Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: humzaland
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like most of HMG's 'giveaways' the Disturbance Allowance (plus the costs of house-hunting and removal, and a bonus if you moved to an area where there was supposedly a shortage of labour!) given to help the unemployed find work elsewhere did not get a lot of publicity - you might even say care was taken to make sure its existence was well-hidden. Like Danny I had a job lined up, but unlike him I was lucky and chanced to hear about scheme on Radio 4's lunchtime consumer programme. This spelt out the arcane conditions in some detail, and I was able to register before applying - one wrong step though after that and you'd still had it! The experience of being on the wrong side of the counter at the Labour Exchanges at both ends (were they Jobcentres in the 70s?) was opinion-forming to say the least. AFAIR the allowances amounted in total to about £800, not a huge amount even then but tax-free and a godsend at a very difficult time.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Danny On the Dole.
binbrook (your #6620).
Re: "The experience of being on the wrong side of the counter" rings a bell with me.
Thirty four years before I retired in '72, as a 16 yr old I'd started as a "box clerk" in an "Employment Exchange" (which name had at least a little dignity about it, unlike the current faux-plebeian "Job Centre"). But there was precious little "employment" to exchange in those days: there were 2 million unemployed (out of a much smaller working population) right up to the War.
At the age of 40, you had little hope of re-employment, after 50 none. (This would cover many ex-servicemen from WWI). Friday after Friday I faced the endless queues of hopeless-eyed men, who quietly shuffled up to my "box" position (one of four) at the counter to hand in their yellow UB40s. I'd lift their stubby small 'file' from my drawer of files, pull out the UB252 (?) payment slip, check against my 'Rating Sheet' * , if the amounts tallied "Sign here, please" #, then pass across the 17/- for a single man, 27/-for a married (plus 3/- for each child). (If they'd run out of Benefit, it would be 14/- from the Assistance Board plus (I hope, the 10/- and 3/- as well).
Any discrepancy: "Down to the end of the counter" (another queue ! - for I had to keep my "production line" going at all costs - the next batch would be coming in on the half-hour), There a senior clerk or the Supervisor (the only Executive Class Officer) would sort it out, then send him back to the tail of my queue and finally to me once more.
All the other "box clerks" were "TMC 3s" - "Temporary Male Clerk, Grade III", ex-servicemen from the last war, recruited from the other side of the counter and pathetically grateful for a job which paid hardly more than benefit rates, had no security and no pension. I was the only "Established Civil Servant" there (apart from the Supervisor), with a secure job (even if it paid only 30/- a week then) and a half-pay pension to look forward to in 44 years' time.
Note *: the benefit due had to be calculated independently by two separate clerks, the amounts were not cross-checked until the claimant was in front of me (as a bar to collusive fraud ?)
Note # "Or make your mark" (a "X"). Illiteracy was not then uncommon, we had a tiny rubber stamp "........His/Her Mark", which fitted in the signature box in the UB252 and on which a clerk had filled in "John Smith" or whatever.
So now, 31 years on, I was to have a taste of my own nedicine, and I was not looking forward to it at all, although it would be only for 4 weeks before I took up my post with C&E in Manchester. I cannot remember where the Thirsk "Job Centre" was (it would probably have been a part-time "Out-House" from Darlington, anyway).
It wasn't as demeaning as I feared, but I was intrigued by the fact that so little had changed from my day. I had the same yellow UB40, the (single) "box clerk" was still there with his "box" and Rating Sheet on the counter, I signed the same UB252 - but I think they paid by Bank Giro, not cash. For my 4 weeks I got £20 a week, which was a useful addition to the £25 RAF pension (multiply by 11.7 for current values).
I read carefully every relevant leaflet I could find; in this way I came across the generous "Disturbance Allowance" (I've said "£1,000", but I suppose it was "up to"). As you found, there was a joker in the pack (but you managed to avoid him !).
I can't complain about the attitude of the "Job Centre" staff; they were pleasant enough in "signing me on", although firm in refusing me my "Disturbance Allowance".
I remembered, pre-war, one of our older "customers" had reached 65 and so had left us for good after years of benefit or assistance payments. The old chap made a special visit to us to thank us all for the courteous treatment that he'd always had from us over the years. The incident has remained bright in my memory ever since.
All the best for the New Year,
Danny.
PS: Wiki says the term "Job Centre" was introduced "in the mid 1970s".
Re: "The experience of being on the wrong side of the counter" rings a bell with me.
Thirty four years before I retired in '72, as a 16 yr old I'd started as a "box clerk" in an "Employment Exchange" (which name had at least a little dignity about it, unlike the current faux-plebeian "Job Centre"). But there was precious little "employment" to exchange in those days: there were 2 million unemployed (out of a much smaller working population) right up to the War.
At the age of 40, you had little hope of re-employment, after 50 none. (This would cover many ex-servicemen from WWI). Friday after Friday I faced the endless queues of hopeless-eyed men, who quietly shuffled up to my "box" position (one of four) at the counter to hand in their yellow UB40s. I'd lift their stubby small 'file' from my drawer of files, pull out the UB252 (?) payment slip, check against my 'Rating Sheet' * , if the amounts tallied "Sign here, please" #, then pass across the 17/- for a single man, 27/-for a married (plus 3/- for each child). (If they'd run out of Benefit, it would be 14/- from the Assistance Board plus (I hope, the 10/- and 3/- as well).
Any discrepancy: "Down to the end of the counter" (another queue ! - for I had to keep my "production line" going at all costs - the next batch would be coming in on the half-hour), There a senior clerk or the Supervisor (the only Executive Class Officer) would sort it out, then send him back to the tail of my queue and finally to me once more.
All the other "box clerks" were "TMC 3s" - "Temporary Male Clerk, Grade III", ex-servicemen from the last war, recruited from the other side of the counter and pathetically grateful for a job which paid hardly more than benefit rates, had no security and no pension. I was the only "Established Civil Servant" there (apart from the Supervisor), with a secure job (even if it paid only 30/- a week then) and a half-pay pension to look forward to in 44 years' time.
Note *: the benefit due had to be calculated independently by two separate clerks, the amounts were not cross-checked until the claimant was in front of me (as a bar to collusive fraud ?)
Note # "Or make your mark" (a "X"). Illiteracy was not then uncommon, we had a tiny rubber stamp "........His/Her Mark", which fitted in the signature box in the UB252 and on which a clerk had filled in "John Smith" or whatever.
So now, 31 years on, I was to have a taste of my own nedicine, and I was not looking forward to it at all, although it would be only for 4 weeks before I took up my post with C&E in Manchester. I cannot remember where the Thirsk "Job Centre" was (it would probably have been a part-time "Out-House" from Darlington, anyway).
It wasn't as demeaning as I feared, but I was intrigued by the fact that so little had changed from my day. I had the same yellow UB40, the (single) "box clerk" was still there with his "box" and Rating Sheet on the counter, I signed the same UB252 - but I think they paid by Bank Giro, not cash. For my 4 weeks I got £20 a week, which was a useful addition to the £25 RAF pension (multiply by 11.7 for current values).
I read carefully every relevant leaflet I could find; in this way I came across the generous "Disturbance Allowance" (I've said "£1,000", but I suppose it was "up to"). As you found, there was a joker in the pack (but you managed to avoid him !).
I can't complain about the attitude of the "Job Centre" staff; they were pleasant enough in "signing me on", although firm in refusing me my "Disturbance Allowance".
I remembered, pre-war, one of our older "customers" had reached 65 and so had left us for good after years of benefit or assistance payments. The old chap made a special visit to us to thank us all for the courteous treatment that he'd always had from us over the years. The incident has remained bright in my memory ever since. All the best for the New Year,
Danny.
PS: Wiki says the term "Job Centre" was introduced "in the mid 1970s".
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,812
Received 137 Likes
on
64 Posts
Oh, Danny42C, what a picture you paint!
My only experience of that world was when I moved to Jersey in '05, and was able [by being over 60] to opt out of their Social Security system. My 'child bride', being a bit younger, was required [no option] to contribute some £200+ a month until she reached 'a certain age', at which point she now receives nearly £15 a week. No, I can't be bothered to work out the pay-back
However, we have both received our UK Pensioner's £10 Christmas Bonus [tax free], which has to be one of the biggest political farces going.
Stuff it ... we're off to Hawaii on Thursday, all the way in Business/US Domestic First, for £1,151 per person
My only experience of that world was when I moved to Jersey in '05, and was able [by being over 60] to opt out of their Social Security system. My 'child bride', being a bit younger, was required [no option] to contribute some £200+ a month until she reached 'a certain age', at which point she now receives nearly £15 a week. No, I can't be bothered to work out the pay-back
However, we have both received our UK Pensioner's £10 Christmas Bonus [tax free], which has to be one of the biggest political farces going.
Stuff it ... we're off to Hawaii on Thursday, all the way in Business/US Domestic First, for £1,151 per person
Guest
Posts: n/a
MPN11,
Bloated Plutocrat ! Wouldn't exactly want it to happen, but if you do get hijacked or plunge into the ocean, you wouldn't grudge us a bit of Schadenfreude, now would you ?
Have a nice trip ! Don't take any Confederate money ! Happy new year !
Danny.
Bloated Plutocrat ! Wouldn't exactly want it to happen, but if you do get hijacked or plunge into the ocean, you wouldn't grudge us a bit of Schadenfreude, now would you ?
Have a nice trip ! Don't take any Confederate money ! Happy new year !
Danny.
Danny et al,
Can I take this opportunity to wish the most prosperous and Happy New year to all contributors to this thread. Thank you all for the continued interesting narrative over the past 12 months. Looking forward to another year of terrific history, as it happened. Lang may all ye lumps reek !!!!!!
Smudge
Can I take this opportunity to wish the most prosperous and Happy New year to all contributors to this thread. Thank you all for the continued interesting narrative over the past 12 months. Looking forward to another year of terrific history, as it happened. Lang may all ye lumps reek !!!!!!
Smudge
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,812
Received 137 Likes
on
64 Posts
Smudge's sentiment strongly re-expressed from this callsign. Thank you ALL for the fascinating joy-ride this Thread has been in the past years. Being an 'elder' never stops you from learning more from the wonderful narratives here, for which I thank you all profoundly.
And, Danny42C mon vieux, "Que Sera, Sera". It appears it will be piddling down on Honolulululu when we arrive on Friday, so Waikikikikiki Beach will be slightly off-limits! Your Schadenfreude has kicked in already
Bless y'all ... Good Health and Happiness for 2015
And, Danny42C mon vieux, "Que Sera, Sera". It appears it will be piddling down on Honolulululu when we arrive on Friday, so Waikikikikiki Beach will be slightly off-limits! Your Schadenfreude has kicked in already
Bless y'all ... Good Health and Happiness for 2015
Thank you everyone that has contributed to the best thread on Prune - wonderful stories, and importantly no snidey comments or 'willie-waving' as is often the case on forums such as this!
MPN11
Have a good time in Hawaii - I went there in May '68 on a Westabout' from Changi and recall being slightly disappointed when I saw Waikiki. I was and still am a great Beach Boys fan and one their tracks on 'Surfer Girl' LP was called 'Hawaii' - chorus went something like ' Honolulu, Waikiki, do you wanna come along with me? '. Maybe the beach wasn't as spectacular as I had envisaged.
Went there again in June '70 while on 30 at Fairford and had a day off and boozy time with the double crew. I can't recall them all, my skipper was Mike Mercer, the co was Steve Pull and the other nav' was my constant partner in crime Jeff Berryman ( sadly RIP last summer). Jeff and I both became civil ATCOs.
MPN11
Have a good time in Hawaii - I went there in May '68 on a Westabout' from Changi and recall being slightly disappointed when I saw Waikiki. I was and still am a great Beach Boys fan and one their tracks on 'Surfer Girl' LP was called 'Hawaii' - chorus went something like ' Honolulu, Waikiki, do you wanna come along with me? '. Maybe the beach wasn't as spectacular as I had envisaged.
Went there again in June '70 while on 30 at Fairford and had a day off and boozy time with the double crew. I can't recall them all, my skipper was Mike Mercer, the co was Steve Pull and the other nav' was my constant partner in crime Jeff Berryman ( sadly RIP last summer). Jeff and I both became civil ATCOs.
Danny writes: pull out the UB252 (?) payment slip
I do hope this is not a Freudian slip, O revered and learned one. I seem to recall that a form 252 is the charge sheet for the Boys in Blue and Pongos alike.
Whatever our record, may we all have a peaceful, prosperous and above all a healthy New Year. Best wishes, everyone.
I do hope this is not a Freudian slip, O revered and learned one. I seem to recall that a form 252 is the charge sheet for the Boys in Blue and Pongos alike.
Whatever our record, may we all have a peaceful, prosperous and above all a healthy New Year. Best wishes, everyone.
A Happy New Year for all, especially to our Maitre'd and Master of Ceremonies of this splendid thread. Your enthusiasm is an example to us all, Danny.
I agree with you re Waikiki, B48N. Rather a let down, but no doubt so is Bondi as well. What was good was being put up at Fort deRussy, the US R&R single story facility bordering the beach. That was mid '60s, was it still there when you visited? I see that it is now a twin tower hotel according to our ever trusted Wiki:-
Hale Koa Hotel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I agree with you re Waikiki, B48N. Rather a let down, but no doubt so is Bondi as well. What was good was being put up at Fort deRussy, the US R&R single story facility bordering the beach. That was mid '60s, was it still there when you visited? I see that it is now a twin tower hotel according to our ever trusted Wiki:-
Hale Koa Hotel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Llandudno
Age: 100
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gaining An R.A.F. Pilots Brevet in WW11
Hello again. I left you at Aldergrove in January 1957.
The beauty of being in Coastal Command was that it seemed to be far removed from the remainder of the R.A.F. When we landed away at St Mawgan, St Eval, Gibraltar, Malta, Aden we always knew people from the resident Shackleton Squadrons. Also when we flew navexs we were free to look at ships, harbours etc. Also we were told, and I do not know true this is, that Coastal captains were advised, not ordered similar to ships captains!
120 Squadron had been the top scoring anti submarine squadron during the war and was the first to be equipped with the Mk 1 Shackleton in 1951. The Liberators had all been returned to America after the war and been replaced by Lancasters. The Shack was a great improvement as it was not so cramped but was incredibly noisy. Until the Mk 111 there was not any soundproofing.
In 1957 soon after I joined 120, the Mk 1 was replaced with the Mk 11. This had the long nose with the gunners position and twin 20mm cannon. The radar scanner under the nose of the Mk 1 had been replaced by a retractable "dustbin" aft of the main spar. A streamlined observation window was located in the tail for an observer to observe "fall of shot". A very nice aeroplane but incredibly noisy, hence "Shackleton Ear" and pensions!!
Soon after I had been given a crew it was back to Londonderry to the JASS Course. By now the ex Neptuners were finishing their conversions at Kinloss and being distributed to the Shackleton squadrons so it was nice seeing old friends again.
Now Northern Ireland was beginning to become unpleasant and we were all advised to be very careful. Police stations were being targetted and road blocks were regular occurrences at night. A blue lantern meant stop and we hoped that it was the "B" Specials and not the others!!
In early summer 1957 one of our aircraft was sent to Gibraltar to take the Duke of Edinburgh on an anti-submarine exercise which was carried out satisfactorily. On its next trip (WR 968) failed to get three greens so was diverted to a foamed landing at the French base at Port Lyautey in Morocco. A working party from Gib managed to get it flyable and returned it to Gib. At Aldergrove I was told to get a skeleton crew proceed to Gib and fly it back.
People in the mess at Gib were very solicitous, drinks etc and the following morning we saw why and what we had to fly!.. No hydraulics, Bomb doors wired closed. No Flaps, Undercarriage locked down. Do not attempt to ditch!! Anyway the trip back was ok but a bit worrying and an even closer watch on gauges!!
Our Shackleton trips were longer than the Neptune ones. On the Neptune the longest were about 15 hours, on the Shack we regularly did 18 hours. At least we had a galley in the Shack. In those days we cooked. None of the frozen meals that the 111's had.
The beauty of being in Coastal Command was that it seemed to be far removed from the remainder of the R.A.F. When we landed away at St Mawgan, St Eval, Gibraltar, Malta, Aden we always knew people from the resident Shackleton Squadrons. Also when we flew navexs we were free to look at ships, harbours etc. Also we were told, and I do not know true this is, that Coastal captains were advised, not ordered similar to ships captains!
120 Squadron had been the top scoring anti submarine squadron during the war and was the first to be equipped with the Mk 1 Shackleton in 1951. The Liberators had all been returned to America after the war and been replaced by Lancasters. The Shack was a great improvement as it was not so cramped but was incredibly noisy. Until the Mk 111 there was not any soundproofing.
In 1957 soon after I joined 120, the Mk 1 was replaced with the Mk 11. This had the long nose with the gunners position and twin 20mm cannon. The radar scanner under the nose of the Mk 1 had been replaced by a retractable "dustbin" aft of the main spar. A streamlined observation window was located in the tail for an observer to observe "fall of shot". A very nice aeroplane but incredibly noisy, hence "Shackleton Ear" and pensions!!
Soon after I had been given a crew it was back to Londonderry to the JASS Course. By now the ex Neptuners were finishing their conversions at Kinloss and being distributed to the Shackleton squadrons so it was nice seeing old friends again.
Now Northern Ireland was beginning to become unpleasant and we were all advised to be very careful. Police stations were being targetted and road blocks were regular occurrences at night. A blue lantern meant stop and we hoped that it was the "B" Specials and not the others!!
In early summer 1957 one of our aircraft was sent to Gibraltar to take the Duke of Edinburgh on an anti-submarine exercise which was carried out satisfactorily. On its next trip (WR 968) failed to get three greens so was diverted to a foamed landing at the French base at Port Lyautey in Morocco. A working party from Gib managed to get it flyable and returned it to Gib. At Aldergrove I was told to get a skeleton crew proceed to Gib and fly it back.
People in the mess at Gib were very solicitous, drinks etc and the following morning we saw why and what we had to fly!.. No hydraulics, Bomb doors wired closed. No Flaps, Undercarriage locked down. Do not attempt to ditch!! Anyway the trip back was ok but a bit worrying and an even closer watch on gauges!!
Our Shackleton trips were longer than the Neptune ones. On the Neptune the longest were about 15 hours, on the Shack we regularly did 18 hours. At least we had a galley in the Shack. In those days we cooked. None of the frozen meals that the 111's had.
Ormeside 22
You may remember that beside the road from the front of the Aldergrove Officers Mess to the perimeter track were the overflow accomodation huts and on the sports field side a large wooden building. In the forties this was the WAAF officers wing but when I was there in 1949/50 it was used as a married quarter.
As a lad of nine I used to walk around the perimeter track, past ATC, the RAuxAF blister hangers, across the runway crossing and down the road to Aldergrove Halt. There it was 4th class (wooden seats) to Lisburn and then a walk to Lisburn High School.
You mention the troubles. There were two Catholic boys who joined the train at Crumlin. They always sat with me because none of the other Irish boys would talk to them. When we got to Lisburn they went to a Catholic school and even though the initial walk could have been together they would not let me in case I should find myself in trouble.
Fron the house I would sit looking out of the window directly across the sports field to the runways and during my time there I watched a couple of Halifaxs, a Mosquito and innumerable Spitfire 22s disassemble themselves. The most amusing at an Empire Air Day was a Tiger Moth doing aerobatices that finished with a 0.75 loop. It was severly crumpled, but nobody hurt and they put it on a trailer and towed it around the crowd so that they could see what a crashed aircraft looked like.
The dump by the Maintenance Unit was heaven to play in. They had a Sunderland plus Halifaxs, Lancasters and multitudes of smaller aircraft. Just behind was an old taxitrack where a Squadron Leader and his family lived in a caravan.
They had a daughter, Deidre, the first love of my life.
You may remember that beside the road from the front of the Aldergrove Officers Mess to the perimeter track were the overflow accomodation huts and on the sports field side a large wooden building. In the forties this was the WAAF officers wing but when I was there in 1949/50 it was used as a married quarter.
As a lad of nine I used to walk around the perimeter track, past ATC, the RAuxAF blister hangers, across the runway crossing and down the road to Aldergrove Halt. There it was 4th class (wooden seats) to Lisburn and then a walk to Lisburn High School.
You mention the troubles. There were two Catholic boys who joined the train at Crumlin. They always sat with me because none of the other Irish boys would talk to them. When we got to Lisburn they went to a Catholic school and even though the initial walk could have been together they would not let me in case I should find myself in trouble.
Fron the house I would sit looking out of the window directly across the sports field to the runways and during my time there I watched a couple of Halifaxs, a Mosquito and innumerable Spitfire 22s disassemble themselves. The most amusing at an Empire Air Day was a Tiger Moth doing aerobatices that finished with a 0.75 loop. It was severly crumpled, but nobody hurt and they put it on a trailer and towed it around the crowd so that they could see what a crashed aircraft looked like.
The dump by the Maintenance Unit was heaven to play in. They had a Sunderland plus Halifaxs, Lancasters and multitudes of smaller aircraft. Just behind was an old taxitrack where a Squadron Leader and his family lived in a caravan.
They had a daughter, Deidre, the first love of my life.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Smudge, MPN11, Brian 48nav, Geriaviator, Chugalug, and Ormeside (and all the rest) Greetings !.
MPN11, Your: "It appears it will be piddling down on Honolulululu when we arrive". Same here - nothing changes. (and go easy on the complimentary Pol Roger in Business Class - an extra couple of 'lu's and 'ki's seem to have crept in !). And don't take any wooden nickels !
Geriaviator, Could well be a slip (but Freud has little relevance at my age !). How about 245 ? Is there anyone on frequency and on t' Dole ? Do they still have those little slips to sign ? (but then I suppose it's all "on line" now).
Chugalug, Your: "our Maitre'd and Master of Ceremonies of this splendid thread". You'll make me blush ! People may believe it ! (All the inhabitants of our Crewroom in Cyberspace are of equal status - we have no "bosses" here !). It was just my good fortune to look in three years ago when candidates from WWII were scarce, the Founding Giants had, sadly, died out, and I could hold the Fort until reinforcements have turned up.
Ormeside, "Hard pounding, Gentlemen", indeed ! But then think of all those lovely hours clocking up in your Logbooks (even though your job was only i/c Frying Pan). And the civvie vacancies waiting for you when you turned up with a wheelbarrow full of them !
Cheers, Danny.
MPN11, Your: "It appears it will be piddling down on Honolulululu when we arrive". Same here - nothing changes. (and go easy on the complimentary Pol Roger in Business Class - an extra couple of 'lu's and 'ki's seem to have crept in !). And don't take any wooden nickels !
Geriaviator, Could well be a slip (but Freud has little relevance at my age !). How about 245 ? Is there anyone on frequency and on t' Dole ? Do they still have those little slips to sign ? (but then I suppose it's all "on line" now).
Chugalug, Your: "our Maitre'd and Master of Ceremonies of this splendid thread". You'll make me blush ! People may believe it ! (All the inhabitants of our Crewroom in Cyberspace are of equal status - we have no "bosses" here !). It was just my good fortune to look in three years ago when candidates from WWII were scarce, the Founding Giants had, sadly, died out, and I could hold the Fort until reinforcements have turned up.
Ormeside, "Hard pounding, Gentlemen", indeed ! But then think of all those lovely hours clocking up in your Logbooks (even though your job was only i/c Frying Pan). And the civvie vacancies waiting for you when you turned up with a wheelbarrow full of them !
Cheers, Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 4th Jan 2015 at 15:29. Reason: Correction.
Ormeside28
In 1957 whilst based at RAF China Bay (just across the Bay from the RN Base at Trincomalee), Seletar-based 205/209 Sqn had a Sunderland on permanent detachment for SAR purposes. I enjoyed trips around the north-east coast of Ceylon and the wonderful views from the Sunderland's panoramic windows.
A plus point about the Sunderland was that it was equipped with a Primus (paraffin) fuelled galley for fry ups and fresh brewed tea. Flying in a Sunderland the 205/209 crews adopted Senior Service parlance and called what I knew as a galley, the "Wardroom" - all very civilised!
we were told, and I do not know true this is, that Coastal captains were advised, not ordered similar to ships captains!
A plus point about the Sunderland was that it was equipped with a Primus (paraffin) fuelled galley for fry ups and fresh brewed tea. Flying in a Sunderland the 205/209 crews adopted Senior Service parlance and called what I knew as a galley, the "Wardroom" - all very civilised!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Llandudno
Age: 100
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gaining An R.A.F. Pilots Brevet In WW11
Warmtoast. I joined 205 at Changi when we were still half and half Sunderlands and Shackletons. We must have served together. However I still have a few things to tell about 120.
Warmtoast,
Great photographs, and what an experience that must have been. For some of us, taken with the four engined types, that would have been heaven. Super pictures of another world I think.
Smudge
Great photographs, and what an experience that must have been. For some of us, taken with the four engined types, that would have been heaven. Super pictures of another world I think.
Smudge
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Llandudno
Age: 100
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gaining An R.A.F. Pilots Brevet in WW11
Life on 120 was busy and interesting. Plenty of flying, a couple of sessions at the JASS Course at Londonderry with tame frigates and once with operational ones including a frigate Commanded by Commander Place V.C. of Tirpitz fame. Also a couple of trips to the JASS School in Malta to operate with the Mediterranean Fleet.
On Navexs in the North West and South West approaches we could contact individual British merchant ships which all carried convoy escort plans and say that we would use them as a convoy which was interesting and entailed lamp work by the sigmallers. Navexs were usually carried out at around 1000 feet and we sometimes came across Russian Elint ships,probably not known to our authorities. Shadowing Russian warships leaving the Baltic was one of our jobs and we would see them past North Cape. They obviously used us for practice, and we could pick up their gun radar on our ECM. The big transatlantic liners were often seen on our trips. The Queen Mary at speed was a sight to behold. sometimes the propellor "disturbance" would go back thirty miles. At the heights we flew there was usually something to see and British trawlesr far north would give us a friendly wave.
On Navexs in the North West and South West approaches we could contact individual British merchant ships which all carried convoy escort plans and say that we would use them as a convoy which was interesting and entailed lamp work by the sigmallers. Navexs were usually carried out at around 1000 feet and we sometimes came across Russian Elint ships,probably not known to our authorities. Shadowing Russian warships leaving the Baltic was one of our jobs and we would see them past North Cape. They obviously used us for practice, and we could pick up their gun radar on our ECM. The big transatlantic liners were often seen on our trips. The Queen Mary at speed was a sight to behold. sometimes the propellor "disturbance" would go back thirty miles. At the heights we flew there was usually something to see and British trawlesr far north would give us a friendly wave.
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Llandudno
Age: 100
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gaining An R.A.F. pilots Brevet in WW11
In February 1958 I was lucky enough to take one of two Shackletons to visit some of the American Naval Stations on their Eastern seaboard. Our first stop was Lajes in the Azores. the winds were against us the next day for Bermuda so it had to be Stephenville on Newfoundland. on then to Navy Norfolk. Big reception and party and visit to base and operations. Our next port of call was Guantamino Bay. Lovely weather by now, and I was given a trip in a Blimp. Large comfortable control cabin with an outside balcony. The engineer could work on the engines from this balcony. The Captain even let me have a go and it was remarkably manoeuvrable for such a large vehicle, though in a headwind it wouldn't make
much progress and the "landing" was very complicated and needed a lot of ground crew. After several days we continued to Key West and another reception and party. Also a game fishing trip with the Admiral in his splendid "barge" though I don't think that was what he called it.
Our next stop was Navy Jacksonville and it's Hurricane Hunter Constellations.
At all these bases we were treated right royally. The people were very interested in our Shackletons and the equipment we carried and we were shown everything on the American bases. Treated as nationals really.
Our last base in the U.S. Was Brunswick, Maine with their Mariner and Marlin flying boats. We were cleared from Jacksonville at 19,000 feet. As we didn,t carry oxygen we had to decline! They eventually cleared us at 5,000 feet so it was a real sightseeing run to Brunswick and another great welcome. I,m running out of battery. Will continue later.
much progress and the "landing" was very complicated and needed a lot of ground crew. After several days we continued to Key West and another reception and party. Also a game fishing trip with the Admiral in his splendid "barge" though I don't think that was what he called it.
Our next stop was Navy Jacksonville and it's Hurricane Hunter Constellations.
At all these bases we were treated right royally. The people were very interested in our Shackletons and the equipment we carried and we were shown everything on the American bases. Treated as nationals really.
Our last base in the U.S. Was Brunswick, Maine with their Mariner and Marlin flying boats. We were cleared from Jacksonville at 19,000 feet. As we didn,t carry oxygen we had to decline! They eventually cleared us at 5,000 feet so it was a real sightseeing run to Brunswick and another great welcome. I,m running out of battery. Will continue later.
Danny42C
I have no idea, but think there are experts around here who will come up with an answer.
Meanwhile here are the exhaust stubs seen from another angle from a photo I've posted earlier.
what was the idea of those weird shaped exhaust stacks (?) sticking up out of the engine cowlings
Meanwhile here are the exhaust stubs seen from another angle from a photo I've posted earlier.