resuming of inquest XV179
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resuming of inquest XV179
dear all,
for those of you interested, the inquest into XV179 resumes in 30-09-08. i am sure it probably now gone and long been forgotten. but there may be some of you who want to know.
this time, i won't be there. i have to endure the pain of not being part of it. i just hope the truth will out and this time us the relatives won't be taken for the fools people think we seem to be with the favoutite phrase of i can't recall and suchlike.
keep safe.
keep the faith.
for those of you interested, the inquest into XV179 resumes in 30-09-08. i am sure it probably now gone and long been forgotten. but there may be some of you who want to know.
this time, i won't be there. i have to endure the pain of not being part of it. i just hope the truth will out and this time us the relatives won't be taken for the fools people think we seem to be with the favoutite phrase of i can't recall and suchlike.
keep safe.
keep the faith.
I flew with Smudge on my final swan-song Herc trip to the Falklands via Brazil both ways. We had such a laugh on the route at many things including his wild-cat motor bike stories-on ironically this, my last trip, and this first real route trip--and it was apparent then that this charming and honest young man was to be a real star in the making--he had a "good pair of hands" --meaning he was a naturally and highly-talented pilot and he was much-liked by all. It is such a waste, such a waste but a least if it is a little crumb of consolation--he died doing what he absolutely loved. He is dearly missed, and if I may say I still think about him and his cheeky smile a lot--God Bless Smudge.
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Military chiefs knew that RAF Hercules planes needed a vital safety feature fitted, but failed to act until after a fatal crash, an inquest has heard.
BBC NEWS | UK | Hercules risk 'was widely known'
Well done finding out what everyone suspected
BBC NEWS | UK | Hercules risk 'was widely known'
Well done finding out what everyone suspected
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graham,
thankyou for puttting that on.
i am having a bloody good blub right now as i am left feeling so impotent and useless that i am stuck here and can't be down at inquest listening to this. so the net has to be my lifeline. i wouldn't mind but i am stuck in a job i don't like so it's not as if i can find comfort in that. i can't hear the info, i can't ask questions. there is no preparing for the fact that they knew and yet like we tried to establish the last time we had to wait for someone to die before it was actioned.
theres nothing more i can say.....
thankyou for puttting that on.
i am having a bloody good blub right now as i am left feeling so impotent and useless that i am stuck here and can't be down at inquest listening to this. so the net has to be my lifeline. i wouldn't mind but i am stuck in a job i don't like so it's not as if i can find comfort in that. i can't hear the info, i can't ask questions. there is no preparing for the fact that they knew and yet like we tried to establish the last time we had to wait for someone to die before it was actioned.
theres nothing more i can say.....
I'm sure everyone on here will be sending you e-hugs, chappie.
On the BBC Oxford TV news there was a very good piece concerning the latest information being presented to the enquiry.
The lack of action on 2 consecutive TAT reports was well highlighted; the coroner is made of stout stuff and no amount of MoD bluster and bull**** is going to cover up the truth.
Very best wishes to you!
On the BBC Oxford TV news there was a very good piece concerning the latest information being presented to the enquiry.
The lack of action on 2 consecutive TAT reports was well highlighted; the coroner is made of stout stuff and no amount of MoD bluster and bull**** is going to cover up the truth.
Very best wishes to you!
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And just what is the truth then, Beagle?
Do we think it's likely to be established by this Coroner? Was it established by the BoI? Was it known by the crew of 179 or by the chain of command?
There are many facts, many opinions, lots of agendas, some hidden, some not so.
Lots of good people sadly passed, lots of good people's names being dragged through the mud on both sides of the debate...
Truth depends on where you sit....
RIP 179.
Do we think it's likely to be established by this Coroner? Was it established by the BoI? Was it known by the crew of 179 or by the chain of command?
There are many facts, many opinions, lots of agendas, some hidden, some not so.
Lots of good people sadly passed, lots of good people's names being dragged through the mud on both sides of the debate...
Truth depends on where you sit....
RIP 179.
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The truth?
The truth does NOT depend where you sit - the truth is just that, the truth. The MOD knew about the safety flaws with the Hercules - FACT. People (good people) died because the MOD did nothing about it. I just hope that this time around people, who used to be respected, don't suffer from another bout of amnesia 
.
Chappie - please rest assured that, despite the time that may have passed, XV179 and her wonderful crew are definitely NOT forgotten. Their memory will always live on.
.Chappie - please rest assured that, despite the time that may have passed, XV179 and her wonderful crew are definitely NOT forgotten. Their memory will always live on.
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If you need to know, you will already know
Last edited by CirrusF; 1st Oct 2008 at 06:00.
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N2DBD
Couldn't agree more, but what is peddled to be the truth by many doesn't necessarily make it the truth.
Ultimately the opinion of the BoI, the opinion of HM coroner, yours and my opinion are valid. Some carry the weight of law, or the weight of official sanction, some don't.
And if you can so clearly recall what was said/discussed/decided with sufficient detail a number of years ago, I suggest you report it via the appropriate channels to HM coroner. I'm sure your clarity could only help...
There are a number of agendas running under the cover of this tragic incident, some of which are bent on presenting (or forcing acceptance of) the truth as they see it. To what ends I'm sure they can tell you themselves. It is not my place to judge anyone.
There are few days that go past that I don't pass a thought for my friends who perished on 179. I can not begin to comprehend the loss felt by the relatives and loved ones of those left behind. However, I don't believe I cast any disrespect on my friends or their loved ones by having an opinion.
Couldn't agree more, but what is peddled to be the truth by many doesn't necessarily make it the truth.
Ultimately the opinion of the BoI, the opinion of HM coroner, yours and my opinion are valid. Some carry the weight of law, or the weight of official sanction, some don't.
And if you can so clearly recall what was said/discussed/decided with sufficient detail a number of years ago, I suggest you report it via the appropriate channels to HM coroner. I'm sure your clarity could only help...
There are a number of agendas running under the cover of this tragic incident, some of which are bent on presenting (or forcing acceptance of) the truth as they see it. To what ends I'm sure they can tell you themselves. It is not my place to judge anyone.
There are few days that go past that I don't pass a thought for my friends who perished on 179. I can not begin to comprehend the loss felt by the relatives and loved ones of those left behind. However, I don't believe I cast any disrespect on my friends or their loved ones by having an opinion.
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H&S
N2DBD
quote " The MOD knew about the safety flaws with the Hercules - FACT"
So you are stating that those Hercs flying through, up and over, say the Mach loop are in fact "unsafe"?
If you are going to have a pop, do it properly.
Address the Operational Hazards and the ineffectiveness of both Command and the MOD to address them.
We are, now, ALL aware off these issues but leave the Health/Safety BS out, OK.
Good men, one and all. RIP.
quote " The MOD knew about the safety flaws with the Hercules - FACT"
So you are stating that those Hercs flying through, up and over, say the Mach loop are in fact "unsafe"?
If you are going to have a pop, do it properly.
Address the Operational Hazards and the ineffectiveness of both Command and the MOD to address them.
We are, now, ALL aware off these issues but leave the Health/Safety BS out, OK.
Good men, one and all. RIP.
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What I mean is those who are currently serving will have access to the data/details about what groundfire brought the aircraft down. Those who are not currently serving do not need to know exactly what brought the aircraft down other than it was 'groundfire'.
Isn't that why things are kept classified to reduce the vulnerabilites to the enemy. If the enemy knew what the weak spots were, they would concentrate their efforts in that field.
I served on 47 and am still in and keep in contact with many people at Lyneham, so I am fully aware of the issues which is why I said what I said. If someone really needs to know what the threat was, then they can speak to someone who knows the answer rather than make that answer public on a site visible to friendlies and enemy alike.
You are pretending that official secrecy should protect either the aircraft's vulnerability to ground attack, or the capabilities of ground to air weapons available to the insurgents.
I served on 47 and am still in and keep in contact with many people at Lyneham, so I am fully aware of the issues which is why I said what I said. If someone really needs to know what the threat was, then they can speak to someone who knows the answer rather than make that answer public on a site visible to friendlies and enemy alike.
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[QUOTE]
official secrecy SHOULD protect either the aircraft's vulnerability to ground attack, [QUOTE]
Well the insurgents already know what weapon can bring down a C130, so it is clearly not a secret to them. So if the information is being withheld from the rest of us then it is a cover-up.
How is covering up that capability going to disadvantage the insurgents? They know what they have, they know that we know, so it makes no difference whatsoever if that information is more widely known.
official secrecy SHOULD protect either the aircraft's vulnerability to ground attack, [QUOTE]
Well the insurgents already know what weapon can bring down a C130, so it is clearly not a secret to them. So if the information is being withheld from the rest of us then it is a cover-up.
or the capabilities of ground to air weapons available to the insurgents
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Secrets . . . in context, surely
Are we really saying that 'the enemy' are so ignorant that they couldn't look at the last 50 odd years of C130 operations around the globe and NOT have worked out what 'works best'?
Chappie, no one who cares will forget. I hope for you the Inquest verdict, whatever and whenever it is brings some comfort at last. As to the RAF community at large, this tragedy will be forever remembered, both of itself and for the tenacious struggle by the bereaved and their supporters to rectify the obvious deficiency that existed on XV179 then, in the remainder of the fleet. You were a pivotal part of that struggle and its success not only achieved the protection to his colleagues denied your brother but spilled over into a broader fight to reverse the reduction in airworthiness protection of the UK military airfleet by the MOD over the past two decades. There is still denial over this in the Chain of Command, but the methodical sifting by the Coroners will systematically expose this scandal and hopefully close the door once and for all on this shameful neglect. To those involved directly in this cause I simply say "Keep up the good fight and bring back Flight Safety to the Royal Air Force".