Wearing uniform in public

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by BEagle

as a harmless jape - and of course he never left his F1250 lying around again!

Yeah right, mine was on my dressing table, in my house.

I don't know how long the horn-rimmed glasses and beard where on it.

Miss PN as was, now sqn ldr, had better watch out.

[unclenelli]

Whilst the wearing of uniform in public is sometimes a relief (I never felt so comfortable as stopping at a US Waffle House at 9pm after work, wearing CS95 a few years back - thanks to the warm welcome given to us by the people of Gulfport, MS (before Katrina arrived)). But we also had to explain to our US hosts, that out-of-hours/work we usually called lower level bosses by their first names to avoid highlighting their involvement in the Military.

However, I can't help thinking that certain sections of our community aren't quite ready for us roaming freely in full uniform.
I'm not condoning the hatlessness, but in certain towns, would you really feel comfortable wearing a hat and walking past a crowd of yobs in hoodies, and expect to get out the otherside WITH your hat???

That said, my other half was in hospital recently and I walked from the carpark into the Hospital in 2As with beret on a daily basis without any problem - Hoodies don't tend to gather around hospitals!!!

[Pontius Navigator]

unclenellie, actually I see a fair number of these young people also in uniform and wearing berets. Th elocal ATC, not a score miles from you are well subscribed as indeed are the Army cadets too.

[Mike Read]

Thinking back to "Tesco" and similar situations, at one time officers in uniform would never have gone shopping. Times have changed though. What does "Customs of the Service" suggest, or does it no longer apply. And of course forty years ago (it is that number of years next week since I retired) if one moved around the station in flying kit one wore a hat. One didn't leave the station dressed like that. Any more than you would expect to see an engineer in greasy overalls off the base.

[Pontius Navigator]

Mike, you were of course quite right.

Aircrew had lockers in a large flying clothing locker room. Flying suits were serviced regularly and towels were provided for a post-flight shower before one went to the feeder for a post-flight meal and 'debrief' properly dressed in uniform.

Of course officers could not go shopping in uniform or otherwise. Shops shut at 5 and were usually closed from 1 to 2.15 when of course the officers were in the Mess having lunch. Tradesmen came to the Mess instead - Alkits, Moss Bros, City, Gieves - and you could order a suit or new uniform without meeting mere shop assistants.

Saturdays you were either working in the morning or free in civilian clothes if one insisted on going into town. Of course you may not have been able to get in to town as not everyone had their own car. Sunday shopping was unheard of and DIY was only for proper craftsmen.

[Tankertrashnav]

I suspect that PN and Mike Read, like myself, also had civvy hats to wear when off duty. These were required to be worn so that you could raise them when greeting ladies when out in town, and of course to acknowledge the salutes of airmen who happened to recognise you (they were in uniform, with hats, of course!). Also essential when "calling" on Mrs station commander soon after your posting in to a new station. I suspect all this is about as familiar to younger PPruners as life in the army of the Raj, but I quite liked it. Nowadays regrettably my hat serves only to keep the Cornish sun (or more often rain) off my rapidly expanding bald patch

[sitigeltfel]

Back in the seventies, at the height of the PIRA activity, I remember an order went out asking airmen not to salute any officers in civvy dress they met in a public place. They were only to give a nod of acknowledgement. I believe it started in NI, but spread to some bases on the mainland. It was funny at times as you would see an airman you recognised approaching and his right arm would give an instinctive twitch before settling back down by his side.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, I even have my flat cap still. I use it for gardening. Farmer friend asked if it was a dead tortoise. Thought it disgusting. I think that and one pair of socks is all that I have remaining from those days.

I have about as much hair now as I did then too.








Just in different places

[BEagle]

The rule about Cranwell Flt Cdts having to wear civilian hats in public was still around in 1968-9. You were required to wear the wretched things if out in civilian clothes in Cranwell village, Lincoln, Grantham or Sleaford. Not to raise to young ladies we knew as we never got much of a chance to meet any - it was in case we recognised one of our officers.

So we used to go to Newark...

When most of us became 'Aerocrat ' APOs after a year at Cranwell and set off for 3-4 years of fun, drunken debauchery and UAS flying, many a civvy hat was given a Viking funeral on the JMPG on the night we came hossifers!

I guess the rule died out when the first Graduate entrants arrived on the scene at RAFC? 'Calling' had gone out only a few years before I joined.

Another old 'personal behaviour' rule we were taught was that a male officer may not form a close relationship with a female officer on the same station! Some old Queen Bees still enforced this as late as 1977! A Wg Cdr and a WRAF Flt Lt who lived-in and were 'going out together' on a station at which I was serving had to leave the station in different cars at different times to avoid the old biddy's attention and displeasure!

Tell that to 't yoof of today......

[sitigeltfel]

Are Gurkhas still required to wear Mufti when out and about, avec chapeau?

[Pontius Navigator]

sitigeltfel, it would appear so. You only had to see the Gurkhas with Joanna Lumley to realise that they were impeccably attired, hatted, and regimental ties.

Few years ago I dined with an Air Cdre, ex-OC 12, and another ex-12 officer. Neither recognised my tie.

How many current sqn aircrew wear, or even own, a sqn tie? The last one I bought was in the 60s and I don't recall sqn ties being on offer since then.

That said, we have just been given a sqn tie, don't know which sqn, but it appears to have a Merlin at the bottom. Quite classy but as likely as not to be a company tie.

PS, I also have Bomber Command, 1 Gp and Strike Command ties. Has anyone thought of an Air Command one?

[Samuel]

As an RNZAF Flt Lt in ANZUK [74-76], I briefly lived in Hyde Park Gate at Seletar, which [Station] had been taken over by the Singapore Armed Forces. The SAF had taken over the security on the gate from the RAF Police, and were very keen to show they could do the job. I always wore my SD hat [it fitted quite nicely in my standard issue Aussie Holden], so I was always smartly saluted on entry, with my Seletar Pass handy, but I discovered to my dismay one day that my wife had long since lost her pass, but was happily waving a Wellington City Council Library card every time she came in. She smiled with it and was never stopped!

I wouldn't have dreamed of going anywhere without my hat by the way!

[SlopJockey]

Mike Read:

I was ashamed to see a group captain in uniform without hat wandering around the local Tesco.

Not quite sure what the point of your objection is Mike. Said Gp Capt was inside a building so hat should not be worn. I take it all other aspects of his dress were present and correct. Did he have comedy socks on perchance?

What I find most perturbing is that any officer, never mind a Gp Capt, would stoop to shop in T****s. What next going to Poun***** or Ar***?

I would never have presumed that standards could decline so far.

SJ

[Mike Read]

SJ, my point was, oh what the hell I've forgotten! Basically I don't like seeing RAF officers, of whatever rank, wandering about in public looking as scruffy as I, particularly when there are RN and Army chaps who seem to appear to look smarter. But I am an old fart.

In 1956 when we were all very poor the Tangmere wing were nominated as "Quickfire" to fly at short notice to warm places. We were given a tropical uniform allowance which most used to reduce their overdraft. Then Nasser did the dirty and we were told to go to Cyprus. A mad rush to Milletts in Pompey ensued so we arrived with WW2 surplus KD. Expecting to be there for about ten days it it never seemed worth while to get new kit made but ten days extended gradually to five months. We were the scruffiest officers in the Middle East by far, and proud of it too. (but we wore hats)

[Pontius Navigator]

As far as pongos and T****s. there is a mega one at Sandhurst. Now I was there one evening and there were several, I presume, cadets, all in pinstriped suits in the checkout queue. There were all buying identical check shirts and high-energy comfort food.

Should we all return to business suits when shopping?

I have had people usher me forward in the queue when wearing uniform and buying only one or two items.

[BEagle]

Perhaps it was just the smell of wee that persuaded them to let you past?

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by BEagle

Perhaps it was just the smell of wee that persuaded them to let you past?

I may be past it but they let me passed.

[unclenelli]

Pontius
I'm not referring to the local ATC cadets (I instruct with a local Sqn), but the school chums of said ATC cadets who decide that the Air Training Corps (or ACF, CCF, Sea Cadets, Scouts, Guides, Junior Red Cross etc) is not for them, but would rather hang around shopping centres wearing baseball caps under hooded sweatshirts, with a cigarette in hand, and paring knife tucked in waist band of oversized jeans which are hung too low for functionality.

Would you be comfortable walking past a gang of hoodies on a Saturday in a large shopping centre in uniform???

[muppetofthenorth]

Would you be comfortable walking past a gang of hoodies on a Saturday in a large shopping centre in uniform???

Yes, because the vast majority of them are cowards and wouldn't dare do something when people can see them.



Walking past them on a deserted street late at night, however, is another matter.

[Pontius Navigator]

I agree with MuppetoftheNorth.

The problem at night, when fuelled with drugs etc is they see a 'soldier' as an easy way to prove their manhood.

Sometimes they get it wrong

Friend of mine, ex-SAS (yes, really) faced up to one group. When this 68-yr old wasn't frightened, they legged it. Another little chap about 78 and all of 5ft 4 and 8 stone, floored a thug, 6ft and 16st plus.

What thug didn't know was that after war service in the RN Brookie was 'volunteered' to join the Army as surplus to RN requirements. He completed his re-training just in time for Arnhem.

Years later, Brookie was at Guernsey airport putting his baggage into a taxi. Voice bellowed out "Brookie, come here." Where upon the Governor, a Rear-Admiral no less, had the taxi driver put Brookie's luggage into the State car and then drove him to his hotel. The Governor then carried his luggage into the hotel. Style!