatives to attend (They have certainly done so in the past). Given current commitments that is no small undertaking. TT
Lets give the RAF & JCCC and the Govt that funds them some credit. Whilst many believe we should still be looking for our fallen, the defence budget is limited and has many other demands upon it. Extensive efforts were made at the end of both WW1 and WW11 to find the bodies of missing and MBK British personnel.
The fact is now that these brave men have been recovered they have been given a full military funeral overseas and laid to rest in a service conducted by an RAF Padre and the QCS, with a senior diplomat and relatives in attendance. I assume the MoD will have paid for the relatives to attend (They have certainly done so in the past). Given current commitments that is no small undertaking. TT
Last edited by Topsy Turvey; 18th Oct 2012 at 18:32.
My beef is not with that part.
Who did the hard work and paid the money to get it to that stage?
There was good evidence once the aircraft wreck was found of who was there. It shouldn't be up to volunteers to retrieve the brave airmen.
I'm sure if we could stamp out the corrupt behaviour of a number of pollies, there would be enough money for this.
I think we both agree the ceremony was worthy.
Who did the hard work and paid the money to get it to that stage?
There was good evidence once the aircraft wreck was found of who was there. It shouldn't be up to volunteers to retrieve the brave airmen.
I'm sure if we could stamp out the corrupt behaviour of a number of pollies, there would be enough money for this.
I think we both agree the ceremony was worthy.
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R.A.F. Dakota KN 630
The team of volunteers who recovered the remains of the crew of KL 654 were also instrumental in the recovery of the crew of R.A.F. Dakota KN 630 which crashed in the Malaysian jungle on August 25th 1950 with the loss of 12 passengers and crew. One of these was a local soldier, Air Despatcher Cpl. Phillip Bryant from Lee-on-the-Solent who has now been remembered on the local War Memorial.
The remains of these brave men were finally laid to rest at the Commonwealth Graves at Cheras Cemetery on 15th March 2012. (See link below)
RAF Dakota KN630
Cpl. Bryant remembered in this article in the The Evening News, 18th September 2011
The remains of these brave men were finally laid to rest at the Commonwealth Graves at Cheras Cemetery on 15th March 2012. (See link below)
RAF Dakota KN630
Cpl. Bryant remembered in this article in the The Evening News, 18th September 2011
Last edited by bob shayler; 20th Oct 2012 at 08:22.
Glojo
I suggest you take the bait and watch Taking Chance. It in no way glamorizes war, nor does it lend itself to one side or the other in the debate of should we be there. It's the recollections of the Marine officer who escorts the remains of a young Marine home to rest.
I don't know you so I cant say you wouldn't be disappointed but I've yet to meet anyone who didn't appreciate the movie. Yet to meet someone who didn't come away emotional after it either.
I suggest you take the bait and watch Taking Chance. It in no way glamorizes war, nor does it lend itself to one side or the other in the debate of should we be there. It's the recollections of the Marine officer who escorts the remains of a young Marine home to rest.
I don't know you so I cant say you wouldn't be disappointed but I've yet to meet anyone who didn't appreciate the movie. Yet to meet someone who didn't come away emotional after it either.
