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Civil airspace infringements

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Civil airspace infringements

Old 26th Mar 2008, 14:57
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Civil airspace infringements

I am a civilian Atco,and I have just witnessed 2 separate Class D CTA infringements by the military.The first required avoiding action with a A319.This is a common occurance around the Aberdeen CTA/CTR.I am curious to how military pilots regard this unprofessional flying.Is it a jolly old thing round the subsidised beer in the mess,or is the book thrown at these pilots for endangering the travelling public.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 15:21
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Sounds like some journo scaremongering. Infringing class D airspace, whilst avoidable and not a good thing to do, it does not necessarily mean that the crew are unprofessional nor does is mean that all civilian air passengers are going to die!!!!


ATCO or not, ever thought about a selling your 'scare' story to the sun of how reckless RAF pilots are?

Last edited by Door Slider; 26th Mar 2008 at 17:34.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 15:31
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Did they have a star on the sides? Bombs under the wings? A manic looking gentlemen of swarthy appearance chanting, sweating and wearing lots of layers?

No?

Well count yourself bloody lucky then.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 16:26
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Throw a Dyce,

if you have an issue, go through the proper channels. Kicking off on PPRuNe will not muster the response you are looking for.

Ultimately, the guys are working hard & any infringements are accidental. I can assure you that as FCs we give the crews plenty of heads up when they push close to controlled airspace & 99 times out of 100, they turn away in good time. If they don't, it's usually because the guys are newbies and are still learning how to fly the a/c, use the kit, blink and breathe at the same time or, an ex F3 mate now on Typhoons who is only now realising just how much work his back seater used to do for him!
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 16:34
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Angry Petty fool

Oh how I wish we had you in the Stan, then you would get a perspective on your small, petty life. Your 30 MPH Daewoo Matiz never does anything by mistake. I bet!!!
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:01
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could you quantify "common occurance"
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:05
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Subsidised beer - which Mess is that in??
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:09
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2Planks, I was thinking the same thing!
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:16
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Subsidised beer - which Mess is that in??
The mess is on the same base as the free housing that all civvies think all Service people get
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:25
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throw a dyce

If you are what you claim to be....

I have just witnessed infringement of the PPRuNe website by someone who should have known better. The PROFESSIONAL thing for the controller to do would be to go through the proper channels, as Pure Pursuit suggests. Of course this would require you to stick to facts and have some balls ... oh and actually do some work instead of bleating on here!

The last CivATCO to submit an AIR(C) on my watch turned out to be talking utter bolleux - having seen a Typhoon heading towards, but well above, his aircraft, the ATCO concerned took his eye off the ball and when he next looked the Typhoon was below the ac on the other side. His conclusion was that the Typhoon must have infringed separation. A rapid review of the 'tapes' showed that the Typhoon had descended so quickly that it had been outside 5000' before it even reached 10nm from the civ ac. Yes it was a bit embarassing for the CIV ATCO, BUT at least it brought the issue out into the open and meant everyone involved learnt from it.

If you think your way works best, I would suggest you need to visit your training officer to have a chat about Functional Safety Management.

Oh and by the way, didn't you get into the RAF? Your attitiude, and the comment about the 'subsidised beer' just shows you have a chip on your shoulder - [email protected]

Sorry, to everyone else, I bit there didn't I?

STH
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:26
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Originally Posted by throw a dyce
Is it a jolly old thing round the subsidised beer in the mess...
Not that you've come here with any prejudices, preconceptions or axes to grind or anything

Edit- Was obviously typing this at the same time as Sir Toppam.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:26
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Free housing, subsidised beer, free food and no tax.....

We've never had it so good.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:40
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Free housing, subsidised beer, free food and no tax.....
You forgot the free overseas travel to interesting places that tourists can't get to....
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 17:59
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No AA,

I don't think he intended to include the actuality of military life in his list of Joe Public's perception of what we really get


MadMark!!!
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 18:05
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Thats the one for me, i'm off, Oh I am but at least I don't have to pay.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 19:00
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TAD, maybe a liaison trip to Lossie would allow you to discuss in a more constructive fashion.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 19:51
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I am certainly no jurno.Civil ATCO with 28 years experience and never even tried to get into the RAF.Not my cup of tea .
I did the trace action on these pilots.They were not from QS,or QL.The incident is being processed through proper channels yet again.If the radar controller had not taken avoiding action,then there would have been an airprox.We have had liasion with local military units in the past,but how many years of infringements does it take.
The ''reaction'' is what I expected.Having had a file of past zone infringements from the military about 3 inches thick,then it's pretty clear it doesn't seem to make any difference.Well we will keep filing if the military come into Aberdeen Controlled Airspace without clearance,R/T or listening until YOU get the message.I just hope there is no mid-air in the meantime.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 19:57
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Mr Dyce

Just how many of those 28 years experience were spent operating fast jets?
Oh that's right.
Stick to talking about things you DO have a clue about.
You are doing yourself and your colleagues no favours by bleating in such a manner on here!
BV
I was going to write some things that were far more derogatory, but my damned inner-monologue kicked in just in the nick of time!
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 19:59
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Throw a wobbly

I am a civilian Atco
Good for you

I have just witnessed 2 separate Class D CTA infringements by the military
OK, so are you filing an airprox? or just writing antagonistic threads on a public forum??

This is a common occurance around the Aberdeen CTA/CTR
Is that like an occurrence, just less often? Come on then, give us dates and tail numbers.........

I am curious to how military pilots regard this unprofessional flying
I bet you are, I suspect that you aren't a journo as you can't spell, so you must be who you say you are, so why don't you pick up the phone and speak to someone about it, rather than winge on here, maybe then you will get a serious answer to your 'curiosity'.

Is it a jolly old thing round the subsidised beer in the mess,
hmmmm, words fail me

Damn it I bit too, however, if you look at the other posts from this bll nd , it is pretty true to form.
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Old 26th Mar 2008, 20:07
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If the radar controller had not taken avoiding action
Ducked under the desk did he?
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