Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

Old 4th Jan 2016, 02:31
  #8041 (permalink)  
Danny42C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Fareastdriver,

Yes quite a number of PPRuNers have served under the banner of that famous feline (at various times, for it has had many reincarnations, Wiki knows all about it).

Bit of a shame that the suffix: "Hyderabad" seems to have been taken off the wording; rather ungrateful as the Nizam of that princely State coughed up for a whole squadron of aircraft for the RFC in WWI, and did the same for the RAF in WWII (I believe). Any offers of a squadron of F-35s from our business community (BAE ?). Thought not.

But then, I suppose, the Princely States have been airbrushed out of history, for the Governments of India and Pakistan are still slightly touchy about the British Raj (which at its height only directly governed 60% of the subcontinent: the remaining 40% being ruled indirectly through the Rajahs and Maharajahs). The Nizam of Hyderabad (reputedly the richest man in the world) was in the Premier League of these.

Danny.

"Far-called our navies melt away—
On dune and headland sinks the fire—
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!"
(Kipling: Recessional)
 
Old 4th Jan 2016, 02:55
  #8042 (permalink)  
Danny42C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Flt.Lt. Jack Staffford (RIP) DFC

Geriaviator (your #8038),
...We droned on just on top of the cloud ready to drop into it if attacked by German fighters. I was anxiously checking the instruments, for the engine had low oil pressure and a high temperature, but apart from being very noisy everything seemed to function...
So Jack Stafford lives to fight another day ! The Tempest must have been a tough old bird to survive collision with a Grid cable (luckily it didn't leave him dragging a hundred yards of the stuff behind him !) This is a fantastic story. It would be nice to know what damage his aircraft had suffered, but perhaps that will be in the next episode.

Nice, sad little story about Bill Williams.

Danny.
 
Old 4th Jan 2016, 10:07
  #8043 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,222
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Bit of a shame that the suffix: "Hyderabad" seems to have been taken off the wording;
I'm speechless! Some politically correct w****r at MOD has done that. I was on 110 Sqn to the last day 12th February 1971, at Royal Air Force, Changi and the official wooden shield had Hyderabad written on it. The Proof? my one.

Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 10:31
  #8044 (permalink)  
Danny42C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Fareastdriver,

Sign of the times, FED, I'm afraid. At least, they can't worry me much longer ! But I'm sorry for you youngsters, for things are going to get much worse before they get better.

À propos of nothing at all, a cat's erect tail is a sign of welcome and happiness, it seems,

Cheers, Danny.
 
Old 4th Jan 2016, 11:23
  #8045 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: THE BLUEBIRD CAFE
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
a very happy new year Danny . . . we all want you to see in as many more as you can manage . .. . . . so keep taking the pills ...

a cat's erect tail is a sign of welcome and happiness,
It used to be said that a tom when about to spray had his mast at the vertical and his flag at the ready at the base.

and on the subject of the country not being in the very best of hands and other ills of society . .. . was it Oscar who said . . . Youth is wasted on the young?
Fantome is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 12:27
  #8046 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Sussex UK
Age: 66
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Danny, Fareastdriver ...

I've also seen some crests of 152 Squadron RAF with 'Hyderabad' airbrushed out ... shame on those responsible I say.



Coff.

PS. F/L R M D Hall DFC (ex 152 Squadron BoB) was a good friend ... sadly no longer with us ... RIP Sam.
CoffmanStarter is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 13:18
  #8047 (permalink)  

Gentleman Aviator
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Teetering Towers - somewhere in the Shires
Age: 75
Posts: 3,706
Received 66 Likes on 34 Posts
Halley (Squadrons of the RAF) records a very large number of "Empire" Sqns in addition to those mentioned above. I'll try and not take up too much space .........

They were:

18 & 257 - Burma. 35, 79, 99, 234 & 264 - Madras Presidency. 44, 237 & 266 - Rhodesia. 46 - Uganda. 56 & 130 - Punjab. 65, 92, 127 & 149 - East India. 72 - Basutoland. 74 - Trinidad. 75 - New Zealand. 122 & 132 - Bombay.

124 - Baroda. 125 - Newfoundland. 129 - Mysore. 139 - Jamaica. 167, 183, 218 & 249 - Gold Coast. 82 & 87 - United Provinces (where they?). 88 & 114 - Hong Kong. 91 - Nigeria. 97 - Straits Settlements.

102 & 165 - Ceylon. 174 - Mauritius. 214 - Federated Malay States. 222 - Natal. 247 - Canadian (not just "Canada"). 245 - Northern Rhodesia. 250 - Sudan. 253 - Hyderabad State (not just "Hyderabad" like 110 and 152).

When I was first on 72 ('71 to '73) ISTR the "Basutoland" name still being on some (old-ish) badges and memorabilia, but not when I returned a few years later.......
teeteringhead is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 14:15
  #8048 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,222
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Obviously the present day RAF is not to be reminded of it's colonial past when it and other Dominion and Colonial countries defended their freedom.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 15:24
  #8049 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Kalgoorlie, W.A. , Australia
Age: 86
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
United Provinces (where they?).
Union of South Africa, not the modern Republic of South Africa.
Pom Pax is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 15:36
  #8050 (permalink)  

Gentleman Aviator
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Teetering Towers - somewhere in the Shires
Age: 75
Posts: 3,706
Received 66 Likes on 34 Posts
Thank you Pom Pax - every day's a school day; even at my time of life!
teeteringhead is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 15:46
  #8051 (permalink)  
pzu
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: N Yorkshire, UK
Age: 76
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
United Provinces

United Provinces - unsure of S African link, but Wiki (Yes I Know) has this link

United Provinces, former state, India

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)
pzu is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 15:48
  #8052 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wales
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Squadron Badges

Whilst working on my History of No. 35 Squadron project my enquiring mind asked when and why the squadron ceased to be known as No. 35 (Madras Presidency) Squadron.

I haven't managed to answer that question, so if anyone does come up with the answer, please let me know.
Petet is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 15:59
  #8053 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Co. Down
Age: 83
Posts: 847
Received 253 Likes on 81 Posts
Yes, all par for the course I'm afraid. Editing Jack Stafford's memoirs has made me even more aware of the sacrifices made by New Zealand, who sent the very best of her young men from 1939-1945. The UK handsomely repaid them only 30 yrs later when we joined the Common Market and told Aussie and Kiwi alike to p--s off, you and your products aren't welcome now that we're friends with the Germans, the French, the Italians, the Spanish and even the Belgians, who will soon be buying our country anyway

Rant over before my blood pressure gets overboosted. For Danny and others following the Stafford story, this is the only sortie he described in detail as it clearly had a great effect on him. The Tempests of 122 Wing carried a heavy load in the last year of the war as only they had the range and performance for low-level warfare, and paid a terrible price for it. More tomorrow.


Last edited by Geriaviator; 4th Jan 2016 at 16:19. Reason: Add the picture
Geriaviator is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 16:59
  #8054 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Fairford, Glos
Age: 99
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Euro v Commonwealth

Geriaviator you are so right - have always considered it an utter disgrace that visitors from Oz or NZ need visas to enter a country that they or their forebears defended, the latter often at cost of their lives.

With all discredit to Ted Heath & his minions..........

harrym
harrym is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 18:12
  #8055 (permalink)  

Gentleman Aviator
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Teetering Towers - somewhere in the Shires
Age: 75
Posts: 3,706
Received 66 Likes on 34 Posts
Editing Jack Stafford's memoirs has made me even more aware of the sacrifices made by New Zealand
ISTR that NZ lost the highest number of men - as a proportion of adult population - than any other Allied country .....
teeteringhead is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2016, 21:42
  #8056 (permalink)  
Danny42C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Petet,

Even if they'd left "Madras" in, I suppose it would have to be "Chennai" now.

Danny.
 
Old 5th Jan 2016, 14:57
  #8057 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Co. Down
Age: 83
Posts: 847
Received 253 Likes on 81 Posts
Cool Now the sponsored ££ Squadron

Nothing stays the same, folks, anyway the Government is planning to sell everything including the RAF to China. Until then, I see a commercial opportunity in the sponsored squadron:
84 (RENTOKIL) Sqn, SCORPIONES PUNGUNT (Scorpions sting)
617 (DYNOROD) Sqn, APRES MOI LE DELUGE (After me the flood)
6 (SPECSAVERS) Sqn, OCULI EXERCITUS (Eyes of the Army)

Aircraft, or the few of them we have left, will be painted in sponsor's livery. The scheme will finance a new Bureaucratic Wing for the Ministry of Defence.
Geriaviator is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2016, 17:29
  #8058 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Penzance, Cornwall UK
Age: 84
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We'll need even more Civil Servants then...........
Rosevidney1 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2016, 19:36
  #8059 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Co. Down
Age: 83
Posts: 847
Received 253 Likes on 81 Posts
Did a dead colleague bring Jack home through the flak and the weather?

Post no. 20 from the memoirs of Tempest pilot Flt Lt Jack Stafford, DFC, RNZAF

AFTER SOME time Bev indicated a reduction in height and we dropped into the cloud gradually lowering through it in tight formation. We broke cloud about 1000ft and were met by a mass of flak, for they were waiting for us. Bev went onto his back and disappeared beneath me and I was almost blown upside down as a large hole appeared in my starboard wing close to my cannons. I pulled up into the cloud, with the flak all around me providing a most disconcerting scene, and flew south-west for some time, quite sure that I was the only one left. Again I broke cloud to try and locate my position and saw an airstrip with a windsock but no sign of any aircraft or transport. I thought it might have been recently captured by the Allies and could be in south-eastern Holland.

My engine was giving trouble, running rougher than ever and the temperature was alarming. I thought I should try to put it down and approached the airfield. I felt I must be in southern Holland by now and I did a cautious circuit, but as I was on the downwind leg I became apprehensive. Something didn't look right and when I opened up and started to climb away I was again subjected to some very unpleasant flak, mighty close. I was still in enemy country, so I remained in the cloud continuing SW but was starting to doubt the compass and everything else. Finally the motor started to miss and smelled dangerously hot, with oil pressure right down and vibrations coming through the stick and rudder pedals.

The cloud had lowered even more and I was just skimming along its base looking at the dark landscape beneath. I saw a village and flew towards it, deciding that if I were in the British-American zone, transport would be there and if Allied, it would be easily identified. I passed over the village very low and thank God, I saw big white stars on the tops of several trucks, with a large ploughed field suitable for a belly landing.

As I turned and lined up for the approach I was amazed to see recall rockets piercing the mist in the distance, obviously from an airfield. My chances of survival would be better there, with a 'fire truck and meat wagon.' I made for it, nursing that faithful old kite through the gathering gloom.
As the strip came into sight I couldn't believe it was Volkel, the strip I had left to go on this show! I approached without any circuit, dropped my wheels, got the green lights, dropped the flaps, and found no flaps. That didn't matter at Volkel, with the length of runway on this ex-Luftwaffe airfield I had plenty of room. I glided over the perimeter track and touched down on the airfield I had despaired of ever seeing again. Home, safe, alive, no more flak until tomorrow, I could hardly believe it.

In the mess I was congratulated, even by our Kiwi Group Captain Pat Jameson, on my great navigational feat in that weather, with no radio and a badly damaged aircraft. I said nothing but wondered how in hell I had get home, for I had had no idea where I was. Was some unknown instinct guiding me the 70 miles from that flak-torn little town? Was it perhaps the soul of Billy Williams in the cockpit with me? Did we come home together?

Bev Hall had survived to arrive back long before me with an aircraft as battered as mine. Five days later we were together, just the two of us, high in that cold and merciless German sky when he was shot down and killed by a Focke-Wulf 190.

Geriaviator is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2016, 23:29
  #8060 (permalink)  
Danny42C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Angel Funny, that.

Geriaviator (Jack Stafford's Memoir Post 20),
...Was some unknown instinct guiding me the 70 miles from that flak-torn little town?...
Strange things happened in war, which were difficult to brush off as coincidences. I offer a much less dramatic case of my own in Burma (Post p.135 #2692, block lettering mine):
....I must have run a good 40 miles north of target with him sitting on my tail, so I had to guess a rough heading for base. Keeping climb power on the engine, I steamed along over the endless mountain ridges, feeling very lonely and insignificant in a very wide world.

Half an hour later, I spotted five dots on the horizon, dead ahead. It was the rest of the formation, dawdling along to let me catch up, and wondering where I'd got to. And I'd run straight up behind them! Stew was amazed (so was I) and bored the Sgts. Mess rigid when we got back, bragging about the navigational genius he'd got for a pilot (I didn't disillusion him!)..
Makes you think !

Danny.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.