Pay Rise on 1st April 09?
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IIRC the flying pay thing is not too much of a bother in the RAF/RN as long as you don't start volunteering for ground tours. It's more of a vehicle to shaft the AAC under the pretence of stopping Rupert who does his pilots tour then goes back to a non flying career. Or something....
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"I noticed tucked in the back of the report that flying pay will be quite significantly reduced if not in a flying related post. What exactly does that mean? One has no power over where one is posted so surely this is not quite right.
There does not seem to be too much of an incentive to stay in on the career stream if this is the case - especially if one should be promoted beyond Lt Cdr/Major/Sqn Ldr."
Dogstar
I couldn't find any change ref non flying relate job, as it stands, the first three years on 100% and decreases thereafter. The only gottcha is it doesn't count as time served in flying job.
If I've missed it, could you give the para number, etc
There does not seem to be too much of an incentive to stay in on the career stream if this is the case - especially if one should be promoted beyond Lt Cdr/Major/Sqn Ldr."
Dogstar
I couldn't find any change ref non flying relate job, as it stands, the first three years on 100% and decreases thereafter. The only gottcha is it doesn't count as time served in flying job.
If I've missed it, could you give the para number, etc
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Para 2.16 I Also Noticed This Para.....
"The Secretary of State wrote to us on 13 January 2009, to set out the Government's view on the impact of the developing economic conditions. He pointed to forecasts of continuing recession in 2009 with rapidly falling inflation and a weakening labour market. The letter emphasised the Government's fiscal measures to support the economy and its priority to ensure sustainability of public finances. The Secretary of State commented upon the relative attractiveness of public sector employment and his confidence that the "excellent" Armed Forces' package will lead to improved recruitment and retention in the coming months with some improvement already seen in the latter part of 2008. Finally the Secretary of State commented on the importance of a fair pay award that ensured sufficient resources for other parts of the package and emphasised that awards above the paybill assumptions would require compensating cuts to other Defence priorities"
I also note in The Online 'BUN' today, regarding the Pay Increase-
Our Boys are coming home | The Sun |News|Campaigns|Our Boys
Now, I have read the 38th AFPRB and can find no mention of this recommended 2.6% that has been increased to 2.8%. I haven't heard any ministerial spin either so I assume its just a case of the 'Bun' again getting it wrong.
No surprise for the Gutter Press.
Very interesting reading....I might need some help with my maths here...
"During 2007-08, 637 properties were upgraded to “Standard 1 for Condition”, against a target of 600. Although almost 60 per cent of SFA stock in Great Britain is now classed as “Standard 1 for Condition”, because of differences in the criteria for “Standard for Condition” and “Grade for Charges”, just 18 per cent of current stock is “Grade 1 for Charges”. A further 600 upgrades are planned for 2008-09 at a cost of £38 million, with 800 planned in each of 2009-10 and 2010-11, at an annual cost of £48 million. We were concerned to learn in oral evidence with the Chief Executive of Defence Estates that the level of funding would never be enough to fully meet objectives and that the current improvement programme equated to each SFA unit getting a major upgrade every 70 years. "
If 600 properties are planned to be upgraded next year at a cost of 38 million, I make that 63k per property. Has anyone who has had it done recently reckon they've had their money's worth???
"During 2007-08, 637 properties were upgraded to “Standard 1 for Condition”, against a target of 600. Although almost 60 per cent of SFA stock in Great Britain is now classed as “Standard 1 for Condition”, because of differences in the criteria for “Standard for Condition” and “Grade for Charges”, just 18 per cent of current stock is “Grade 1 for Charges”. A further 600 upgrades are planned for 2008-09 at a cost of £38 million, with 800 planned in each of 2009-10 and 2010-11, at an annual cost of £48 million. We were concerned to learn in oral evidence with the Chief Executive of Defence Estates that the level of funding would never be enough to fully meet objectives and that the current improvement programme equated to each SFA unit getting a major upgrade every 70 years. "
If 600 properties are planned to be upgraded next year at a cost of 38 million, I make that 63k per property. Has anyone who has had it done recently reckon they've had their money's worth???
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For £63K, you could knock many of them down and re-build from scratch (it always astonished me how much the SLAM blocks cost given the land was free).
I have been through the process twice. In Norwich, the actual builders showed us the paperwork that proved the kitchens cost £600 each, including the demolition, re-plastering (from brick) and electrical work (the plugs didn't work because they wired them up wrong!) - mind you, those prices were at 1998-2001.
Give me £63K and I will make a healthy profit and bring the house up to standard, including getting rid of the half inch gap in the 'double-glazed' windows.
Unfortunately, DHE or whatever it's called now, is still populated by feckwits, right to the top. The contractors see them coming and MoD is taken to the cleaners AGAIN.
Back to the thread; we got sent a nice email today with a link to the AFPRB Report and a request for feedback to the Stn Cdr (to be filtered by some WO or other). I was going to respond, but the email clearly stated that responses would only be accepted in the correct format. The 'correct format' required one to start by stating 3 positive aspects of the Report, at which point I gave up. Can any one out there help?
I have been through the process twice. In Norwich, the actual builders showed us the paperwork that proved the kitchens cost £600 each, including the demolition, re-plastering (from brick) and electrical work (the plugs didn't work because they wired them up wrong!) - mind you, those prices were at 1998-2001.
Give me £63K and I will make a healthy profit and bring the house up to standard, including getting rid of the half inch gap in the 'double-glazed' windows.
Unfortunately, DHE or whatever it's called now, is still populated by feckwits, right to the top. The contractors see them coming and MoD is taken to the cleaners AGAIN.
Back to the thread; we got sent a nice email today with a link to the AFPRB Report and a request for feedback to the Stn Cdr (to be filtered by some WO or other). I was going to respond, but the email clearly stated that responses would only be accepted in the correct format. The 'correct format' required one to start by stating 3 positive aspects of the Report, at which point I gave up. Can any one out there help?
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Three positive points in this year's AFPRB
1. We got a pay rise.
2. We've got a job for the next 355 days, probably.
3. We got a pay rise.
Sorry, cynical I know, but there's plenty out there that are far worse of than most of us and I don't mean the 'feckless' minority.
SFO
2. We've got a job for the next 355 days, probably.
3. We got a pay rise.
Sorry, cynical I know, but there's plenty out there that are far worse of than most of us and I don't mean the 'feckless' minority.
SFO
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Balderdash
So, for the opportunity to be sent to strange and exotic places, at a moments notice on the whim of full time politicians who have never held a real job, you are accepting the paltry rise given.
Against a backdrop of a previous entitlement to rises inline with inflation at a stated date which has been used to reduce military pay against the comparitors, at the calculation date it was in the region of 5%.
How far behind the index established after the 1978 'adjustment' is the military package?
The job is not secure - in as far as your lives are at risk, on ops or in training.
The 2.8% top line is much reduced by the increased charges.
Now as a civvy taxpayer I still expect the military to be granted a proper set of pay and conditions. It has patently not been granted that at this time.
I wish you well under this (or any) set of lying cheating pornographers agents.
Against a backdrop of a previous entitlement to rises inline with inflation at a stated date which has been used to reduce military pay against the comparitors, at the calculation date it was in the region of 5%.
How far behind the index established after the 1978 'adjustment' is the military package?
The job is not secure - in as far as your lives are at risk, on ops or in training.
The 2.8% top line is much reduced by the increased charges.
Now as a civvy taxpayer I still expect the military to be granted a proper set of pay and conditions. It has patently not been granted that at this time.
I wish you well under this (or any) set of lying cheating pornographers agents.
Job security?
First of all, any comments I am about to make are not because I consider the 2.8% pay rise either too big or too small, they are simply a reflection of one particular comment that has been made.
As for the military having job security, it might well be argued that we do. However, given that the next government, of whichever party, is going to have to cut back on public expenditure in order to repay the billions that have been borrowed, and given that the military is not a sacred cow, what price a Defence review leading to further cuts in personnel, in the next year or two....
No doubt following on from comments about how "withdrawing from a successful intervention in Iraq has allowed force reductions", and "modern, more effective equipment means less actual personnel are needed", etc, etc...
Just a thought.....
As for the military having job security, it might well be argued that we do. However, given that the next government, of whichever party, is going to have to cut back on public expenditure in order to repay the billions that have been borrowed, and given that the military is not a sacred cow, what price a Defence review leading to further cuts in personnel, in the next year or two....
No doubt following on from comments about how "withdrawing from a successful intervention in Iraq has allowed force reductions", and "modern, more effective equipment means less actual personnel are needed", etc, etc...
Just a thought.....
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Biggus,
with you on that one. El Gordo has his excuse to hack away now we're scaling down to 1 medium sized op. Remember "A defence pound is a wasted pound"?
We should be happy that we have a relatively secure job, however we've long lagged behind inflation so 2.8% is below par for the course except....
UK Plc is bankrupt! Where's the money coming from?? From within existing budgets from what I could read, so something will give....
with you on that one. El Gordo has his excuse to hack away now we're scaling down to 1 medium sized op. Remember "A defence pound is a wasted pound"?
We should be happy that we have a relatively secure job, however we've long lagged behind inflation so 2.8% is below par for the course except....
UK Plc is bankrupt! Where's the money coming from?? From within existing budgets from what I could read, so something will give....
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Back to the thread; we got sent a nice email today with a link to the AFPRB Report and a request for feedback to the Stn Cdr (to be filtered by some WO or other).
Filter indeed!
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Why should I feel grateful or humble for my modest/mediocre pay rise?
No one has still answered my original question regarding pay rises and pensions....
And yet many posters are subscribing to the 'thank God that we received a pay rise and that we should be happy with our job security' philosophy.
Is this really true? Should I be grateful and humble in the current economic climate.
Please can someone show me the pay bonuses and higher than Public Sector salary/bonuses in my pay slips that those in the city have been receiving since approximately 1993?
I have loyally worked the same routine for the same modest 'inflation linked' pay for many years and have watched the Private Sector bask in eye wartering staggering bonuses (one example of a middle management (Young Officer/WO/SNCO level) bonus of £750,000. One years bonus!
So just because the Private Sector has not invested these bonuses and extra wealth and quite happily had the 'good times' of champagne, exotic holidays, fast cars and second/third homes, then why should I be sat here in my pretty modest married quarter feelING sorry for them, or being prompted to be thankful and gracious for my lot?
Whether it is Bond or Met Police or the Algerian SAR contract or the SAR H contract just around the corner or the MFTS contract or the raft of other civilian opportunities out there - my civilian sector is not equatable to that of the Finance Industry or the Car Industry, so why should I compare my position to theirs?
When someone with greater brain space than me answers this question then I will be 'humbled' and 'thankful'.
And yet many posters are subscribing to the 'thank God that we received a pay rise and that we should be happy with our job security' philosophy.
Is this really true? Should I be grateful and humble in the current economic climate.
Please can someone show me the pay bonuses and higher than Public Sector salary/bonuses in my pay slips that those in the city have been receiving since approximately 1993?
I have loyally worked the same routine for the same modest 'inflation linked' pay for many years and have watched the Private Sector bask in eye wartering staggering bonuses (one example of a middle management (Young Officer/WO/SNCO level) bonus of £750,000. One years bonus!
So just because the Private Sector has not invested these bonuses and extra wealth and quite happily had the 'good times' of champagne, exotic holidays, fast cars and second/third homes, then why should I be sat here in my pretty modest married quarter feelING sorry for them, or being prompted to be thankful and gracious for my lot?
Whether it is Bond or Met Police or the Algerian SAR contract or the SAR H contract just around the corner or the MFTS contract or the raft of other civilian opportunities out there - my civilian sector is not equatable to that of the Finance Industry or the Car Industry, so why should I compare my position to theirs?
When someone with greater brain space than me answers this question then I will be 'humbled' and 'thankful'.
Last edited by MaroonMan4; 4th Apr 2009 at 06:57.
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Maybe I am being a tad naive here Maroonman, are you saying that nobody at PAS, SAR, or even the Airlines got a 750k bonus or even a tuppence halfpenny bonus so how can your payrise be comparable?
We are Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen (umm and Airwomen?) and not big shot city slickers, I agree. But there are also a huge number of workers from Honda, Bombadier etc etc that I don't recall hearing of huge bonuses that are now facing a queue with a UB40?
For what its worth I like you don't think I should feel humble but I can see the other sides point of view.
We are Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen (umm and Airwomen?) and not big shot city slickers, I agree. But there are also a huge number of workers from Honda, Bombadier etc etc that I don't recall hearing of huge bonuses that are now facing a queue with a UB40?
For what its worth I like you don't think I should feel humble but I can see the other sides point of view.
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I work and have worked in the public sector, joins RAF at 16 1/2 and still in at 51, all of my working life and as such I only ever expect a pay rise each year that aligns itself with inflation, give or take an inch.
As such I really could not give a flying **** what the fat cats in the city have or currently earn. In the same way I have absolutely no envy of what pilots and senior officers earn, what any anyone else makes is simply not on my radar.
I am more than happy with my 2.8% which is less than my sons 4% as a British Gas Technician but plenty for me. I suspect if people were more concerned with what was in their own wage packet each month as opposed to bitching about how others get more life would be far simpler.
As such I really could not give a flying **** what the fat cats in the city have or currently earn. In the same way I have absolutely no envy of what pilots and senior officers earn, what any anyone else makes is simply not on my radar.
I am more than happy with my 2.8% which is less than my sons 4% as a British Gas Technician but plenty for me. I suspect if people were more concerned with what was in their own wage packet each month as opposed to bitching about how others get more life would be far simpler.
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Seldom,
I think that you may have misconstrued my post - although not quite 51 (!) and still serving I have been around a bit. I totally agree with you though expectations being managed each year for me with a round about inflation pay rise per month.
But, on this thread and in my local and the 'twitters' look at my pay rise and attempt to make me feel guilty.
Closely allied to this I believe that al of this recession is going to be used as an excuse - an excuse to water down or ignore the 2009 Flying Pay Review (how convienient it is this particular year!) - how long have we been waiting for flying pay to be pensionable which balances a playing field between pure 'spec aircrew' and career officers. An excuse to 'review' our final salary pensions and excuse to review CEA.
I am happy in my world, believe in Queen and Country and more importantly enjoy the people I work with.
But Seldom, as quick as this economy went belly up in September I believe that just as quickly our current Prime Minister and his esteemed colleagues will be syphoning money away from defence, and that my friend does potentially include your pension that (I would suggest) has been one of the reasons why you have been so content in your many years of service not to be so concerned about your pay rises etc.
I return to my original point, that if we in the Armed Forces start to feel as though we should be lucky to have a job, or fortunate to get a pay rise, then the same philosophy will be seen as a green light by those that are now desperate (and I mean desperate) to save money and will happily take the 'message' that the H M Forces can take a bit of scrimping and saving as they are so thankful that they even have a job.
I think that you may have misconstrued my post - although not quite 51 (!) and still serving I have been around a bit. I totally agree with you though expectations being managed each year for me with a round about inflation pay rise per month.
But, on this thread and in my local and the 'twitters' look at my pay rise and attempt to make me feel guilty.
Closely allied to this I believe that al of this recession is going to be used as an excuse - an excuse to water down or ignore the 2009 Flying Pay Review (how convienient it is this particular year!) - how long have we been waiting for flying pay to be pensionable which balances a playing field between pure 'spec aircrew' and career officers. An excuse to 'review' our final salary pensions and excuse to review CEA.
I am happy in my world, believe in Queen and Country and more importantly enjoy the people I work with.
But Seldom, as quick as this economy went belly up in September I believe that just as quickly our current Prime Minister and his esteemed colleagues will be syphoning money away from defence, and that my friend does potentially include your pension that (I would suggest) has been one of the reasons why you have been so content in your many years of service not to be so concerned about your pay rises etc.
I return to my original point, that if we in the Armed Forces start to feel as though we should be lucky to have a job, or fortunate to get a pay rise, then the same philosophy will be seen as a green light by those that are now desperate (and I mean desperate) to save money and will happily take the 'message' that the H M Forces can take a bit of scrimping and saving as they are so thankful that they even have a job.
Farfrompuken, the government will provide the cash by 'quantative easing', that is printing money just like Germany after the 1st World War, also known as devaluation of the currency. But, as Harold Wilson once said, "It will not affect the pound in your pocket!"
I seem to remember some fact bandied around that our salaries are abated by X% in order to provide for our pensions. Now, I'm fully aware that the government hasn't actually been sensibly pooling this X% for years to provide for us, but if they cut our pension in any way, can we expect some part of this X% to be provided as an immediate pay rise in lieu?