Telegraph Campaign For Bomber Command Memorial
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Telegraph Campaign For Bomber Command Memorial
Why we must finally honour the men of RAF Bomber Command - Telegraph
About Bloody time. Bomber Harris fought tirelessly to his last day for a memorial to the lads that died as part of the bomber campaign; one that for political correctness reasons was refused time and time again. Having read Bomber Boys, the sacrifices that these lads made, together with their contribution to the war effort, however unpalatable to some, needs recognizing. How many of us would object to the Luftwaffe establishing a memorial to their bomber crews? I wouldnt. This isnt about the job they had to do, this is about the enormous sacrifice they made. They gave their futures... The least we can do is establish a memorial to remember that sacrifice.
In other words, to defeat Nazi Germany, defending our island would not be enough: Britain had to attack. And between the Dunkirk evacuation of 1940 and the D-Day landings of June 1944, there was no way of directly attacking Germany itself – other than by bombing.
Night bombing in those early days was in its infancy. Navigation aids were rudimentary – aircrews still used sextants. Yet they were expected to pinpoint military and industrial targets, often a single factory, deep inside Germany at night.
Frequent bad weather and poor visibility made this a near impossible challenge. Eventually the War Cabinet ordered that, unless weather conditions allowed otherwise, attacks had to be directed mainly on the area-bombing of industrial cities – to increase the likelihood of damaging something – even if it was only the morale of German industrial workers.
Although many of the aircrews would have preferred otherwise, there was little choice and of course, the Germans had already pioneered the practice of area-bombing cities during the Blitz, killing 43,000 British civilians.
By 1943/44 Bomber Command was sending hundreds of bombers a night over Europe – forcing the Germans on to the defensive. This had a vital strategic effect: one million men, tens of thousands of weapons and aircraft and a mass of resources had to be diverted from the Germans' struggle with the Russians on the Eastern Front to defend the homeland against the bomber attacks from the West.
Albert Speer, Hitler's armaments minister, later described the bomber offensive from the Nazis' perspective as "the greatest lost battle of the war".
But the cost was painfully heavy. All RAF aircrews were volunteers, with an average age of 22. Of 125,000 bomber aircrew involved, more than 55,000 were killed, over 8,000 were wounded and nearly 10,000 were prisoners of war. This was on a scale proportionate to British casualties in the trenches during the worst period of World War One.
Bomber Command's contribution to victory (and loss of aircrew lives) was widely recognised at the time. But no specific campaign medal was awarded at the end of the war. Churchill, sensing potential political squeamishness when the devastation of Germany by bombing would become clear, distanced himself from the bombing campaign he had personally initiated and encouraged.
In July 1945 he was also out of office and the new Labour Government under Clement Attlee steadfastly refused requests for a medal. This shows how quickly the circumstances under which the War Cabinet had ordered the policy, in the darkest days of the conflict, were forgotten!
Bomber Command was originally set up to bomb purely military targets and indeed did so in attacking every aspect of Germany's war machine: armaments factories, ports, U-boat pens, shipping, oil refineries, transport links, troop concentrations, air bases, rail links, communications, military headquarters and even dams. But much of the effort, in darkness and impossible conditions, had to be in the form of area bombing. It was crude but effective: Germany's war making capacity was held back and eventually crippled. When the Allied armies finally did invade Europe in 1944 they fought their way to liberate Europe with massive direct bomber support.
It is the recognition of what was achieved in the wide range of our sustained operations over the whole five years of the war that we now seek. A Memorial in Central London to the many young men who died and to the vital contribution made by Bomber Command to victory would provide that recognition.
* Sir Michael Beetham DFC was a Lancaster bomber pilot in the Second World War, flying his first raid over Berlin at the age of 20. He went on to become Chief of the Air Staff, the professional head of the Royal Air Force.
Night bombing in those early days was in its infancy. Navigation aids were rudimentary – aircrews still used sextants. Yet they were expected to pinpoint military and industrial targets, often a single factory, deep inside Germany at night.
Frequent bad weather and poor visibility made this a near impossible challenge. Eventually the War Cabinet ordered that, unless weather conditions allowed otherwise, attacks had to be directed mainly on the area-bombing of industrial cities – to increase the likelihood of damaging something – even if it was only the morale of German industrial workers.
Although many of the aircrews would have preferred otherwise, there was little choice and of course, the Germans had already pioneered the practice of area-bombing cities during the Blitz, killing 43,000 British civilians.
By 1943/44 Bomber Command was sending hundreds of bombers a night over Europe – forcing the Germans on to the defensive. This had a vital strategic effect: one million men, tens of thousands of weapons and aircraft and a mass of resources had to be diverted from the Germans' struggle with the Russians on the Eastern Front to defend the homeland against the bomber attacks from the West.
Albert Speer, Hitler's armaments minister, later described the bomber offensive from the Nazis' perspective as "the greatest lost battle of the war".
But the cost was painfully heavy. All RAF aircrews were volunteers, with an average age of 22. Of 125,000 bomber aircrew involved, more than 55,000 were killed, over 8,000 were wounded and nearly 10,000 were prisoners of war. This was on a scale proportionate to British casualties in the trenches during the worst period of World War One.
Bomber Command's contribution to victory (and loss of aircrew lives) was widely recognised at the time. But no specific campaign medal was awarded at the end of the war. Churchill, sensing potential political squeamishness when the devastation of Germany by bombing would become clear, distanced himself from the bombing campaign he had personally initiated and encouraged.
In July 1945 he was also out of office and the new Labour Government under Clement Attlee steadfastly refused requests for a medal. This shows how quickly the circumstances under which the War Cabinet had ordered the policy, in the darkest days of the conflict, were forgotten!
Bomber Command was originally set up to bomb purely military targets and indeed did so in attacking every aspect of Germany's war machine: armaments factories, ports, U-boat pens, shipping, oil refineries, transport links, troop concentrations, air bases, rail links, communications, military headquarters and even dams. But much of the effort, in darkness and impossible conditions, had to be in the form of area bombing. It was crude but effective: Germany's war making capacity was held back and eventually crippled. When the Allied armies finally did invade Europe in 1944 they fought their way to liberate Europe with massive direct bomber support.
It is the recognition of what was achieved in the wide range of our sustained operations over the whole five years of the war that we now seek. A Memorial in Central London to the many young men who died and to the vital contribution made by Bomber Command to victory would provide that recognition.
* Sir Michael Beetham DFC was a Lancaster bomber pilot in the Second World War, flying his first raid over Berlin at the age of 20. He went on to become Chief of the Air Staff, the professional head of the Royal Air Force.
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Heard this story on the Today programme. Was a little confused over this memorial as it seems that this is a *new* memorial and will be the first one to Bomber Command. Today interveiwed a spokesman about the memorial and he said that they are trying to negotiate a suitable location, funding and an architect....yet in Sat (18 Oct) Mail there was an article about how the first memorial to Bomber Command would up in Regent's Park by next year.
So is this the same memorial that the Telegraph and Today were on about or a different one? Will Bomber Command now have 2 memorials?
Sixty years late, a wrong is righted as bomber heroes will be given a fitting memorial
Night after night they climbed into their cramped and freezing aircraft to strike at Germany's cities and factories.
And each time they flew, the odds of them surviving the night-fighters and flak grew longer and longer.
Yet the sacrifice and seemingly inexhaustible bravery of the young men of Bomber Command has gone almost unrecognised for 60 years
Even Churchill snubbed them, though they faced some of the worst losses of any branch of the British military.
However, it emerged that the heroes of Bomber Command are at last to be recognised with their own memorial.
Campaigners have won the struggle to raise funds for a £2million memorial in Regent's Park to honour the 55,000 who lost their lives during the war.
It will go some way to ending a longstanding injustice which the project's supporters blame on 'political correctness.' After the war there was widespread unease over what the airmen were asked to do - the tactic of carpet-bombing German cities - and horror at the effects of this on civilians.
Former Bee Gees singer Robin Gibb, a passionate supporter of the campaign, told the Mail enough money had now been raised for building work to go ahead.
'The memorial will be up in Regent's Park next year,' he said. 'We have agreed a site, but we still need to raise a bit more money.
'I feel very emotional about this. These guys are heroes. Everyone in Britain and the rest of Europe owes them a debt. It has been 63 years and yet successive governments have failed to honour them.
'This is not about glorifying war, it is about honouring sacrifice.'
The singer, who is president of the Heritage Foundation which honours noteworthy British achievers, said the memorial would take the form of seven bronze statues of crew members in uniform, facing outwards in a circle.
The bomber offensive played a major role in defeating Hitler's Germany and was initially one of the few ways in which Britain could strike back at the Nazis.
However, by the end of the war the tactics of 'area bombing' cities - estimated to have caused up to 600,000 civilian casualties - had become increasingly controversial, particularly after some were reduced to rubble.
The strategy was largely dictated by the technology of the day, because long-range high-level bombers lacked the accuracy to hit individual factories.
Churchill backed the strategy but snubbed Bomber Command in his 1945 victory broadcast, thanking all sections of the RAF except the bomber force. While the debate over the allied tactics has raged, survivors felt that their valour and sacrifice were unfairly forgotten.
Night after night they climbed into their cramped and freezing aircraft to strike at Germany's cities and factories.
And each time they flew, the odds of them surviving the night-fighters and flak grew longer and longer.
Yet the sacrifice and seemingly inexhaustible bravery of the young men of Bomber Command has gone almost unrecognised for 60 years
Even Churchill snubbed them, though they faced some of the worst losses of any branch of the British military.
However, it emerged that the heroes of Bomber Command are at last to be recognised with their own memorial.
Campaigners have won the struggle to raise funds for a £2million memorial in Regent's Park to honour the 55,000 who lost their lives during the war.
It will go some way to ending a longstanding injustice which the project's supporters blame on 'political correctness.' After the war there was widespread unease over what the airmen were asked to do - the tactic of carpet-bombing German cities - and horror at the effects of this on civilians.
Former Bee Gees singer Robin Gibb, a passionate supporter of the campaign, told the Mail enough money had now been raised for building work to go ahead.
'The memorial will be up in Regent's Park next year,' he said. 'We have agreed a site, but we still need to raise a bit more money.
'I feel very emotional about this. These guys are heroes. Everyone in Britain and the rest of Europe owes them a debt. It has been 63 years and yet successive governments have failed to honour them.
'This is not about glorifying war, it is about honouring sacrifice.'
The singer, who is president of the Heritage Foundation which honours noteworthy British achievers, said the memorial would take the form of seven bronze statues of crew members in uniform, facing outwards in a circle.
The bomber offensive played a major role in defeating Hitler's Germany and was initially one of the few ways in which Britain could strike back at the Nazis.
However, by the end of the war the tactics of 'area bombing' cities - estimated to have caused up to 600,000 civilian casualties - had become increasingly controversial, particularly after some were reduced to rubble.
The strategy was largely dictated by the technology of the day, because long-range high-level bombers lacked the accuracy to hit individual factories.
Churchill backed the strategy but snubbed Bomber Command in his 1945 victory broadcast, thanking all sections of the RAF except the bomber force. While the debate over the allied tactics has raged, survivors felt that their valour and sacrifice were unfairly forgotten.
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CirrusF:
I see by your post you are a revisionist historian of the David Irvine ilk. Perhaps you would rather we were all walking around going "Sieg Heil"?
Bo§§ocks. Even here in Germany it is recognised that the number killed was a maximum of 25.000. Still a terrible figure, but terrible things happen in war. How many British civilians were killed by German bombing raids on the UK? How many German civilians were killed by the Nazi's in concentration camps, etc. in Germany or territory occupied by Germany?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...n-thought.html
I see by your post you are a revisionist historian of the David Irvine ilk. Perhaps you would rather we were all walking around going "Sieg Heil"?
but the memorial should not omit the fact that there were 600,000 civilian victims.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...n-thought.html
For fcuks sake, CirrusF, it was war. Europe was under Nazi heel (an outfit that killed many more innocent civilians than Bomber Command ever did) and the few that were left had to stop this evil regime by whatever means was necessary. If bombing civilians to shatter thir morale and will to work for Nazi victory, then so be it. Remember, THEY started it, THEY turned a blind eye to the horrible acts committed and THEY deserved everything they got.
This was the last just war that was fought, and we and the allies faught it with all our might and we WON, securing freedom from Nazi tyranny and extermination of those who opposed it and those they thought undesirable.
You're splitting hairs, Cirrus, and have you forgotten Guernica? As Arthur said, They sowed the wind, they shall reap the whirlwind, and they did.
It was evil, awful and all such descriptions of war but just imagine what it would be like if we had lost.
While we're at it, how about a campaign medal for Bomber Command?
Doc C
This was the last just war that was fought, and we and the allies faught it with all our might and we WON, securing freedom from Nazi tyranny and extermination of those who opposed it and those they thought undesirable.
You're splitting hairs, Cirrus, and have you forgotten Guernica? As Arthur said, They sowed the wind, they shall reap the whirlwind, and they did.
It was evil, awful and all such descriptions of war but just imagine what it would be like if we had lost.
While we're at it, how about a campaign medal for Bomber Command?
Doc C
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S'land,
I don't know where you get your figure of "max 25000 Civilian German casualties from bombing" during WW2 came from. The UK never suffered 1000 Bomber raids in WW2 but 60,595 civilians were killed by bombing (out of a total of 146,777 casualties).
Even in WW1 a total of 1,117 Civilians were killed by air attack. (Statistics of the Military Effort of the British Empire During the Great War 1914-1920, Part XXIV "Airship and Aeroplane Raids over Great Britain During the Great War 1914-1920, PartXXIV: Airship and Aeroplane Raids over Great Britain and Bombardment of the Coast, with resulting Casualties." HMSO, 1922)
Dr Cruces
We did this one a couple of weeks ago (a campaign medal for Bomber Command).
Bomber Command were not the only ones who bombed Germany - during the 1000 Bomber raids Harris used crews from Coastal Command, Flying Training Command and Army Cooperation Command; those crews would not be eligible for such a medal. Squadrons based in Italy contributed to the Bombing attack on Germany - but they were not in Bomber Command and would not be eligible for such a medal. The brave men of the Photographic Reconnaissance Unit who flew lone unarmed aircraft to photograph targets, before and after raids, would not be eligible for such a medal.
Then you have the Beaufighter and Mosquito night fighter crews who flew with the Bomber Streams to help protect them from German nightfighters - they would not be eligible.
I don't know where you get your figure of "max 25000 Civilian German casualties from bombing" during WW2 came from. The UK never suffered 1000 Bomber raids in WW2 but 60,595 civilians were killed by bombing (out of a total of 146,777 casualties).
Even in WW1 a total of 1,117 Civilians were killed by air attack. (Statistics of the Military Effort of the British Empire During the Great War 1914-1920, Part XXIV "Airship and Aeroplane Raids over Great Britain During the Great War 1914-1920, PartXXIV: Airship and Aeroplane Raids over Great Britain and Bombardment of the Coast, with resulting Casualties." HMSO, 1922)
Dr Cruces
We did this one a couple of weeks ago (a campaign medal for Bomber Command).
Bomber Command were not the only ones who bombed Germany - during the 1000 Bomber raids Harris used crews from Coastal Command, Flying Training Command and Army Cooperation Command; those crews would not be eligible for such a medal. Squadrons based in Italy contributed to the Bombing attack on Germany - but they were not in Bomber Command and would not be eligible for such a medal. The brave men of the Photographic Reconnaissance Unit who flew lone unarmed aircraft to photograph targets, before and after raids, would not be eligible for such a medal.
Then you have the Beaufighter and Mosquito night fighter crews who flew with the Bomber Streams to help protect them from German nightfighters - they would not be eligible.
Last edited by cazatou; 28th Oct 2008 at 14:59.
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Bluddy Hell Cirrus.
This is the second thread you've used to expound your anti-military views.
If this was 1940 you would have been awarded a white feather mate.
Are you sure you are in the right forum?
This is the second thread you've used to expound your anti-military views.
If this was 1940 you would have been awarded a white feather mate.
Are you sure you are in the right forum?
Caz, I think that S'land is referring to the revision of Goebbels's figures for the casualties caused by the bombing of Dresden, so avidly seized on by our own liberal thinkers, which have now been downsized from half a million to some 25,000 by German Historians.
The proposed Regents Park Bomber Command Memorial is, AFAIK, the only one planned for London. The Heritage Foundation, heading up the project, and the Bomber Command Association, are working in partnership to achieve it. During an inevitably long gestation period they release from time to time another publicity initiative. This is the latest one, and lead by MRAF Sir Michael Beetham, BCA's President. A remarkable leader of some remarkable men! The videos attached to the Telegraph page are well worth viewing, and all praise to the Telegraph for their continuing coverage of such a worthy cause.
Off thread re Bomber Command Medals: as you say Caz covered by another thread, but I would point out that there are two medals being confused here, neither of which were ever issued. One is a Bomber Command Medal, called for by Harris for award to ALL members of BC who served in WW2. An absolute non-starter as membership alone of a military formation has never, AFAIK, resulted in the award of a UK medal. The second medal would have been a Bombing Campaign Medal, awarded for a campaign defined by time and place as all UK campaign medals are. No problem then for all those who took part in that campaign, of whichever Command, receiving it. The reason why it was not struck is I suspect the same reason why a National Bomber Command Memorial has yet to be, what is now known as Political Correctness. Hopefully the time for the latter has arrived at last, the former seems far less likely to happen.
The proposed Regents Park Bomber Command Memorial is, AFAIK, the only one planned for London. The Heritage Foundation, heading up the project, and the Bomber Command Association, are working in partnership to achieve it. During an inevitably long gestation period they release from time to time another publicity initiative. This is the latest one, and lead by MRAF Sir Michael Beetham, BCA's President. A remarkable leader of some remarkable men! The videos attached to the Telegraph page are well worth viewing, and all praise to the Telegraph for their continuing coverage of such a worthy cause.
Off thread re Bomber Command Medals: as you say Caz covered by another thread, but I would point out that there are two medals being confused here, neither of which were ever issued. One is a Bomber Command Medal, called for by Harris for award to ALL members of BC who served in WW2. An absolute non-starter as membership alone of a military formation has never, AFAIK, resulted in the award of a UK medal. The second medal would have been a Bombing Campaign Medal, awarded for a campaign defined by time and place as all UK campaign medals are. No problem then for all those who took part in that campaign, of whichever Command, receiving it. The reason why it was not struck is I suspect the same reason why a National Bomber Command Memorial has yet to be, what is now known as Political Correctness. Hopefully the time for the latter has arrived at last, the former seems far less likely to happen.
but the memorial should not omit the fact that there were 600,000 civilian victims.
I am glad that The Daily Telegraph is supporting the plans.
I just hope we are talking about something like post number 123 in this
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I am not "anti-military". Quite the opposite. I fully support the idea of a memorial - but it should not hide under the carpet the reality of history.
As the original article cited
So they themselves realised the inhumanity of what they were doing.
Maybe you should re-read Major Tim Collins' Iraq speech, or Archnbishop of Canterbury's post Falklands sermon, if you do not understand the importance of respecting and remembering the victims of war.
I'm also being practical. A memorial just to the crews will inevitably be subject to vandalism. The reason there has been no memorial until now is because it is politically controversial. What was regarded then as necessary would be regarded as a war-crime now. If we put up a memorial that can be interpreted by some as glorifying a war crime, it will be repeatedly vandalised.
So I suggest that it should also remember the victims, so that it becomes a memorial to a passage of history that demanded great heroism from our side and enormous suffering to the other side.
And I am not being "revisionist" about the number of victims - I got that figure from November4's posting:
As the original article cited
Although many of the aircrews would have preferred otherwise, there was little choice".
Maybe you should re-read Major Tim Collins' Iraq speech, or Archnbishop of Canterbury's post Falklands sermon, if you do not understand the importance of respecting and remembering the victims of war.
I'm also being practical. A memorial just to the crews will inevitably be subject to vandalism. The reason there has been no memorial until now is because it is politically controversial. What was regarded then as necessary would be regarded as a war-crime now. If we put up a memorial that can be interpreted by some as glorifying a war crime, it will be repeatedly vandalised.
So I suggest that it should also remember the victims, so that it becomes a memorial to a passage of history that demanded great heroism from our side and enormous suffering to the other side.
And I am not being "revisionist" about the number of victims - I got that figure from November4's posting:
However, by the end of the war the tactics of 'area bombing' cities - estimated to have caused up to 600,000 civilian casualties - had become increasingly controversial, particularly after some were reduced to rubble.
Roland Pulfrew:
Yes, as far as the figures go, as I understand that the intention is to have a heavy bomber crew, ie seven aircrew, standing in a circle.
No, as far as the +55,000 names are concerned, as the size of the site will not allow for it. That has to be the function of the "country memorial" discussed on the Memorial Thread, where space will allow for it.
It is the hope and intention of Bomber Command Heritage to preserve RAF Bicester, the site of 13OTU Bomber Command, still in its war time layout, as a Bomber Command Heritage Centre and home of the National Bomber Command Memorial bearing those names.
I just hope we are talking about something like post number 123 in this
No, as far as the +55,000 names are concerned, as the size of the site will not allow for it. That has to be the function of the "country memorial" discussed on the Memorial Thread, where space will allow for it.
It is the hope and intention of Bomber Command Heritage to preserve RAF Bicester, the site of 13OTU Bomber Command, still in its war time layout, as a Bomber Command Heritage Centre and home of the National Bomber Command Memorial bearing those names.
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Cirrus: I'm also being practical. A memorial just to the crews will inevitably be subject to vandalism.
There is nothing wrong with remembering OUR dead in such a way. Frankly, and this might sound bad, I have no emotional connection with those who died at Dresden. I do have a connection with our lads though, those who clambered into ally tubes each night and left, never to return. However much I wish to god those people hadn't have died, I do not want my act of commemoration to be bundled up like some marketing nerd's wet dream because apparantly, thats how I am supposed to think.
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It is the hope and intention of Bomber Command Heritage to preserve RAF Bicester, the site of 13OTU Bomber Command, still in its war time layout, as a Bomber Command Heritage Centre and home of the National Bomber Command Memorial bearing those names.
Does the Bomber Command Association agree with this?
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Does Bisto need permission?
Although not used for active service Bicester retains:“… better than any other military airbase in Britain, the layout and fabric relating to pre-1930s military aviation…..
.... it comprises the best-preserved bomber airfield dating
from the period up to 1945…… It also comprises the best preserved and most
strongly representative of the bomber stations built as part of Sir Hugh
Trenchard’s 1920s Home Defence Expansion Scheme”. (English Heritage).
Says who? ......... "most strongly representative". With a grass strip.
Says who? ......... "most strongly representative". With a grass strip.
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English Heritage - yes, I understand that. I was wondering which particular aviation historical expert, and whether their research was as cavalier as their prose..
......... retains better than any other military airbase in Britain, the layout and fabric relating to pre-1930s military aviation…..
.... it comprises the best-preserved bomber airfield dating from the period up to 1945……
So which one is it?
......... retains better than any other military airbase in Britain, the layout and fabric relating to pre-1930s military aviation…..
.... it comprises the best-preserved bomber airfield dating from the period up to 1945……
So which one is it?