Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
They missed out on lunch, then.
Wandering around Fiji I was shown a rock that had convenient blood channels in it where criminals where executed and them scoffed.
Apparently it was the custom until the British spoiled it in the late 19th century.
Wandering around Fiji I was shown a rock that had convenient blood channels in it where criminals where executed and them scoffed.
Apparently it was the custom until the British spoiled it in the late 19th century.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Keeffro (your #8556);
Checking back, put up the link you gave me [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Varsity]. Like most people, I'd heard about "Market Garden" (and we'd all been to see the film "A Bridge Too Far") and knew about the heroic failure at Arnhem, but "Operation Varsity" was a new one on me.
Wiki tells me:
It seems that Dennis's war may not have been long - but it was a hot one ! And a successful one too, for it enabled the Allies to get across the Rhine "in one bound", as it were, and so bring the war in Europe to an end little more than a month later.
Reading Wiki's account, I was horrified to hear that, unlike the Daks, the Curtis C-46 Commando tugs (sort of big fat Dakotas) did not have self-sealing tanks, which made S&L at 1,500 ft in daylight over defences more than a little hazardous !
5,000 miles away, I'd other things on my mind at the time: and was rather excited (and nervous !), as I'd just been told that they were giving me my first (and last) very own tiny Command in the RAF.
Danny.
Checking back, put up the link you gave me [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Varsity]. Like most people, I'd heard about "Market Garden" (and we'd all been to see the film "A Bridge Too Far") and knew about the heroic failure at Arnhem, but "Operation Varsity" was a new one on me.
Wiki tells me:
... Involving more than 16,000 paratroopers and several thousand aircraft, it was the largest airborne operation in history to be conducted on a single day and in one location...
Reading Wiki's account, I was horrified to hear that, unlike the Daks, the Curtis C-46 Commando tugs (sort of big fat Dakotas) did not have self-sealing tanks, which made S&L at 1,500 ft in daylight over defences more than a little hazardous !
5,000 miles away, I'd other things on my mind at the time: and was rather excited (and nervous !), as I'd just been told that they were giving me my first (and last) very own tiny Command in the RAF.
Danny.
Delighted to see you back at the controls, Danny, and I add my best wishes to those already expressed 
.
It is indeed surprising how, given its scale, Operation Varsity appears to have slipped in under the radar of public awareness - though you at least have the excuse that you were otherwise engaged at the time.
By the way, his son told me that, among Dennis's ex-RAF pals, his nickname was "Danny", and that this was a nickname that several of his pals shared. Was this a bit of a running gag, like "Bruce" in the Monty Python universe? His son thought it might be a reference to Dan Dare, but Wikipedia tells me that Dan Dare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Dare wasn't written about till 1950 (and that the eponym himself wasn't born till 1967!). And dare I even ask if you yourself are a Danny by birth or by sobriquet?
.It is indeed surprising how, given its scale, Operation Varsity appears to have slipped in under the radar of public awareness - though you at least have the excuse that you were otherwise engaged at the time.
By the way, his son told me that, among Dennis's ex-RAF pals, his nickname was "Danny", and that this was a nickname that several of his pals shared. Was this a bit of a running gag, like "Bruce" in the Monty Python universe? His son thought it might be a reference to Dan Dare, but Wikipedia tells me that Dan Dare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Dare wasn't written about till 1950 (and that the eponym himself wasn't born till 1967!). And dare I even ask if you yourself are a Danny by birth or by sobriquet?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Keeffro,
Curiously, my real name is "Dennis", but I am not "Danny" on that account. I have a very Irish sounding surname, and in the RAF all Irishmen are variously "Mick", "Paddy", "Spud" or in my case "Danny" (from ♫"Danny-boy"♫).
To the very few who have been in email contact, please note that my first Christian name is used there - and it is not "Dennis".
On PPRuNe you will, of course, only use "Danny" or "Danny42C"
Cheers, Danny.
Curiously, my real name is "Dennis", but I am not "Danny" on that account. I have a very Irish sounding surname, and in the RAF all Irishmen are variously "Mick", "Paddy", "Spud" or in my case "Danny" (from ♫"Danny-boy"♫).
To the very few who have been in email contact, please note that my first Christian name is used there - and it is not "Dennis".
On PPRuNe you will, of course, only use "Danny" or "Danny42C"
Cheers, Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 12th May 2016 at 18:39. Reason: Tidy up
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: South Africa
Age: 87
Posts: 1,329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dan Dare,
I can still remember the first page of the first copy of the Eagle comic that I bought.
I wish I had kept it.
It included an invitation to join The Eagle Club, with prizes for the 1st dozen or so joiners from each part of the country.
For the NE of England the prize was a trip to the Headingly Test Match.
My application, complete with 1/- postal order, went into the mail on the same day.
My membership number was 100,008.
I didn't get to Headingly.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Old comrades
On one effort, over a Dodecanese airfield, our Flight Commander, Squadron Leader Barry Atkinson, claimed to have aimed his aircraft and fired his guns at a large party of soldiers, headed by an officer who, Barry said, was wearing an Iron Cross, and who pointed with a revolver at the aircraft before being blown apart (that's how low we used to fly on our raids). Such was the amazing intelligence network of the Germans, that not very long afterwards, we heard that a rebuttal had been made by them, and published in English newspapers, that there was no German officer on the airfield at that date who was entitled to wear the Iron Cross!
During the same raid, my cockpit canopy was struck on the right side by a bullet, or a piece of shrapnel, that tore a large hole in the perspex, and struck my right arm with great force - not enough to break the skin, but sufficient to bruise my arm and make it feel sore for some days. On landing, we found damage also to the starboard wing, probably caused by shrapnel from a bomb burst on the airfield.
Another "false alarm" for me was caused while attacking enemy shipping in the same area, when I dived down on an armed vessel, guns blazing, and staring with awe at the tracer bullets coming towards me, and suddenly found that my "ring-sight" - a reflected circle with target centre seen above the firing button - had disappeared. At the same time, I felt an intense burning sensation on my right thigh, just above the knee. (I was wearing khaki shorts and shirt). A couple of seconds was enough for me to find that I had not been struck by enemy bullets, but was suffering from the effects of a very hot electric bulb, that had dropped out of the bottom of the ringsight reflector, and was resting uncomfortably at the end of its short piece of flex onto my leg.
One not-so-clever incident was nearly serious for me and my observer. We were on one of those long return trips across the Med, described above, and escorting a Yankee squadron flying North American "Mitchell" light bombers (B25's). We had attacked an island airfield, north of Crete, with the Mitchells providing the bombing, and we the fighter escort. Alleviating the never-ending flight over the wave-tops (twenty to fifty feet, as usual) I closed in on the Mitchell I was escorting, and did some formation work.
A crewman appeared in a mid-fuselage gun-window, and beckoned me. Showing off somewhat, I got closer, tucking my right wing in behind the left wing of the bigger aircraft. Beaming, the crewman again beckoned me, appearing quite friendly. I flew in as close as I dared, only a few feet away. The crewmans head disappeared temporarily, and then suddenly reappeared, and he hurled at me a long metal biscuit tin, which I had time to recognise as one of the American issue.
I took violent evasive action as I saw the tin whistle past my starboard propellor. What it might have done to my engine and the aircraft, with consequent effects to me and Bob, made me shudder. And that was from one of our Allies!
Whilst based at the airfield near Benghazi, I was recommended for a Commission. I was then a Flight Sergeant, nearly a year on the Squadron, and very seasoned. On 27th October 1943, wearing my cleanest khaki, shoes polished, stepping carefully over the worst of the claggy puddles caused the previous night by an unusual rainstorm, I made my way to the desert caravan Headquarters of the Air Officer Commanding 201 Group. I had a very pleasant interview with him (name entirely unknown to me after this long time) and went away, confident that I had "put up a good show".
At this time, Bob Pritchard and I had spent well over 240 hours on operational flights, and were looking forward to a rest. We anticipated going home to England, and enjoying some leave before starting a second tour of operations. Bob had been commissioned some months before, while we were at Misurata, and was then a Pilot Officer.
During the same raid, my cockpit canopy was struck on the right side by a bullet, or a piece of shrapnel, that tore a large hole in the perspex, and struck my right arm with great force - not enough to break the skin, but sufficient to bruise my arm and make it feel sore for some days. On landing, we found damage also to the starboard wing, probably caused by shrapnel from a bomb burst on the airfield.
Another "false alarm" for me was caused while attacking enemy shipping in the same area, when I dived down on an armed vessel, guns blazing, and staring with awe at the tracer bullets coming towards me, and suddenly found that my "ring-sight" - a reflected circle with target centre seen above the firing button - had disappeared. At the same time, I felt an intense burning sensation on my right thigh, just above the knee. (I was wearing khaki shorts and shirt). A couple of seconds was enough for me to find that I had not been struck by enemy bullets, but was suffering from the effects of a very hot electric bulb, that had dropped out of the bottom of the ringsight reflector, and was resting uncomfortably at the end of its short piece of flex onto my leg.
One not-so-clever incident was nearly serious for me and my observer. We were on one of those long return trips across the Med, described above, and escorting a Yankee squadron flying North American "Mitchell" light bombers (B25's). We had attacked an island airfield, north of Crete, with the Mitchells providing the bombing, and we the fighter escort. Alleviating the never-ending flight over the wave-tops (twenty to fifty feet, as usual) I closed in on the Mitchell I was escorting, and did some formation work.
A crewman appeared in a mid-fuselage gun-window, and beckoned me. Showing off somewhat, I got closer, tucking my right wing in behind the left wing of the bigger aircraft. Beaming, the crewman again beckoned me, appearing quite friendly. I flew in as close as I dared, only a few feet away. The crewmans head disappeared temporarily, and then suddenly reappeared, and he hurled at me a long metal biscuit tin, which I had time to recognise as one of the American issue.
I took violent evasive action as I saw the tin whistle past my starboard propellor. What it might have done to my engine and the aircraft, with consequent effects to me and Bob, made me shudder. And that was from one of our Allies!
Whilst based at the airfield near Benghazi, I was recommended for a Commission. I was then a Flight Sergeant, nearly a year on the Squadron, and very seasoned. On 27th October 1943, wearing my cleanest khaki, shoes polished, stepping carefully over the worst of the claggy puddles caused the previous night by an unusual rainstorm, I made my way to the desert caravan Headquarters of the Air Officer Commanding 201 Group. I had a very pleasant interview with him (name entirely unknown to me after this long time) and went away, confident that I had "put up a good show".
At this time, Bob Pritchard and I had spent well over 240 hours on operational flights, and were looking forward to a rest. We anticipated going home to England, and enjoying some leave before starting a second tour of operations. Bob had been commissioned some months before, while we were at Misurata, and was then a Pilot Officer.
I made my way to the desert caravan Headquarters of the Air Officer Commanding 201 Group. I had a very pleasant interview with him (name entirely unknown to me after this long time) and went away, confident that I had "put up a good show". - Walter603
And here he is - perhaps it's not a total surprise that you could not recall his name, but you certainly seem to have "put up a good show"!
T A Langford-Sainsbury_P
Jack
And here he is - perhaps it's not a total surprise that you could not recall his name, but you certainly seem to have "put up a good show"!
T A Langford-Sainsbury_P
Jack
Guest
Posts: n/a
Walter,
Exactly the same happened to me one day. I was bumping along in the back of a canvas tilt 30-cwt on some Burmese bullock track, back open of course, but in this case it was my left thigh (in shorts and shirt, like you ).
A hairy great hornet was sucked in by the turbulence, must've been annoyed by the spin-drier experience he'd just had, landed on my thigh and let me have it ! Hellish at the time - there is a tiny red mark there to this day.
I've always found Americans to be the most generous of cousins, but this chap had clearly been out in the sun too long ! I should have pushed my wingtip into his gun-port and squashed the blighter. We had an ATC-er in RAFG in the '60s who had a wooden leg (how was he still in - nobody knew). Had been in the nose of a Boston (I think), when another member of the formation accidentally rammed through the perspex; he lost his leg when the tip hit him. Didn't cramp his style; he had 14 children and occupied two OMQs ! And no, I haven't been drinking, will supply name if anyone PMs me. Must be dead by now - everybody I knew is !
Me, too, with my chap. The 'buzz' was that the criteria were: (a) does he drop his aitches ? and (b) can he use a knife and fork ? I always found that my rare encounters with "stars" were not unpleasant (even when in the nature of: "Cap and gloves on - no chair/coffee or bikky"). It is the "middle management" you had to look out for !
So you managed to get your "crown". Mine didn't come through for six months - in fact my Commission beat it to it - but my commissioning date was a fortnight after the "crown" was due. Never did get the money !
Wonderful stuff, Walter. More ! More !
Danny.
...... I felt an intense burning sensation on my right thigh, just above the knee. (I was wearing khaki shorts and shirt)...
A hairy great hornet was sucked in by the turbulence, must've been annoyed by the spin-drier experience he'd just had, landed on my thigh and let me have it ! Hellish at the time - there is a tiny red mark there to this day.
...And that was from one of our Allies!...
...I had a very pleasant interview with him...
So you managed to get your "crown". Mine didn't come through for six months - in fact my Commission beat it to it - but my commissioning date was a fortnight after the "crown" was due. Never did get the money !
Wonderful stuff, Walter. More ! More !
Danny.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,811
Received 136 Likes
on
64 Posts
I continue to sit and read in awe ... thanks again, gentlemen.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Walter (your #8592),
This was a common practice of "Lord Haw-Haw", of infamous memory on the radio during the war years ("Jairmany calling.....!") They would suddenly get hold of some snippet of events not generally known in wartime Britain, and put it on air to convince the gullible that Nazi Intelligence was all-knowing, and thus spread Alarm and Despondency.
His name was William Joyce, and he was captured and (quite properly) hanged for treason after the war. Wiki tells me:
The colossal irony (which nobody was aware of at the time, or for 50 years after) was that our Bletchley Park had broken into the German "Enigma" code - to the extent that sometimes Churchill had on his desk transcripts of Hitler's orders to one of his Generals in the field before they had reached the General himself !
And (I think) - perhaps Union Jack can confirm - that Navy Intelligence were for some time receiving daily Position Reports from U-boats on station, which helped the anti-submarine war no end !
Danny.
...Such was the amazing intelligence network of the Germans, that not very long afterwards, we heard that a rebuttal had been made by them, and published in English newspapers, that there was no German officer on the airfield at that date who was entitled to wear the Iron Cross!...
His name was William Joyce, and he was captured and (quite properly) hanged for treason after the war. Wiki tells me:
...Joyce's defence team, appointed by the court, argued that, as an American citizen and naturalised German, Joyce could not be convicted of treason against the British Crown. However, the prosecution successfully argued that, since he had lied about his nationality to obtain a British passport and voted in Britain, Joyce owed allegiance to the king...
And (I think) - perhaps Union Jack can confirm - that Navy Intelligence were for some time receiving daily Position Reports from U-boats on station, which helped the anti-submarine war no end !
Danny.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀
Posts: 1,994
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DFCP, see B-Dienst here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-Dienst
The problem with the German system was that it was so fragmented that by the time that any any information gathered was passed on to an operational unit, 80% of the time it was too late.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-Dienst
The problem with the German system was that it was so fragmented that by the time that any any information gathered was passed on to an operational unit, 80% of the time it was too late.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Almae Matres
JENKINS (your #8599),
Thanks for the head-up ! Got it on Google (skinflint !).
So: Sqdn Ldr Owen Parry, DFC (RIP). Another good one gone ! (seek not for whom the bell tolls..)
Didn't come into contact with 11 Sqdn, but had been posted out of Assam back to 8 Sqdn in the Arakan before the big Jap offensive. His "airfield on the Imphal Plain" might be Palel. Owen could have been at Blackpool Grammar at the same time as Reg Levy, whom we know well on this Thread; we may have been on the opposite sides of a scrum ! Yes, I was at "Holy Joe's", as you rightly surmise. "Joe's Jailhouse" - hadn't heard that one before, but not a bad description - except that our poor parents had to pay through the nose for it !
Danny.
Thanks for the head-up ! Got it on Google (skinflint !).
So: Sqdn Ldr Owen Parry, DFC (RIP). Another good one gone ! (seek not for whom the bell tolls..)
Didn't come into contact with 11 Sqdn, but had been posted out of Assam back to 8 Sqdn in the Arakan before the big Jap offensive. His "airfield on the Imphal Plain" might be Palel. Owen could have been at Blackpool Grammar at the same time as Reg Levy, whom we know well on this Thread; we may have been on the opposite sides of a scrum ! Yes, I was at "Holy Joe's", as you rightly surmise. "Joe's Jailhouse" - hadn't heard that one before, but not a bad description - except that our poor parents had to pay through the nose for it !
Danny.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Recessional ?
I feel that this Thread (which has surely been one of the best and most enjoyable on all PPRuNe Forums) is fading away. We can no longer expect any more WWII veterans to join us, and the store of memories from their friends and families, valuable and welcome as it is, must necessarily be limited.
We should be grateful to Cliff Leach [RIP], (who opened it eight years ago), the many contributors since (living and dead), and not forgetting our Moderators, who have allowed us to ramble all over the place on and off Thread, secure in the knowledge that we always come back.
I propose that we keep the Thread alive, but let it fade away. And perhaps one of our "Younger (and not so young) Tigers" will open up with something like "Gaining an RAF Flying Brevet" - it should go like hot cakes.
It's your history now, chaps - we're bowing out.
Danny42C.
EDIT: And Tigresses !
We should be grateful to Cliff Leach [RIP], (who opened it eight years ago), the many contributors since (living and dead), and not forgetting our Moderators, who have allowed us to ramble all over the place on and off Thread, secure in the knowledge that we always come back.
I propose that we keep the Thread alive, but let it fade away. And perhaps one of our "Younger (and not so young) Tigers" will open up with something like "Gaining an RAF Flying Brevet" - it should go like hot cakes.
It's your history now, chaps - we're bowing out.
Danny42C.
EDIT: And Tigresses !
Last edited by Danny42C; 24th May 2016 at 10:25. Reason: Oh, dear ! - failing memory.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,811
Received 136 Likes
on
64 Posts
OH NOOOOOO!!!
But I completely understand your perspective, Danny ...
... so are you advocating a NEW Thread for more modern stuff? Things with jet engines etc?
But I completely understand your perspective, Danny ...
... so are you advocating a NEW Thread for more modern stuff? Things with jet engines etc?
Guest
Posts: n/a
MPN11,
A NEW Thread for more modern stuff ? - Yes, indeed !
We old-timers just have to accept the fact that we've had our day. It was a good day, but now it's nearly over.
Of course, I'm not proposing the old Thread be closed, merely that it be allowed to fade away, as old soldiers must. (In any case, it's doing that already !)
Danny.
A NEW Thread for more modern stuff ? - Yes, indeed !
We old-timers just have to accept the fact that we've had our day. It was a good day, but now it's nearly over.
Of course, I'm not proposing the old Thread be closed, merely that it be allowed to fade away, as old soldiers must. (In any case, it's doing that already !)
Danny.