re-enlistment for civvy pilot - any options?
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cirrus,
I strongly suspect you are wrong, but following your link which would suggest you are a fully paid up ARRSE I found this, ring any bells?
Ex-Forces Walts
This sub-group make up stories about their time in uniform to impress their new civilian colleagues and/or employers. They don't recognise that they are walts at all and usually end up back on ARRSE bigging it up in the belief that no-one will recognise them. Consider this recent extract from a rather uncautious new member: "On another note - when constructing your own CV for job hunting, I have found that you can just about make up any kind of bull**** for your military career. You can insert any kind of information during your military service that relates to the job you are going for and potential employers have no way of verifying your claims. If references are asked for then you state that person has been posted, cant trace him etc.." ....... Really now? Is that so?
Now remember when I suggested you could re join in your old trade if you were really serious about giving something back to the Army, you looked into that yet
I strongly suspect you are wrong, but following your link which would suggest you are a fully paid up ARRSE I found this, ring any bells?
Ex-Forces Walts
This sub-group make up stories about their time in uniform to impress their new civilian colleagues and/or employers. They don't recognise that they are walts at all and usually end up back on ARRSE bigging it up in the belief that no-one will recognise them. Consider this recent extract from a rather uncautious new member: "On another note - when constructing your own CV for job hunting, I have found that you can just about make up any kind of bull**** for your military career. You can insert any kind of information during your military service that relates to the job you are going for and potential employers have no way of verifying your claims. If references are asked for then you state that person has been posted, cant trace him etc.." ....... Really now? Is that so?
Now remember when I suggested you could re join in your old trade if you were really serious about giving something back to the Army, you looked into that yet
Thread Starter
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Maybe he is too old to rejoin paras? Maybe he just does not want to be goaded by you into talking about his previous service?
If cirrusfrance had retrained as a doctor, and he applied to join the RAMC rather than rejoin the infantry, would you be sneering at him for that too?
Having just looked into this thread again, it is really disappointing to see some of the elitist attitudes here. I can well understand that the military is just not that stretched to consider the option at the moment. However, some of the claims that no civilian pilot could put a Defender into a steep turn, or that an ATPL would not last a week on EFT, seem designed to insult rather than add anything constructive. It is not the sort of attitude that I remember from the RN.
Anyway, that's all I have to say. My last post and goodbye!
If cirrusfrance had retrained as a doctor, and he applied to join the RAMC rather than rejoin the infantry, would you be sneering at him for that too?
Having just looked into this thread again, it is really disappointing to see some of the elitist attitudes here. I can well understand that the military is just not that stretched to consider the option at the moment. However, some of the claims that no civilian pilot could put a Defender into a steep turn, or that an ATPL would not last a week on EFT, seem designed to insult rather than add anything constructive. It is not the sort of attitude that I remember from the RN.
Anyway, that's all I have to say. My last post and goodbye!
Red On, Green On
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If cirrusfrance had retrained as a doctor, and he applied to join the RAMC rather than rejoin the infantry, would you be sneering at him for that too?
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I don't think that was the argument that Alex was making. At least, not the way I read it. He was answering a post where somebody suggested that I just rejoin my old unit. I think he was trying to point out that both of us would quite naturally wish to volunteer the new skills we have acquired, and ask if they would be any use to our former units (which is what I first did). Would you really expect (say) a former soldier who was re-enlisting to simply not mention that, by the way, he had in the meantime qualified as a doctor?
FWIW, and as one would expect from the army, the AAC did indeed examine my application with care and imagination, and considered how best to take advantage of it. Luckily there are plenty of energetic people in the services (usually the ones who rise to the top) who do think outside the block, and who try to take advantage of opportunities rather than invent obstacles to protect the status-quo and avoid actually doing anything. However, they decided in the end that they had no structure in place to take on a single volunteer of my age and background - which I fully understand. There was no bragging from them that "oh you wouldn't last a week on EFT".
FWIW, and as one would expect from the army, the AAC did indeed examine my application with care and imagination, and considered how best to take advantage of it. Luckily there are plenty of energetic people in the services (usually the ones who rise to the top) who do think outside the block, and who try to take advantage of opportunities rather than invent obstacles to protect the status-quo and avoid actually doing anything. However, they decided in the end that they had no structure in place to take on a single volunteer of my age and background - which I fully understand. There was no bragging from them that "oh you wouldn't last a week on EFT".
Red On, Green On
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The real issue, of course, is not so much the comparability of civilian qualifications with Service qualifications, but the capping of the entry age for aircrew officers (24 for the RAF, 26 for the RN).
I think that the RAAF and the RNZAF have much higher entry age limits; is this true?
I think that the RAAF and the RNZAF have much higher entry age limits; is this true?
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"The real issue, of course, is not so much the comparability of civilian qualifications with Service qualifications, but the capping of the entry age for aircrew officers (24 for the RAF, 26 for the RN)."
Add to that there are queues of guys who DO meet the age criteria etc trying to get into every cockpit seat imaginable why on earth would the Military make exceptions based on what Alex and cirrus may or may not bring to the party
Add to that there are queues of guys who DO meet the age criteria etc trying to get into every cockpit seat imaginable why on earth would the Military make exceptions based on what Alex and cirrus may or may not bring to the party
Okay I think we have established that fact, they simply asked a question, I really dont see the need to continue kicking them when already down. Many of us civilian Pilots are probably very naive with regard military flying but it would be nice if some of you could dampen that naive enthusiasm with a little less aggression!
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youngSW,
True. Also what I don't think has been mentioned, probably because Alex had held a commission, is that a military pilot is an officer first (AAC excepted) and a pilot second. This is an important point and although it is possibly unheard of for a doctor to be refused a commission for lack of officer qualities I have heard of a nurse who was rejected.
These factors, together with the unproven nature of Alex's abilities beyond twin props (tri?) and his undoubted age will all tell against similar civil-military cross over.
While EFT and BFT have been mentioned the OCU has not. While a civilian pilot may be a perfectly capable stick he is expected to be at a certain standard when presenting at the OCU. I don't mean ability to fly but of service knowledge and all that gpoes with it.
We had a current RN schoolie, who was working in a lightblue capacity, who was encouraged to cross over and become a navigator. I believe the cross over was a formality and he returned in short order as a student. It still took him 2 years to reach a sqn.
True. Also what I don't think has been mentioned, probably because Alex had held a commission, is that a military pilot is an officer first (AAC excepted) and a pilot second. This is an important point and although it is possibly unheard of for a doctor to be refused a commission for lack of officer qualities I have heard of a nurse who was rejected.
These factors, together with the unproven nature of Alex's abilities beyond twin props (tri?) and his undoubted age will all tell against similar civil-military cross over.
While EFT and BFT have been mentioned the OCU has not. While a civilian pilot may be a perfectly capable stick he is expected to be at a certain standard when presenting at the OCU. I don't mean ability to fly but of service knowledge and all that gpoes with it.
We had a current RN schoolie, who was working in a lightblue capacity, who was encouraged to cross over and become a navigator. I believe the cross over was a formality and he returned in short order as a student. It still took him 2 years to reach a sqn.
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"We had a current RN schoolie, who was working in a lightblue capacity, who was encouraged to cross over and become a navigator. I believe the cross over was a formality and he returned in short order as a student. It still took him 2 years to reach a sqn."
Probably struggled to find it
Probably struggled to find it
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Incidentally, on a more serious note, if my quals are useless to the military, does anybody know of any civvy or quango operators in the sandpit looking for pilots? I saw an ad in FI a while back for DC3 pilots, but not rated on them. There must be some other civvy jobs out there?
Moz Mostert
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Norse Air
www.norseair.co.za
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ex-mil looking for decent ppl training
Gents,
Can anyone assist?
Have managed to find time and wonga to eventually do my PPL, however, very aware that there are more cowboys out there than a South London list of plumbers.
Any advice, recommendations?
Can anyone assist?
Have managed to find time and wonga to eventually do my PPL, however, very aware that there are more cowboys out there than a South London list of plumbers.
Any advice, recommendations?
Red On, Green On
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If you are current/former UK military then get along to an RAF flying club.
RAF Flying Clubs' Association (RAFFCA) - Contacts
RAF Flying Clubs' Association (RAFFCA) - Contacts
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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I can only echo what AA said - RAF Flying clubs will provide you with cheap rates, minimum flying needed to pass, and instruction that is focussed on getting you through a test whilst bearing in mind your past flying experience. I used Cosford and they were utterly helpful, professional, and were not interested in extracting more money from me than I absolutely had to spend.
Pick one that is geographically convenient for you and you shouldn't go wrong!
Pick one that is geographically convenient for you and you shouldn't go wrong!
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Alex HH the thread starter packed up and gone home
seems we have scared him away with the usual c*rappy deterioration of the thread.
I tried to send him a name of someone who is in a position to assist but he has not answered. Perhaps he isn't genuine or perhaps not actually interested in flying Military aircraft after all.
Chaps on this forum who believe Military Piloting is more difficult than civilian take one step forward if you have tried both. Yes I thought so.
I tried to send him a name of someone who is in a position to assist but he has not answered. Perhaps he isn't genuine or perhaps not actually interested in flying Military aircraft after all.
Chaps on this forum who believe Military Piloting is more difficult than civilian take one step forward if you have tried both. Yes I thought so.
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As someone who has tried both and still does civil perhaps I can answer Hook Hacker.
In my field rotary I would say that military is more difficult and demanding. This is because military is so varied while civil - in my case N Sea is routine by design and nature. The oil companies don't want their pax placed in dangerous situations.
The only time that civil becomes demanding is when the weather is poor but it still is far easier than creeping up a cloudy mountainside to rescue an injured climber.
The other thing I have noticed is the wild variation in ability of civil co-pilots - some are excellent, the majority as you would expect are average but some are never going to progress to command. This didn't happen in the military as the below average never made it to the LHS (rotary). This is because during upturns, causing shortages, the companies will not be as selective as during downturns when they can pick and choose.
AP
In my field rotary I would say that military is more difficult and demanding. This is because military is so varied while civil - in my case N Sea is routine by design and nature. The oil companies don't want their pax placed in dangerous situations.
The only time that civil becomes demanding is when the weather is poor but it still is far easier than creeping up a cloudy mountainside to rescue an injured climber.
The other thing I have noticed is the wild variation in ability of civil co-pilots - some are excellent, the majority as you would expect are average but some are never going to progress to command. This didn't happen in the military as the below average never made it to the LHS (rotary). This is because during upturns, causing shortages, the companies will not be as selective as during downturns when they can pick and choose.
AP
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Ally, that was in the old days
Ally old boy,
if you think the driver airframes flying in the Uk Mil today would all have passed and been retained 20 years ago you are very wrong. Standards have not so much slipped as the bar has has been lowered severly. Which is a good thing.
Nowadays you do not need to be Harrier material to fly a C130; re-training is common place. For example failed Rotary pilots now go onto C130 or VC10, which is a good use of of resources. Although the large fixed wing community do not admit to such of course.
But one skill set harder than the other? No, just different. Not all are cut out for the Boll**ks freely dished out in the MIlitary, and not all Military can survuive without it! But flying is flying.
Still don't know where Alex HH went though! He was clearly Civvy only material as he shot off at the first sight of heat, albeit in a PPrune forum!
if you think the driver airframes flying in the Uk Mil today would all have passed and been retained 20 years ago you are very wrong. Standards have not so much slipped as the bar has has been lowered severly. Which is a good thing.
Nowadays you do not need to be Harrier material to fly a C130; re-training is common place. For example failed Rotary pilots now go onto C130 or VC10, which is a good use of of resources. Although the large fixed wing community do not admit to such of course.
But one skill set harder than the other? No, just different. Not all are cut out for the Boll**ks freely dished out in the MIlitary, and not all Military can survuive without it! But flying is flying.
Still don't know where Alex HH went though! He was clearly Civvy only material as he shot off at the first sight of heat, albeit in a PPrune forum!
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Having been out of the military for 10 years and having served in all 14 years I think we are all missing the point. Who cares which tradesman is more competant.
Who would want to be reemployed by the state. Not I , not with medium payscales. Low morale as a result of being overworked and away from family for extended periods of time. Government leaning on the one manager who tells the truth about 2 wars sapping morale.
Me now, Private employer , good pay, home all year and 170 days off.
A fair employer with good pilots council. The only bummer is the economy and oil prices
Happy with my choice.
Who would want to be reemployed by the state. Not I , not with medium payscales. Low morale as a result of being overworked and away from family for extended periods of time. Government leaning on the one manager who tells the truth about 2 wars sapping morale.
Me now, Private employer , good pay, home all year and 170 days off.
A fair employer with good pilots council. The only bummer is the economy and oil prices
Happy with my choice.
