Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Jack,
Thank you for a brilliant piece of research ! Sadly I note that divorce is also in the record. What tales Hardie could have told ! - From Cliff (p.117 #2339):
Cliff (p.5 #83) states that he started flying at Darr Field in 8/'43, Hardie would be with him, they would graduate about 2/44, Hardie would have put up the gold bars then, so as he changed them for silver (1st. Lieut) in 12/44, it would seem that they had a (wartime) time promotion much the same as ours (6 mos P/O to F/O, 18 mos F/O to F/L). Don't know how long he would have to wait for Captain (two silver bars).
Interesting ! Danny.
Thank you for a brilliant piece of research ! Sadly I note that divorce is also in the record. What tales Hardie could have told ! - From Cliff (p.117 #2339):
...On graduation he became a 'loo tenant'. He delivered all types of aircraft, including Flying Fortresses all over the world...
Interesting ! Danny.
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An Even Older Oldest Inhabitant !
pulse1,
No shame involved at all, my dear sir. So Frank is 97 now ! And I'm displaced from my commanding position as the Oldest Inhabitant, and must reluctantly give up the best chair nearest the fire ! (and the free beer).
Ah well - Age Before Beauty !
Danny.
PS: I've asked the BBC to account for the weird goings-on amid the heiroglyphics; they have acknowledged my email and I now wait for a reply. I have a suspicion that I might have to wait for quite some time....D.
...In fact he will be 98 this Summer and my shame knows no bounds...
Ah well - Age Before Beauty !
Danny.
PS: I've asked the BBC to account for the weird goings-on amid the heiroglyphics; they have acknowledged my email and I now wait for a reply. I have a suspicion that I might have to wait for quite some time....D.
pulse1, please let Frank know how much it is appreciated that through you his story is being told on this thread. He has a rapt audience who are united in their appreciation of the telling of it, not in a vicarious way but rather in appreciation of how much is owed to him and all who served on our behalf in the maelstrom that was WWII.
As you have already indicated, there was much that troubled and much that would rather have been forgotten if it could be, but that is the reality of war, rather than in its fictional or dramatic representation, and needs to be learned by succeeding generations. There is no such thing as a good war, but there are things that are worse than war, and sometimes war is the lesser of the two evils. WWII was such a war, I think, and the winning of it meant freedom for my generation and that of our children and their children. So thank you Frank, now elevated to Senior Pilot in this Crewroom in the Cloud by its previous incumbent. I am sure though that there is plenty of room for both by the fire which blazes perpetually without ever seeming to need topping up from the scuttle.
Union Jack, excellent sleuthing in finding promotion, marriage, and in-memoriam for Cliff's friend Hardie! What a wonder the internet is, when a local paper from nearly 70 years ago can appear to us as on the day it was published. I wonder if Mrs Albrecht is still with us? Interesting that Hardie's in-memorium has him as ex-USAF, but as it says he served until 1946 surely it would still have been the USAAF?
As you have already indicated, there was much that troubled and much that would rather have been forgotten if it could be, but that is the reality of war, rather than in its fictional or dramatic representation, and needs to be learned by succeeding generations. There is no such thing as a good war, but there are things that are worse than war, and sometimes war is the lesser of the two evils. WWII was such a war, I think, and the winning of it meant freedom for my generation and that of our children and their children. So thank you Frank, now elevated to Senior Pilot in this Crewroom in the Cloud by its previous incumbent. I am sure though that there is plenty of room for both by the fire which blazes perpetually without ever seeming to need topping up from the scuttle.
Union Jack, excellent sleuthing in finding promotion, marriage, and in-memoriam for Cliff's friend Hardie! What a wonder the internet is, when a local paper from nearly 70 years ago can appear to us as on the day it was published. I wonder if Mrs Albrecht is still with us? Interesting that Hardie's in-memorium has him as ex-USAF, but as it says he served until 1946 surely it would still have been the USAAF?
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Old Comrades
It was about end of May or beginning of June, I remember, and wonderful weather. Elmer's Tune" was a very popular song at the time, and I can't hear it now without remembering the balmy summer days and the overseas leave that passed all too quickly.
One lasting memory I shall never forget was when I was on my way to say goodbye to my aunt and uncle. Striding along the pavement, I saw a cheeky-faced little girl about 13 years old, with bright eyes and ready smile, calling out something to me that I thought was probably impertinent. I didn't reply but continued on to my relatives. That little girl became my first date on arrival home in 1945, and we enjoyed 67+ years of marriage until she died 14 months ago.
We drew our khaki drill shirts, shorts, etc. from stores, and all the other paraphernalia, such as pith helmets. Very shortly we found ourselves at RAF Padgate, a dispatch centre near Manchester, and there we met up with many of our former classmates from training schools. I was particularly pleased to find myself with pilot Reuben Giles, and his observer Len Coulstock, with whom I had become quite a close friend whilst at Church Fenton. A number of Canadian aircrew were also with us at Padgate. I remember them best for their inveterate gambling. They'd play poker all night, whenever the opportunity presented itself.
A few days were spent at RAF Padgate before we were sent northwards by train late one night, and we arrived early the following morning at Greenock, a large port in Scotland, where we embarked immediately on the Steamship "Ranpura". We sailed out of the Clyde and westwards into the Atlantic, in a large convoy of supply ships escorted by the Royal Navy and patrolling Sunderland aircraft.
Although we took everything in our stride without too much thought in those days, I know from hindsight that the ship was dreadfully overcrowded. There were troops everywhere. By "troops" I mean Servicemen of every description. Many slept on the Mess decks, having to stow their kit away by day, and hanging their hammocks over the meal tables late at night after all meals had finished. As NCO aircrew, we were allotted quarters formerly reserved for ship's crew members. Over the door of the cabin I shared with 17 other Sergeants, there was a sign, "12 Lascar Seamen" !
I think we sailed about three-quarters of the way across the Atlantic, south-westwards towards America, before turning south-east and heading to Africa. The journey was five weeks, and we took some turns at spotting for enemy aircraft. On approaching Freetown, we were again escorted by Sunderland aircraft until docking at this equatorial port in Sierra Leone. We stayed here only overnight, and were off next morning to Lagos, in Nigeria, where we disembarked and slept ashore.
The following day we embarked again in a small Norwegian coastal ship, and spent three days retracing our journey back towards Freetown, but stopping at Takoradi, in what was then called the Gold Coast, and is now Ghana.
One lasting memory I shall never forget was when I was on my way to say goodbye to my aunt and uncle. Striding along the pavement, I saw a cheeky-faced little girl about 13 years old, with bright eyes and ready smile, calling out something to me that I thought was probably impertinent. I didn't reply but continued on to my relatives. That little girl became my first date on arrival home in 1945, and we enjoyed 67+ years of marriage until she died 14 months ago.
We drew our khaki drill shirts, shorts, etc. from stores, and all the other paraphernalia, such as pith helmets. Very shortly we found ourselves at RAF Padgate, a dispatch centre near Manchester, and there we met up with many of our former classmates from training schools. I was particularly pleased to find myself with pilot Reuben Giles, and his observer Len Coulstock, with whom I had become quite a close friend whilst at Church Fenton. A number of Canadian aircrew were also with us at Padgate. I remember them best for their inveterate gambling. They'd play poker all night, whenever the opportunity presented itself.
A few days were spent at RAF Padgate before we were sent northwards by train late one night, and we arrived early the following morning at Greenock, a large port in Scotland, where we embarked immediately on the Steamship "Ranpura". We sailed out of the Clyde and westwards into the Atlantic, in a large convoy of supply ships escorted by the Royal Navy and patrolling Sunderland aircraft.
Although we took everything in our stride without too much thought in those days, I know from hindsight that the ship was dreadfully overcrowded. There were troops everywhere. By "troops" I mean Servicemen of every description. Many slept on the Mess decks, having to stow their kit away by day, and hanging their hammocks over the meal tables late at night after all meals had finished. As NCO aircrew, we were allotted quarters formerly reserved for ship's crew members. Over the door of the cabin I shared with 17 other Sergeants, there was a sign, "12 Lascar Seamen" !
I think we sailed about three-quarters of the way across the Atlantic, south-westwards towards America, before turning south-east and heading to Africa. The journey was five weeks, and we took some turns at spotting for enemy aircraft. On approaching Freetown, we were again escorted by Sunderland aircraft until docking at this equatorial port in Sierra Leone. We stayed here only overnight, and were off next morning to Lagos, in Nigeria, where we disembarked and slept ashore.
The following day we embarked again in a small Norwegian coastal ship, and spent three days retracing our journey back towards Freetown, but stopping at Takoradi, in what was then called the Gold Coast, and is now Ghana.
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troopship romance
The mention of the troopship down the Atlantic is similar to that of my father Harold Pettinger. He was a 2nd lieutenant in the Yorks and Lancs regiment, aged 20, en route to Egypt. He was on a White Star line ship to Capetown, packed with troops, but also with some civilians. While wandering down the Atlantic for 6 weeks, my father got to know young girl called Dorothy fleeing London bombing to go to relatives in Rhodesia. They spent 3 days in Capetown before she caught her train to Bulowayo, and my father changed ships for Egypt, where he took part in the 1st Tobruk siege ( winning the MC) and later in Burma with the Chindits. Dorothy and my father corresponded right through the war, but after the war she married an RAF pilot, and stayed in Africa, while my father went back to London and his parents, marrying my mother a few years later.
The twist to this story is: my mother having died some 20 years ago, I took my father ( then 90) to a memorial service at Westminster Abbey. Seeing his medals, the taxi drivers would not take a fare from us, and I wrote to The Times to thank them. This letter was published and seen by Dorothy, now 89, still in Zimbabwe and widowed. A year later, repatriated to the UK, she managed to get in touch, and we discovered she now lived only 10 miles from my father, and they were reunited. It was as if they had never been separated, and they were as close as its possible to be until they both died in 2013 aged 91 and 93. There are a lot more incredible coincidences involved, and a google for 'Harold Pettinger and Dorothy Crombie' will give some more details, but there are far more extra stories about them than it is possible for me to write here.
The twist to this story is: my mother having died some 20 years ago, I took my father ( then 90) to a memorial service at Westminster Abbey. Seeing his medals, the taxi drivers would not take a fare from us, and I wrote to The Times to thank them. This letter was published and seen by Dorothy, now 89, still in Zimbabwe and widowed. A year later, repatriated to the UK, she managed to get in touch, and we discovered she now lived only 10 miles from my father, and they were reunited. It was as if they had never been separated, and they were as close as its possible to be until they both died in 2013 aged 91 and 93. There are a lot more incredible coincidences involved, and a google for 'Harold Pettinger and Dorothy Crombie' will give some more details, but there are far more extra stories about them than it is possible for me to write here.
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Funny goings-on amid the Pyramids !
Good Friends,
Sorry for airing this bee in my bonnet again, but in a PS to my #8123, I wrote:
I have an (unworthy ?) suspicion that:
(a) they will simply ignore my request or
(b) wait till 2 Feb (when the 22 days in which the iplayer repeat is available is up), then simply say that they can't find it and I've been 'seeing things!'
In this case I'd like some backup. The weird sight is still on BBC iplayer. I'd be grateful if one or two of you would Google>BBC iplayer>BBC TWO Immortal Egypt with Joann Fletcher (select No.2 Chaos).
You don't have to dig into your store of Gbs: you only need to watch (say) 35 secs from 7.00 to 7.35 (the apparition lasts from 7.12 to 7.29 mins on the progamme). Then I'd have a few good witnesses ! (Don't Post in to confirm you've seen it yet - we'll see what happens !)
Once again I throw myself on the mercy of our Moderators to allow this blatant excursion from thread - just this once more Pur-leese !
Danny.
Sorry for airing this bee in my bonnet again, but in a PS to my #8123, I wrote:
This was written on 19th Jan; there has been no further response from the BBC
(a) they will simply ignore my request or
(b) wait till 2 Feb (when the 22 days in which the iplayer repeat is available is up), then simply say that they can't find it and I've been 'seeing things!'
In this case I'd like some backup. The weird sight is still on BBC iplayer. I'd be grateful if one or two of you would Google>BBC iplayer>BBC TWO Immortal Egypt with Joann Fletcher (select No.2 Chaos).
You don't have to dig into your store of Gbs: you only need to watch (say) 35 secs from 7.00 to 7.35 (the apparition lasts from 7.12 to 7.29 mins on the progamme). Then I'd have a few good witnesses ! (Don't Post in to confirm you've seen it yet - we'll see what happens !)
Once again I throw myself on the mercy of our Moderators to allow this blatant excursion from thread - just this once more Pur-leese !
Danny.
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The Open Sea.
Walter (your #8125),
Our paths seem to have crossed in so many ways. "Elmer's tune" was/is one of my favourites, too, and it fixes our time frame as 1941. I went out to the States for my flying training in the September of that year (it was on all the jukeboxes), returning to the UK in March '42, and went out to India in late October. By then they had got a Reception Centre going in Blackpool which did the preparations for overseas postings before going up to Gourock for my ship.
Like your "Ranpura", my "Stirling Castle" was dog-legged right across the Atlantic to Brazil (Bahia), then back round the Cape to Durban and Bombay. It was only on this Thread that I learned that that was to keep us away from the North African invasion traffic. But you had a cabin ! Jammy ! I was on the top of a 7-tier bunk in what had been the first-class dining saloon. So you've got as far as Takoradi now (don't know it). Pilgrim's Progress ! (of a sort).
What a lovely "boy meets girl" story. I've had 61 years with my Iris now, "and it don't seem a day too long". I can only imagine the scale of your loss, offer my profound sympathy, and hope it doesn't happen to me (the odds are in my favour, as I'm eight years older). But you never know.
Looking forward to your next instalments, when you'll be getting down to business.
Cheers, Danny
Our paths seem to have crossed in so many ways. "Elmer's tune" was/is one of my favourites, too, and it fixes our time frame as 1941. I went out to the States for my flying training in the September of that year (it was on all the jukeboxes), returning to the UK in March '42, and went out to India in late October. By then they had got a Reception Centre going in Blackpool which did the preparations for overseas postings before going up to Gourock for my ship.
Like your "Ranpura", my "Stirling Castle" was dog-legged right across the Atlantic to Brazil (Bahia), then back round the Cape to Durban and Bombay. It was only on this Thread that I learned that that was to keep us away from the North African invasion traffic. But you had a cabin ! Jammy ! I was on the top of a 7-tier bunk in what had been the first-class dining saloon. So you've got as far as Takoradi now (don't know it). Pilgrim's Progress ! (of a sort).
What a lovely "boy meets girl" story. I've had 61 years with my Iris now, "and it don't seem a day too long". I can only imagine the scale of your loss, offer my profound sympathy, and hope it doesn't happen to me (the odds are in my favour, as I'm eight years older). But you never know.
Looking forward to your next instalments, when you'll be getting down to business.
Cheers, Danny
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Pettinger93,
And then you cap it with another ! What a heart-warming reunion at the end of their lives. And what an amazing coincidence (in a war which was full of amazing coincidences). There is some good in this old World, after all.
Danny.
And then you cap it with another ! What a heart-warming reunion at the end of their lives. And what an amazing coincidence (in a war which was full of amazing coincidences). There is some good in this old World, after all.
Danny.
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romance
Their reunion was indeed a lovely thing: their joy at meeting was heart warming. Its almost a Mills and Boon story. and we had thought of writing a book about it, but it would probably seem too unbeleiveable.
To name just one of the many coincidences: Dorothy had 3 children with her RAF husband, one of whom was born on the same day and within 15 minutes of my birth, and another child was born on the same day as my sister.
Before Dorothy first got in touch we had no idea of her existence, but afterwards Dad revealed that he had kept all of their wartime correspondence that continued even while he was in the Libyan desert and the Burmese jungle.
Just to put this back on thread, Dorothy's son has been a RAF fast jet pilot, and is now a training captain pilot with a major airline. Both families are all still firm friends.
To name just one of the many coincidences: Dorothy had 3 children with her RAF husband, one of whom was born on the same day and within 15 minutes of my birth, and another child was born on the same day as my sister.
Before Dorothy first got in touch we had no idea of her existence, but afterwards Dad revealed that he had kept all of their wartime correspondence that continued even while he was in the Libyan desert and the Burmese jungle.
Just to put this back on thread, Dorothy's son has been a RAF fast jet pilot, and is now a training captain pilot with a major airline. Both families are all still firm friends.
Pettinger Obituary
Pettinger93
Your Dad's obituary appeared in the DT here:
Major Harold Pettinger - obituary - Telegraph
and The Times published an article about "The Wartime Couple Reunited after 68 Years" on 12 December 2009. Do you want me to show it here?
WT
Your Dad's obituary appeared in the DT here:
Major Harold Pettinger - obituary - Telegraph
and The Times published an article about "The Wartime Couple Reunited after 68 Years" on 12 December 2009. Do you want me to show it here?
WT
Last edited by Warmtoast; 22nd Jan 2016 at 11:30.
Elmer's tune
From the YouTube comments. A song for its era:
Over in Chicago next to the Aragon Ballroom was a funeral parlor. One of the morticians was Elmer Albrecht, who used to go next door to the Aragon at lunch and play the piano. Goofball bandleader Dick Jurgens liked what he heard, and the rest is history.
Reply · 2
David Ramsey 1 year ago (edited)
+KE7SFR Yes. There's nothing more to the name. The lyrics and the tune are art for art's sake although the song conveys a message that there's no point in worrying about many items in life. Things happen because they happen. Be happy. Go lucky. What other option do you have? Just get on with life and sing "Elmer's Tune."
Over in Chicago next to the Aragon Ballroom was a funeral parlor. One of the morticians was Elmer Albrecht, who used to go next door to the Aragon at lunch and play the piano. Goofball bandleader Dick Jurgens liked what he heard, and the rest is history.
Reply · 2
David Ramsey 1 year ago (edited)
+KE7SFR Yes. There's nothing more to the name. The lyrics and the tune are art for art's sake although the song conveys a message that there's no point in worrying about many items in life. Things happen because they happen. Be happy. Go lucky. What other option do you have? Just get on with life and sing "Elmer's Tune."
Fear not Danny, you are right about the movement in Immortal Egypt- the frieze moves a la joint HBO BBC opening titles to their historical drama Rome.
As a bonus for still being sane I give you and others a link to pilot training in Canada in WW2 from perhaps a different perspective Harvards Above: The History Of World War Two RAF Fleet Air Arm Training In Kingston & Gananoque, Ontario, Canada
I have also come across references to Vultee Vengences in a book called "Fighting through Kohima" by Michael Lowry
which is well worth a read for it's depiction of the terrors of the infantry fighting in the jungle against the Japanese.
I hope none of the above links have been mentioned before.
As a bonus for still being sane I give you and others a link to pilot training in Canada in WW2 from perhaps a different perspective Harvards Above: The History Of World War Two RAF Fleet Air Arm Training In Kingston & Gananoque, Ontario, Canada
I have also come across references to Vultee Vengences in a book called "Fighting through Kohima" by Michael Lowry
which is well worth a read for it's depiction of the terrors of the infantry fighting in the jungle against the Japanese.
I hope none of the above links have been mentioned before.
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i have just returned from a couple of weeks somewhere warm and Pacific, and have finally got round to catching up.
Thank you all, VERY much, for the continued vibrancy and educational value of the wonderful thread.
That's all ... just needed to say that. Carry on, please.
Thank you all, VERY much, for the continued vibrancy and educational value of the wonderful thread.
That's all ... just needed to say that. Carry on, please.
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Ddraig Goch....do I sense a Welsh connection ?...... (your #8134),
(From my Post p.141 #2813)
( * Charpoy, all joints dissembled, two long members lashed to internal bomb racks, six short ones [two ends and four legs] fit between my seat back and armour plate. Bundle of cotton webbing ["liberated" from a "Cot Newar" - posh charpoy] and mossie net in bedroll [also in bomb bay with rest of crew kit].....reconstruct bed at destination approx 10 mins).
The # Poor Bloody Infantry had it rough in the jungle - there is plenty of war newsfilm showing them struggling in the mud in which they lived, fought (and often died).
Thank you ! (BBC have emailed me yesterday):
Which leaves me thinking that they're as foxed as I am !
Doesn't matter if they have. Thanks all the same,
All the best, Danny.
...depiction of the terrors of the infantry fighting in the jungle against the Japanese...
...We lived in luxury compared with the P.B.I. # in the jungle. In bamboo bashas, with mosquito nets and camp beds (in my case, my DIY travelling bed) *, we were quite comfortable and reasonably well fed...
The # Poor Bloody Infantry had it rough in the jungle - there is plenty of war newsfilm showing them struggling in the mud in which they lived, fought (and often died).
...Fear not Danny, you are right about the movement in Immortal Egypt- the frieze moves à la joint HBO BBC opening titles to their historical drama Rome...
...Hello again.
Just to let you know that it’s taking a bit longer than normal to reply to your enquiry – we’re really sorry about this!
It might be a few days yet, but we hope we can help.
Thanks a lot for your patience.
BBC Enquiries Team
Today's most popular FAQs - BBC - FAQs - Home
P.S. It’s not possible to reply to this email, but we’ll be in touch soon...
Just to let you know that it’s taking a bit longer than normal to reply to your enquiry – we’re really sorry about this!
It might be a few days yet, but we hope we can help.
Thanks a lot for your patience.
BBC Enquiries Team
Today's most popular FAQs - BBC - FAQs - Home
P.S. It’s not possible to reply to this email, but we’ll be in touch soon...
...I hope none of the above links have been mentioned before...
All the best, Danny.
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pettinger93 (your #8130),
Coincidence piled on coincidence ! It is hard to resist the conclusion that something we do not understand was at work here.
I would call that "living dangerously" !
Danny.
Coincidence piled on coincidence ! It is hard to resist the conclusion that something we do not understand was at work here.
... but afterwards Dad revealed that he had kept all of their wartime correspondence that continued even while he was in the Libyan desert and the Burmese jungle...
Danny.
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Union Jack
Thanks Jack for that lovely rendition of Elmer's Tune. You made my day.
I have "the very best of Glen Miller" on my iPad but it doesn't include Elmer; must now go searching for another album.
Danny, I hope you tuned in too?
I have "the very best of Glen Miller" on my iPad but it doesn't include Elmer; must now go searching for another album.
Danny, I hope you tuned in too?
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pettinger romance
Warmtoast:
Feel free to post my father's Obit and the Times article here. Its all in the public domain. I havn't said more about Dad's story, since the subject seems to have drifted a long way from the original aeronautical thread title! But just one more flavour: Dorothy occupied a cabin on the voyage out to Capetown with her sister and 2 other women. 2 days into the voyage a drunken seaman entered their cabin in the evening, and tried to get into bed with the sister. Dorothy, knowing that a couple of Army officers were in another cabin across the corridor, banged on their door for help, and my father, grabbing his service revolver, expelled the seaman in short order. Which is how they met. How romantic is that?
Feel free to post my father's Obit and the Times article here. Its all in the public domain. I havn't said more about Dad's story, since the subject seems to have drifted a long way from the original aeronautical thread title! But just one more flavour: Dorothy occupied a cabin on the voyage out to Capetown with her sister and 2 other women. 2 days into the voyage a drunken seaman entered their cabin in the evening, and tried to get into bed with the sister. Dorothy, knowing that a couple of Army officers were in another cabin across the corridor, banged on their door for help, and my father, grabbing his service revolver, expelled the seaman in short order. Which is how they met. How romantic is that?
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Union Jack and Walter603,
Thank you, Jack, for the Youtube of "Elmer's Tune". There is nothing like music to reawaken old times - and I'd long forgotten the lyrics. Together with "Amapola" (which Chugalug turned up for me a while ago) and "Yes, my Darling Daughter", it was at the top of the charts in the summer of '41, when my world was young.
Danny.
Thank you, Jack, for the Youtube of "Elmer's Tune". There is nothing like music to reawaken old times - and I'd long forgotten the lyrics. Together with "Amapola" (which Chugalug turned up for me a while ago) and "Yes, my Darling Daughter", it was at the top of the charts in the summer of '41, when my world was young.
Danny.