RN Fixed Wing future?
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RN Fixed Wing future?
Can anyone ( excluding children, rambling idiots, toss-pots who get a hard about the Typhoon gun or Herc Navigators) please try and shed some sensible light on the future of RN Fixed-Wing FJ flying? ...... I'm on the verge of a big decision and I may be just about to see myself off....
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As far as I know with MFTS it is safe - well as safe as anything now. There will always be a need for the fixed wing and ships is your baby. It may be less dark/light centric and a blob of colour but the seats will still need to be filled.
PS spoke to a civ jet mate the other day and it ain't pretty out there!!!!!!
PS spoke to a civ jet mate the other day and it ain't pretty out there!!!!!!
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The RN & RAF will continue to Operate as JFH, until the JCA F-35 comes into service! But, I think it looks like we may get the Carriers before the Aircraft, don't quote me on that bit!
The RN looked into a Marinised Typhoon, French Rafale, F-18, but they found that the JCA F-35 wud sit the job best! But... We will see won't we!
The RN looked into a Marinised Typhoon, French Rafale, F-18, but they found that the JCA F-35 wud sit the job best! But... We will see won't we!
Tourist
I think you may need to delete the words
from your statement for it to hold true 
Don't disagree that aviation from carriers is on the up - just not sure they are going to be of a dark blue cloth. Personal view only. No insight whatsoever into what may be on the table for the current planning round ...
I think you may need to delete the words
in the RN
Don't disagree that aviation from carriers is on the up - just not sure they are going to be of a dark blue cloth. Personal view only. No insight whatsoever into what may be on the table for the current planning round ...
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From my quite close experience of 1F and Happy 4 on the boat over the last few years I would have no qualms about the RAF operating JCA off CVF - the guys on these 2 squadrons embrace the challenge, enjoy the experience and generally leave wanting to come back - the bunfights only occur higher up the food chain.
Does the new CAS hate the RN as much as Torpy? If so the bunfights will continue ..........................
Does the new CAS hate the RN as much as Torpy? If so the bunfights will continue ..........................
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Not supporting the arguement one way to the other but it might make some sense to have the JCA in just one colour. To have, say, two different colours on one ship will inevitably lead to confusion. As long as the light blue is fed from the wider air force they will always speak a different language.
OTOH a larger pool of pilots increases the number available whereas the RN pool will inevitably be smaller and also single role, on the assumption that there is no cross-over RW-FJ.
OTOH a larger pool of pilots increases the number available whereas the RN pool will inevitably be smaller and also single role, on the assumption that there is no cross-over RW-FJ.
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To have, say, two different colours on one ship will inevitably lead to confusion.
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When I joined the Navy, we had two front line Harrier Sqns.
We now have, erm, two front line Harrier Sqns.
We had numerous Front line Rotary Sqns.
We now have ever so slightly more, flying vastly superior aircraft across all sqns.
We had 3 "through deck cruisers"
We now have 2 truly shagged "through deck cruisers" one effective but horrible cheapy built helicopter carrier, a couple of other big decks plus, and it is a big plus, 2 650000 ton carriers under contract that I will bet it will be impossible for even Labour to wriggle out of.
We had 3 Royal Naval Air Stations.
We now have 2 Royal Naval Air Stations, plus a place that used to be a Royal Naval Air Station, that used to have a Sqn on it that now has a Flight on it n the same building that used to hold the Sqn. And the Flight has the same people as the Sqn used to. Hmmmm.
The RAF, on the other hand seems to be in terminal decline.
How many Sqns did the RAF have even 10 yrs ago compared with now?
More importantly, how many of those sqns actually still fly on a regular basis?
E3? ........not really
Nimrod?.....Hanging in there god bless em, and soon to be replaced by something inferior (another nimrod)in all respects except endurance.
F3........who knows, or cares.
Jaguar?.......computer says no.
Canberra??.......computer says no.
Harrier? ........2 became dark blue.
Sentinel?.......very pretty on the pan.
C17?...........Hurrah!!! you got something new and decent!
Merlin Mk3?...Not a bad bit of kit, but lets face it, it's not what you would have picked.
Ok and you got the airshow jet.
C130? .......Not many left.
I know which I would bet my money on flying off the carriers.
Incidentally PN, many of the Harrier boys have always come from rotary.
We now have, erm, two front line Harrier Sqns.
We had numerous Front line Rotary Sqns.
We now have ever so slightly more, flying vastly superior aircraft across all sqns.
We had 3 "through deck cruisers"
We now have 2 truly shagged "through deck cruisers" one effective but horrible cheapy built helicopter carrier, a couple of other big decks plus, and it is a big plus, 2 650000 ton carriers under contract that I will bet it will be impossible for even Labour to wriggle out of.
We had 3 Royal Naval Air Stations.
We now have 2 Royal Naval Air Stations, plus a place that used to be a Royal Naval Air Station, that used to have a Sqn on it that now has a Flight on it n the same building that used to hold the Sqn. And the Flight has the same people as the Sqn used to. Hmmmm.
The RAF, on the other hand seems to be in terminal decline.
How many Sqns did the RAF have even 10 yrs ago compared with now?
More importantly, how many of those sqns actually still fly on a regular basis?
E3? ........not really
Nimrod?.....Hanging in there god bless em, and soon to be replaced by something inferior (another nimrod)in all respects except endurance.
F3........who knows, or cares.
Jaguar?.......computer says no.
Canberra??.......computer says no.
Harrier? ........2 became dark blue.
Sentinel?.......very pretty on the pan.
C17?...........Hurrah!!! you got something new and decent!
Merlin Mk3?...Not a bad bit of kit, but lets face it, it's not what you would have picked.
Ok and you got the airshow jet.
C130? .......Not many left.
I know which I would bet my money on flying off the carriers.
Incidentally PN, many of the Harrier boys have always come from rotary.
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Maybe think Purple?
Would the amalgamation of the three (shrinking) Armed Services , into a single Service (with a single service budget) be such a bad thing?
Only a thought, not a wish.
Discuss?
Would the amalgamation of the three (shrinking) Armed Services , into a single Service (with a single service budget) be such a bad thing?
Only a thought, not a wish.
Discuss?
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I have to say the ridiculous rivalry and lack of common goal between the services is damaging to effectiveness and wasteful. It also makes the Armed Forces vulnerable to government divide and conquer tactics. The glory days
of the UK Military are over.
It's sad to loose the history and tradition but a single service made up of different units based upon role only is the answer and is almost certainly where the purple concept has to go.
of the UK Military are over.
It's sad to loose the history and tradition but a single service made up of different units based upon role only is the answer and is almost certainly where the purple concept has to go.
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Pelikanpete
You are quite right.
Just look at the commercial world. Whenever we want efficiency and effectiveness we always find that a monopoly is best.
Oh...... wait a minute........
You are quite right.
Just look at the commercial world. Whenever we want efficiency and effectiveness we always find that a monopoly is best.
Oh...... wait a minute........
OLD RED DAMASK
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Just look at the commercial world. Whenever we want efficiency and effectiveness we always find that a monopoly is best.
And perhaps we could call ourselves the UK Marine Corps!
Sadly, we don't compare with the USMC in terms of numbers of aircraft, and have not done so for very many years.
Turning to the CAF, Canadian naval "lieutenants" in the CAF's joint days always used to have fun calling themselves "captain", especially when arranging transport and accommodation to visit ships or establishments resulted in them being treated as four-stripers - briefly!
Jack
PS Tourist - Ooh! You are a tease .....
Sadly, we don't compare with the USMC in terms of numbers of aircraft, and have not done so for very many years.
Turning to the CAF, Canadian naval "lieutenants" in the CAF's joint days always used to have fun calling themselves "captain", especially when arranging transport and accommodation to visit ships or establishments resulted in them being treated as four-stripers - briefly!
Jack
PS Tourist - Ooh! You are a tease .....
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It looks as if we'll be back to the 30s when the RN drove the ships and the RAF the aircraft...
In the 30's (In fact from about 1921 onwards)
(1) The Navy Owned the budget but the RAF procurred the A/c
(2) The Air squadrons were mainly Manned by RN aircrew because Trenchard (a) couldn't convince his boys to go to sea (b) Believed that Carrier aviation was dangerous and (c) believed that long range bombing had more effect than Carrier strike.
From my quite close experience of 1F and Happy 4 on the boat over the last few years I would have no qualms about the RAF operating JCA off CVF - the guys on these 2 squadrons embrace the challenge, enjoy the experience and generally leave wanting to come back - the bunfights only occur higher up the food chain.
You'll know better than me but take a look here -
Jointery - Going to Sea
As near as dammit 2/3's of them would vote with their feet if it became a permenent feature of their careers. not good for retention and costly in training I think.