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RAAF Flight Screening Programme

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RAAF Flight Screening Programme

Old 3rd Apr 2010, 10:26
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P.S.

Just bought Biggles' Big Adventures so i'm a fan of your nickname
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 11:03
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spacmantan,

goota agree with ozbiggles. Once your in if you met the grade you pass. As I said some time ago the numbers coming into recruiting are down to what they were 3-5-10 years ago. Simply, the more fish you net the choosier you can be with what you pick out. If you only net a small amount you have got to take what you have caught.

What reduction in hours? The change at BFTS has increased the hours at 2FTS. Or do you mean because of the change at BFTS (see 1FTS hours) that trainees are having a more difficult time at 2FTS
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 11:49
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G'day Spaceman
Not a go at you at all. Just wanted to make sure people understand once your in, the pass/mark doesn't change based on how many pilots the Raaf needs. As finestkind says, any changes in output required would be dealt at the input stage ie at selection.
If there is not to much demand at the other end it just means you will wait longer for a conversion and there may not be many choices for the instructors to send you to.
I have never said anything different. There are a number of user names similar to mine which may be the cause of some confusion.
As for a reduction in quality, I'd have to say no. The 'assessment system' at 2fts is very accurate, as close as you get to 100%.(note, not perfect but very good)
Helmet and flak vest on But I would say no one who has been scrubbed didn't deserve it as long as their instructor was doing their job. Many have gone on from it to be outstanding pilots elsewhere and many now check ex mil guys into their RPT futures. A lesson for young guys, never dish another pilot. One day he will probably be checking you!
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Old 3rd Apr 2010, 12:35
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But undeniably the "grade" so to speak has changed over recent years due to the decline in hours. Surely students aren't expected to meet the same standard as those who completed their training with greater hours? I'm pretty sure it used to be upward of 100hrs at BFTS where as now its down to 65... Can't remember the figures for 2FTS, last I heard there was going to be a small increase in hours for an extra component.. but overall there has been a reduction in hours.

One of the reasons for the reduction in hours, apart from cost cutting, was to get more people through in order to fill the expected vacancies in the upcoming acquisitions. Unfortunately Wedgetail was late, and the KC-30 is still a bit away... Super Hornet just arrived and JSF keeps getting pushed back. So there are now a large number of post wings pilots who are in virtual limbo because of the wait between 2FTS and conversions. Last time I spoke to someone in this boat it was a 18 month wait.

Sure a fix on the supply end will fix the problem... but that will take a year or two to trickle down towards the end. The quicker fix that i've heard is for the training units to be a little bit more fussy... so to speak.

Thats what i've heard, so thats what i've been saying.

I don't necessarily agree with the way things are happening but I don't make the decisions....
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Old 4th Apr 2010, 00:24
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Still disagree spaceman.

Why has the grade changed. The BFTS syllabus has reverted(effectively) to the old 1FTS one whilst the 2FTS syllabus has (effectively) returned to the previous one. Little reduction in overall hours.

As far as meeting the same standards, well we have a slightly different type of aircraft to fly compared to 30 years ago. I agree that the ADF needs to look at its training system as not much has changed in, ohhh, how long ( apart from lets go to straight through training back to two types, what 3- 4 times) 40 plus years. Is the way we fight the same as how we did in Korea?
But I digress, I would suggest that standard is as high as ever as can be seen by the bleating from the knucklehead world that they are not getting the numbers they want. Hark back to my "less coming in smaller net analogy"
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Old 4th Apr 2010, 03:53
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Can't say i'm familiar with the old 1FTS syllabus so my knowledge of past requirements and grades is quite limited... therefore i wont comment except to say that that is an interesting point.

What i've heard from those bleating nuckleheads is that the quality is not as good. My impression from discussions i've had with those that care is that the number of students going on to 79 sqn are just the same as they have always been (in recent years anyways), and in fact there has recently been a small backlog of students post 2FTS waiting for Hawk conversion... but the quality has dipped. Hence why not enough are making it through to 76 and thence to 2OCU.

I'm actually thinking of creating a new thread to discuss this, because I don't think talking about the various problems with the training system is going to do alot for people wanting to know more about Flight Screening and PSA in this thread.
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Old 4th Apr 2010, 05:58
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Fair enough but how can you comment on the grades if you are unsure of what they once were.

Also lends weight to the agrument about the smaller the catch in the net the less likely you will be able to pick enough potential knuckleheads. However that does not mean the standards have lowered. All it means is that the quality does not have as many shiny jet jockies. All they are doing is sending the same number across and as such less are likely to make it through. However you can even question my statement about the quality by throwing in this. I have no doubt that there are a number of knucklehead candidates that get to 79SQN or further down track and start to realise, gee if only I'd gone C130 etc I would be logging double if not triple the hours Captain of the aircarft and actually operational as opposed to still under training, still under the pump with the possibilty of being scrubbed, well thats a motivator.
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 07:00
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Hey Everybody,
This is my first post here and can I just start by saying that this thread is an absolute gold mine. So many valuable contributions for aspiring pilots like myself to absorb.

Anyways, I am in the beginning stages of the recruitment process. I have my Specific Pilot Aptitude Testing day on the 12th of April (1 week away). I am fairly confident with my aptitude skills although I'm not here discuss that.

I'm here in hope that someone with a good understanding of DFR can answer an important question for me that I have been receiving mixed answers on. It is in relation to my Medical History.

A short while ago I received a shoulder injury which required X rays and a sling for 2 weeks. I received Centrelink Benefits for a couple weeks due to not being able to work and I used Medicare for the X rays. X rays reveal a minor irregularity with the shoulder (in terms of the collarbone)

but it is important that I point out that the shoulder has returned to 100% and I have full motion.

Getting to the point, I am worried about mentioning this problem in my Medical History Questionnaire as I believe I will be graded as a CLASS 4 regardless of how much I explain that it is no longer a problem.

I'm just looking for some advice on what I should do at assessment day in relationship to my medical questionnaire. I don't want to lie about anything and am generally a very honest person although I also don't want to be knocked back for a reason I know is unfair. Does anybody know if DFR will check medical history through a government database system or do they rely on the answers you give in the Medical History Questionnaire, and then request records if there seems to be a problem?

I have no problem performing physical tasks such as push ups, or anything for that matter (I swim 5km per week, and work out with weights also with no problems).

A BIG thankyou in advance for anybody that can help me!
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 07:38
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Hmm yeah that's a tough one. I'm kind of in the same boat. I put something on mine I wish I hadn't because I know it isn't a problem at all however it will hold up my application or even void it. Every time I think about it I wish I didn't put it on the questionnaire just in case. It's up to you mate, as far as I know they don't check databases or anything but if it does become a problem during training and It's found you withheld info you'll be discharged.

Maybe someone can help with mine. I had a varicose vein removed like 3 years ago, does anyone know if thats grounds for Class 4 medical? Please say no haha, stressing big time.
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Old 5th Apr 2010, 12:38
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BurningDesire:

The most probable reason you are getting mixed answers from DFR, is that the only staff that are able to give advice on medical issues, are the medical staff themselves. CC's DI's and Case managers aren't legally aloud to give advice so you tend to get hazy ansers from them.

If you can prove through your GP and whatever specialist you may have seen that the arm will not create any issues during your career as an officer and a pilot then there should be no problems. The only thing I can see happening is that the ADF may want to examine the issue a little further through AVMED. This may hold up your application for a little while.

Lying on your medical questionaire is up to you but Oneflewnorth is bang on when he says that you can be discharged for it if you are discovered to have lied. Honesty is the best policy but cover your bases by providing GP's letters and maybe the opinion of a specialist.

Oneflewnorth:

I'm not a Dr but i just wiki'ed Varicose veins... I'm not qualified to say yes or no but as I mentioned above, cover your bases with information for DFR from GP's and specialists.

All the best to both of you! and good luck for the aptitude test BurningDesire
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 00:53
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Oneflewnorth - Hey when do you find out from DFR if it will be a problem or not. To me, it doesn't sound like it should be a problem, but I don't know much about Varicose veins. So What stages are you at? Did you just have our assessment day? Are you waiting for an offer to FSP?

Spacemantan - Hey thanks for the advice and well wishes. Yeah I do realise that I would be discharged if they found out later on. I'm sure i can handle the training without it becoming a problem, but maybe there are other ways that they will find out? It's such a hard decision. I'm sure I can get GP and Specialist reports to vouch that my shoulder is ok. So I'm kind of leaning towards nominating it on my Medical but having a pile of specialist reports from many different specialists and GP's stating that it's fine.

So do you guys really think that specialist reports will really help the situation or will they still judge the situation themselves regardless?
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 03:42
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English Comprehension

Hi all,
I have a quick question I hope someone can help me with. I have read on some posts that there is "english comprehension" in the first and second aptitude tests for pilots at the YOU day. Can anyone tell me if this is just the "Foot is to Leg as Hand is to a, head. b, arm" etc type stuff or do they also involve reading passages and then deducing the most likely statement?

Thanks Jorocketoz

p.s. keep up the great forum
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 03:53
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As far as med stuff goes, get advice from the med staff at recruiting. Regardless, as mentioned it is fraudulent to fail to disclose. More to the point if it means you are unsuitable now then there are many ways in which to get stuff fixed and have another go. I know of plenty of guys with niggling injuries that have, at times, seriously affected their performance. How do you come clean with that one in the middle of pilots' course! I know one guy got caught during pilot training recently - and how much do you think that held them up?! Not only did the issue need to be resolved, but there is also an investigation into why it wasn’t disclosed originally...sucks to be him!

Hey Spaceman, why so dark about quality of trainees? You seem to know what you are talking about, so you would also be aware that the syllabus and number of QFIs that a trainee flies with means it has to be some serious conspiracy to get someone through under the required standard!
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 08:39
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Hey Spaceman, why so dark about quality of trainees? You seem to know what you are talking about, so you would also be aware that the syllabus and number of QFIs that a trainee flies with means it has to be some serious conspiracy to get someone through under the required standard!
I really think we'll need to start a new thread to discuss this further. I'm not suggesting there is a conspiracy theory at all... I'm merely an impressionable pilot who's heard rumblings from those in ATW/ACG about quality of graduates.

Many who i've spoken to agree that there are a number of reasons for this which does include the softening of "grades" so to speak.

To a certain degree I believe it. If 2FTS's goal is provide pilots ready and able to complete OPCON, then why are there more people bombing out of conversion... I honestly cannot back any figures up because i'm just not in the know... But thats what i've heard...

Having said that though, I believe the quality of instruction at 2FTS is superb and it could simply be a case of some people falling through the cracks...
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 09:58
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[QUOTETo a certain degree I believe it. If 2FTS's goal is provide pilots ready and able to complete OPCON, then why are there more people bombing out of conversion... ][/QUOTE]
Wouldn't be anything to do with the 2 - 6 month delay between finishing BFTS and starting 2FTS, and the (up to) 18 month delay to start an OPCON post wings now wouldn't it?
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Old 6th Apr 2010, 23:36
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CSD, I'm laughing reading that. It's the old Elephant in the Room that just won't go away.
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Old 7th Apr 2010, 06:56
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Question

So you guys all think that a couple specialist opinions and a GP report (From a CASA certified GP) will carry some weighting regarding a medical issue thats not too serious?
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Old 7th Apr 2010, 12:15
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If you decide to disclose it be armed with anything you can to prevent delays. Specialist reports, physio reports, doc reports, notes from personal trainers/coaches you name it. You could always play down the seriousness of it to the doc at DFR

All I wanna do is go flying!!! It's been too long. I've got no God damn money! Donations welcome, I take all major credit cards, BPAY, bank deposit, cash and cheque...or your plane

Last edited by oneflewnorth; 7th Apr 2010 at 12:30.
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Old 8th Apr 2010, 08:17
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30+ and wanting to fly!

Hey all,
I have posted a similar question in the past but am really interested if anyone has actually been selected and or passed for BFTS and gone onto pass and become a pilot?

I am now over 30 and am beginning my process to apply as this is always what I have wanted to do.

Any insight is appreciated.
Cheers.
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Old 8th Apr 2010, 11:29
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Can be done mate, I was 31 at FSP, 32 at BFTS. That was a few years ago, and I'm RAN, not sure about RAAF, Captain Sand Dune could give you a more accurate, current answer.

You'll never know if you don't have a crack.
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