RAAF Flight Screening Programme
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Does it really seem excessive that (for ADFA entry anyway) they would take in around 30 pilots a year?
Bit worrying hearing that more than 50% of the pilots fail! Might have to start doing some more private training throughout ADFA!
Bit worrying hearing that more than 50% of the pilots fail! Might have to start doing some more private training throughout ADFA!
failure rates vary from course to course, 50% is high but possible on one course. 20-30% average would be moe likely and 10-20% make jets. Don't let the numbers scare you its def achievable.
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Second that!
Georgo and Joker, I'll second that!
Don't let anything deter you from working hard and aimming high. If you want it hard enough, you'll work hard enough for it, and regardless of intakes - you'll be putting forward a strong case for appointment.
Unless you are told by a qualified source, as in someone who works in Canberra at Defence, I would take what you hear on number of intakes as sheer rumour. Those numbers are secret business, repeat secret. Yes the intakes are low this year, and possibly will continue to be in the future, but that is about it. Unfortunately CJ0203, what you hear at FSP comes from trainee pilots in a place rife with rumour - see beginning of paragraph.
One thing everyone seems to have neglected is that the 2010 FSP schedule is up on the RAAF website. The number of spots is the same in 2010, but with an additional 18 spots for Observer applicants. The number of DE spots is down in 2010 (159) from 2009 (177), and the number of ADFA spots is up in 2010 (117) from 2009 (99). It may not sound like a lot, but that is a pretty big shift towards ADFA, at least in the recruiting stage. How these numbers carry through in terms of intakes, it's anybodies guess??????
Fail rate varies from course to course, but over the long-term, about 50% is a fair call. The learning curve is very steep, over a long period of time. Limited resources require this to be the case in order to maximise productivity.
Again, don't let numbers deter you - the good get through no matter what. Pilots course is definitely passable - many people have been through it and many will in the future. Many have failed ADF pilots course and gone onto be civilian pilots who have done well. Failing ADF pilots course does not mean you cannot be a pilot, it just says you do not meet those very high standards required by the military that are not so much in civilian aviation.
Don't let anything deter you from working hard and aimming high. If you want it hard enough, you'll work hard enough for it, and regardless of intakes - you'll be putting forward a strong case for appointment.
Unless you are told by a qualified source, as in someone who works in Canberra at Defence, I would take what you hear on number of intakes as sheer rumour. Those numbers are secret business, repeat secret. Yes the intakes are low this year, and possibly will continue to be in the future, but that is about it. Unfortunately CJ0203, what you hear at FSP comes from trainee pilots in a place rife with rumour - see beginning of paragraph.
One thing everyone seems to have neglected is that the 2010 FSP schedule is up on the RAAF website. The number of spots is the same in 2010, but with an additional 18 spots for Observer applicants. The number of DE spots is down in 2010 (159) from 2009 (177), and the number of ADFA spots is up in 2010 (117) from 2009 (99). It may not sound like a lot, but that is a pretty big shift towards ADFA, at least in the recruiting stage. How these numbers carry through in terms of intakes, it's anybodies guess??????
Fail rate varies from course to course, but over the long-term, about 50% is a fair call. The learning curve is very steep, over a long period of time. Limited resources require this to be the case in order to maximise productivity.
Again, don't let numbers deter you - the good get through no matter what. Pilots course is definitely passable - many people have been through it and many will in the future. Many have failed ADF pilots course and gone onto be civilian pilots who have done well. Failing ADF pilots course does not mean you cannot be a pilot, it just says you do not meet those very high standards required by the military that are not so much in civilian aviation.
).
I know its thread drift but I just want to try and confirm where these 50% scrub rates are coming from. When I went thought we lost 1 person at BFTS and 5 people at 2FTS. And that was in line with the percentages I gave in my previous post. Those percentages were also, in general, not any better or worse than other courses I have seen go though. Perhaps its changed but 50% was more like the ARMY scrub rate at BFTS. RAAF and NAVY seemed to perform on average much better. Anyway might be wrong....
My course started with 24 RAAF/RAN and 10 Army.
12 RAAF/RAN passed 2FTS and 4 Army passed Kiowa conversion.
But that was back in the day when course was actually hard and 2FTS was not a sausage factory
To people who say if you work hard enough anything is possible.... Its just not true, there were some guys on my course who worked like mad men studying every spare moment. You either have it or you dont.
12 RAAF/RAN passed 2FTS and 4 Army passed Kiowa conversion.
But that was back in the day when course was actually hard and 2FTS was not a sausage factory
To people who say if you work hard enough anything is possible.... Its just not true, there were some guys on my course who worked like mad men studying every spare moment. You either have it or you dont.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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I qoute Joker89;
"When I went thought we lost 1 person at BFTS and 5 people at 2FTS."
May I ask what happens to these individuals when they realise that they don't what it takes to become a pilot? Are they allowed to leave the force all together or do they find some role in the defence force and follow through with their IMPS?
... Knowing full well that all they ever wanted to become was a pilot and nothing else.
"When I went thought we lost 1 person at BFTS and 5 people at 2FTS."
May I ask what happens to these individuals when they realise that they don't what it takes to become a pilot? Are they allowed to leave the force all together or do they find some role in the defence force and follow through with their IMPS?
... Knowing full well that all they ever wanted to become was a pilot and nothing else.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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IMPS (more commonly called ROSO - Return Of Service Obligation) is only valid for direct entry if you finish pilots course, if you go ADFA you will still have IMPS/ROSO of at least a couple of years, which they will generally extract from you in some way.
My course start with 16 at 2FTS and 8 passed, but like slezy that was in the bad old days.
My course start with 16 at 2FTS and 8 passed, but like slezy that was in the bad old days.
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Well done on getting through the tests mate. Have a look at the FSP schedule for this year and next before you feel down on your luck. It depends on when you will get the call from PSA for two reasons. A) How good of an applicant you are and B) when PSA receives your file and what courses they have running. You could be the best DE applicant - they won't be putting you on FSP until a DE course is being run.
Without taking your application into account, if PSA only received your file in September, the DE FSP courses for October were probably already filled. The courses in November and December are all ADFA, they shut down over Christmas. The first FSP for DE is middle of Jan '10, they won't start filling that for a while yet. From there they run all the way through to the end of May - so you may not hear anything until March or so next year.
In terms of your other tests - the results will expire if you change job preferences or withdraw your application and then reapply again in the future. Best to check with recruiting though, but one hundred percent positive on it - if you have passed all the tests to date, you will not have to do them while your file is at PSA. Even after you've been to FSP and waiting in a selection pool, all your test results are still valid and will not expire.
It is a waiting game my friend, patience is a virtue.
Without taking your application into account, if PSA only received your file in September, the DE FSP courses for October were probably already filled. The courses in November and December are all ADFA, they shut down over Christmas. The first FSP for DE is middle of Jan '10, they won't start filling that for a while yet. From there they run all the way through to the end of May - so you may not hear anything until March or so next year.
In terms of your other tests - the results will expire if you change job preferences or withdraw your application and then reapply again in the future. Best to check with recruiting though, but one hundred percent positive on it - if you have passed all the tests to date, you will not have to do them while your file is at PSA. Even after you've been to FSP and waiting in a selection pool, all your test results are still valid and will not expire.
It is a waiting game my friend, patience is a virtue.
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Hi all,
I'm up for Pilot Specific Testing in December and I'm not sure exactly what to wear (suit?,neat casual). Obviously a suit would be worn to Assement day but i'm not quite sure what the case would be for separate testing.
I've got a reasonable idea of what i'm up for on the day, but please feel free to tell me I've missed or mistaken anything.
-Computer based math test (simple stuff from what I've heard)
-Paper based test (more complex aviation math probs., instrument comp.)
-Co-ordination test ("WOMBAT" I think)
Regarding flight screening courses (In the hope that I get into one). I've got around 15 hours flying gliders and will almost definately clock up even more in the next few weeks. Would this put me in the advanced group in Flight Screening (not having a clue as to how to use an engine might be a bit of a disadvantage
)
Thankyou in advance for all replies
Cheers,
I'm up for Pilot Specific Testing in December and I'm not sure exactly what to wear (suit?,neat casual). Obviously a suit would be worn to Assement day but i'm not quite sure what the case would be for separate testing.
I've got a reasonable idea of what i'm up for on the day, but please feel free to tell me I've missed or mistaken anything.
-Computer based math test (simple stuff from what I've heard)
-Paper based test (more complex aviation math probs., instrument comp.)
-Co-ordination test ("WOMBAT" I think)
Regarding flight screening courses (In the hope that I get into one). I've got around 15 hours flying gliders and will almost definately clock up even more in the next few weeks. Would this put me in the advanced group in Flight Screening (not having a clue as to how to use an engine might be a bit of a disadvantage
)Thankyou in advance for all replies
Cheers,
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I could well be wrong here, but I'm under the impression that you are free of IMPS up to a certain point at BFTS (eg. if you failed within the first couple of weeks you probably wouldn't get the whole 11.5 years). Matters like that are of little interest anyway, none of us plan to fail right? For me personally, this is one contingency that I haven't given thought to because I wouldn't think twice about accepting a ROSO of twice the actual amount just for a chance at BFTS.
On a different note, I realise that one of the desired traits in a potential RAAF recruit is good time management. I've held jobs throughout school and Uni and I've never had a problem with managing my time, however I haven't had one for the past year as I'd saved enough to make it through (and do a little flying on the side!), the extra time on my hands ensuring that I maintain a nice grade average. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but in retrospect it seems like that may not have been the best choice (ie. suggest I have poor time management skills). Has anyone been in a similar situation, or have any idea how it is likely to affect my application?
On a different note, I realise that one of the desired traits in a potential RAAF recruit is good time management. I've held jobs throughout school and Uni and I've never had a problem with managing my time, however I haven't had one for the past year as I'd saved enough to make it through (and do a little flying on the side!), the extra time on my hands ensuring that I maintain a nice grade average. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but in retrospect it seems like that may not have been the best choice (ie. suggest I have poor time management skills). Has anyone been in a similar situation, or have any idea how it is likely to affect my application?
Join Date: Oct 2009
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AlexanderB -
People who have logged over 20 hours do the advanced course. Although I think this might need to be 20 hours of powered flight. Either way you should be right.
MudRatt -
When I sat my OSB (earlier this year) I wasn't employed. I had worked throughout high school and college and for the next year (Uni) I hadn't worked at all. It wasn't even mentioned in the interview though.
People who have logged over 20 hours do the advanced course. Although I think this might need to be 20 hours of powered flight. Either way you should be right.
MudRatt -
When I sat my OSB (earlier this year) I wasn't employed. I had worked throughout high school and college and for the next year (Uni) I hadn't worked at all. It wasn't even mentioned in the interview though.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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35 started on my course in 1985 and 17 finished in 1986. Aaaargh...when I were a lad.........etc etc.
The course is just as hard now as when it was then lads.
What is different is the "governance" B.S. associated with it. Back in the bad ol' days the CFI would scrub you just because he thought your eyes were too close together and he was in a bad mood. Today the justification and paperwork required, coupled with the lack of gumption displayed by some in charge fearing a redress means to actually suspend a poor student is a lot harder.
The course is just as hard now as when it was then lads.
What is different is the "governance" B.S. associated with it. Back in the bad ol' days the CFI would scrub you just because he thought your eyes were too close together and he was in a bad mood. Today the justification and paperwork required, coupled with the lack of gumption displayed by some in charge fearing a redress means to actually suspend a poor student is a lot harder.
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From memory, the difference between Beginner's and Advanced on FSP is:
Beginners: 7 sorties in CT4B and 3 in a CAP10.
Advanced: 5 sorties in CT4B and 5 in the CAP10, performing the same manoeuvres and aerobatics, and then with a few extra thrown in (barrel roll, slow roll and inverted flight to mention a few).
The Advanced course moves at a faster pace to fit the extra bits in, meaning there is less time in the aircraft per manoeuvre, plus you have to do them mostly in a more fiddly aircraft!
For all those aspiring leaders, an interesting read (or listen if you wish), written by the retired General Peter Cosgrove on the topic of leadership.
Boyer Lectures - 22November2009 - Lecture 3: Leading In Australia
Could be handy to throw in when you sit your board ;-)
Beginners: 7 sorties in CT4B and 3 in a CAP10.
Advanced: 5 sorties in CT4B and 5 in the CAP10, performing the same manoeuvres and aerobatics, and then with a few extra thrown in (barrel roll, slow roll and inverted flight to mention a few).
The Advanced course moves at a faster pace to fit the extra bits in, meaning there is less time in the aircraft per manoeuvre, plus you have to do them mostly in a more fiddly aircraft!
For all those aspiring leaders, an interesting read (or listen if you wish), written by the retired General Peter Cosgrove on the topic of leadership.
Boyer Lectures - 22November2009 - Lecture 3: Leading In Australia
Could be handy to throw in when you sit your board ;-)