Iranian Patrol boats threaten US Warships
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Not to be too harsh on the Royal Navy, they were lifted from a couple of lightly armed rigid-hulled inflatable boats, having left the saftety of their BGT (Big Gray Thing). At least the US Navy remembered that size does matter where it counts, and stayed in their BGTs while being threatened by MyDinnerJacket's latest would be Martyrs, although you can be sure if any of those vessel commanders had felt the threat warranted it, they would have taken the appropriate local action and sorted the politics out later - just as it should be.
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I did hear an American on the radio this morning suggest that possibly they were getting as close as possible to guage a response, as the Americans did themselves during the Cold War........I'll go looking for it....
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Razor....
....to the incident involving Iranian Fast Attack boats and USN Warships
The statements and local newspaper reporting of this incident quotes the US Army officers as only describing them as '...five Iranian speedboats' and that incident occurred up north of us in the infamous Straight of Hormuz, which has been the epicenter of many incidents of this nature.
Of note the threatening manoeuvres described by the US reports involved 'dropping boxes in the water in front of the US ships Would probably more than likely be attributed to the fact that this seaway is also a notoriously busy smuggling laneway between Iran and UAE and they were madly throwing overboard their stash of Marlborough ciggy's, satellite TV antennas and stash of Playboys for fear of being intercepted by the 'big grey official looking Navy boats'. By the way the Iranians drop of Caviar and carpets in return for these 'illicit items' under the current Iranian regime
The whole thing is, as to be expected, been completely blown our of proportion (not the water at least which was the case previously!!
)
The statements and local newspaper reporting of this incident quotes the US Army officers as only describing them as '...five Iranian speedboats' and that incident occurred up north of us in the infamous Straight of Hormuz, which has been the epicenter of many incidents of this nature.
Of note the threatening manoeuvres described by the US reports involved 'dropping boxes in the water in front of the US ships Would probably more than likely be attributed to the fact that this seaway is also a notoriously busy smuggling laneway between Iran and UAE and they were madly throwing overboard their stash of Marlborough ciggy's, satellite TV antennas and stash of Playboys for fear of being intercepted by the 'big grey official looking Navy boats'. By the way the Iranians drop of Caviar and carpets in return for these 'illicit items' under the current Iranian regime
The whole thing is, as to be expected, been completely blown our of proportion (not the water at least which was the case previously!!
)
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I think Fox3's version of events is probably the more accurate. Someone's already referred to the Gulf of Tonking (non)"incident", which was the main pretext for the US mainstream ground troops going in to Vietnam, and it would be all too easy for someone to trigger a major incident either in error or on purpose in the very crowded waters of the Straits of Hormouz in a fit of deja vu.
Reference the smugglers: anyone in a position to get themselves up to Kashab (well worth doing - the fiorjd tour and the dolphins, especially at this time of the year, is fabulous), should go to the harbour (or even better, to the headland to the west of the port) in the early evening and watch true free enterprise in action. The smugglers' long boat fleet, both in number of boats and size of individual payloads, is an impressive sight, and, as they set out every evening, resemble a mini spectactor's fleet at the start of the Sydney-Hobart yacht race.
Pity the poor USN ship that was unfortunate enough to be passing through the Straits at that particular time of (every) evening - its crew could be forgiven for thinking Mr Dinnerjacket had sent the whole Iranian Navy out en masse (and at full power) to get 'em!
Reference the smugglers: anyone in a position to get themselves up to Kashab (well worth doing - the fiorjd tour and the dolphins, especially at this time of the year, is fabulous), should go to the harbour (or even better, to the headland to the west of the port) in the early evening and watch true free enterprise in action. The smugglers' long boat fleet, both in number of boats and size of individual payloads, is an impressive sight, and, as they set out every evening, resemble a mini spectactor's fleet at the start of the Sydney-Hobart yacht race.
Pity the poor USN ship that was unfortunate enough to be passing through the Straits at that particular time of (every) evening - its crew could be forgiven for thinking Mr Dinnerjacket had sent the whole Iranian Navy out en masse (and at full power) to get 'em!
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Fair point West, which is why I was surprised to read that the boats had been allowed to get within 200yds of the US Navy. I wonder if th emain gun could depress enough to hit it? I didn't think modern warships had much in the way of secondary armament, unless they had Phalanx, would they have much more than a broadside of squids with M-16's?
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Most major RN and USN warships have now got the "Minigun" capability as well as GPMG's.
I saw somewhere a video of a RN Warship setting up a minigun on the side as well as pintle mounted GPMG's. Even the Ocean survey vessels etc have them fitted.
Also the RN have the Oerlikon cannon (30mm i think?) still for close in targets.
Didn't the USN use a minigun etc on the Somalians? I seem to remember they did. Of course a small boat isn't going to last very long with that amount of metal being thrown at it.
I saw somewhere a video of a RN Warship setting up a minigun on the side as well as pintle mounted GPMG's. Even the Ocean survey vessels etc have them fitted.
Also the RN have the Oerlikon cannon (30mm i think?) still for close in targets.
Didn't the USN use a minigun etc on the Somalians? I seem to remember they did. Of course a small boat isn't going to last very long with that amount of metal being thrown at it.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Iran Denies Threat Against U.S.
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Iran on Jan. 8 rejected U.S. charges that its naval forces threatened to blow up American ships in the Strait of Hormuz, amid renewed tensions ahead of U.S. President George W. Bush’s visit to the region.
U.S. defense officials said five speedboats from the naval forces of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards menaced three U.S. warships in the strategic waterway on Sunday, radioing a threat to blow them up. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice described the incident as "provocative" and "dangerous" amid fears such an encounter could spark a major confrontation between the two foes.
But Iranian officials expressed bewilderment over the U.S. version of events, saying the encounter was a routine question of identification that ended with nothing special to report. "What happened between the Guards and foreign vessels was an ordinary identification," Ali Reza Tangsiri, commander of the Guards naval forces in the region, told the Mehr news agency. "No special engagement took place between the Guards and the foreign side," he said, adding that the Guards’ naval forces had a right to monitor and identify "any vessel entering Persian Gulf waters" to the northwest.
State television quoted an unnamed Guards source in the region as saying: "No threatening message was transmitted."...............
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Iran on Jan. 8 rejected U.S. charges that its naval forces threatened to blow up American ships in the Strait of Hormuz, amid renewed tensions ahead of U.S. President George W. Bush’s visit to the region.
U.S. defense officials said five speedboats from the naval forces of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards menaced three U.S. warships in the strategic waterway on Sunday, radioing a threat to blow them up. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice described the incident as "provocative" and "dangerous" amid fears such an encounter could spark a major confrontation between the two foes.
But Iranian officials expressed bewilderment over the U.S. version of events, saying the encounter was a routine question of identification that ended with nothing special to report. "What happened between the Guards and foreign vessels was an ordinary identification," Ali Reza Tangsiri, commander of the Guards naval forces in the region, told the Mehr news agency. "No special engagement took place between the Guards and the foreign side," he said, adding that the Guards’ naval forces had a right to monitor and identify "any vessel entering Persian Gulf waters" to the northwest.
State television quoted an unnamed Guards source in the region as saying: "No threatening message was transmitted."...............
Most major RN and USN warships have now got the "Minigun" capability as well as GPMG's.
I saw somewhere a video of a RN Warship setting up a minigun on the side as well as pintle mounted GPMG's. Even the Ocean survey vessels etc have them fitted.
Also the RN have the Oerlikon cannon (30mm i think?) still for close in targets.
Didn't the USN use a minigun etc on the Somalians? I seem to remember they did. Of course a small boat isn't going to last very long with that amount of metal being thrown at it.
I saw somewhere a video of a RN Warship setting up a minigun on the side as well as pintle mounted GPMG's. Even the Ocean survey vessels etc have them fitted.
Also the RN have the Oerlikon cannon (30mm i think?) still for close in targets.
Didn't the USN use a minigun etc on the Somalians? I seem to remember they did. Of course a small boat isn't going to last very long with that amount of metal being thrown at it.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=17d_1199775322
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brickhistory, er, not yank bashing or suchlike, just making an observation that history as an unfortunate tendancy to repeat itself, especially with two countries with " previous convictions",shall we say!!
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Gulf of Tonkin - declassified USA report
Re Mr Fish's post. The USA has released a History of American SIGINT and the Vietnam War which mentions that the Gulf of Tonkin attack and shows that not only is it not true, as Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara told Congress, that the evidence of an attack was "unimpeachable," but that to the contrary, a review of the classified signals intelligence proves that "no attack happened that night."
Just for clarity there were supposedly two attacks on the Maddox.
The first, on 2 Aug 64, certainly happened (General Giap acknowledged this, and he doesn't exactly count as a pro-US source) , and may, stress may) have been enough to trigger retaliatory action and get the TGR anyway. That's a matter for debate, but there is little doubt that there was a confrontation between Maddox and Turner Joy and NV PT boats that night.
The supposed 2nd attack is the one that didn't happen - something that was known and accepted within parts of the USN at the time, since the F-8 and A-1 drivers sent to provide support against the 2nd attack spent their time trying to find enemy PT boats but couldn't. US Naval Aviators were expressing doubts about the 2nd attack from the early morning of 5 August 1964, and the consensus at the time was that the crew on watch on the Maddox were jumpy after the 2nd August, and a series of c*ck-ups led to the crew believing (genuinely) that they were under attack. This was then exploited by LBJ's administration to reinforce efforts to gain approval for the executive's actions in Vietnam in response.
The first, on 2 Aug 64, certainly happened (General Giap acknowledged this, and he doesn't exactly count as a pro-US source) , and may, stress may) have been enough to trigger retaliatory action and get the TGR anyway. That's a matter for debate, but there is little doubt that there was a confrontation between Maddox and Turner Joy and NV PT boats that night.
The supposed 2nd attack is the one that didn't happen - something that was known and accepted within parts of the USN at the time, since the F-8 and A-1 drivers sent to provide support against the 2nd attack spent their time trying to find enemy PT boats but couldn't. US Naval Aviators were expressing doubts about the 2nd attack from the early morning of 5 August 1964, and the consensus at the time was that the crew on watch on the Maddox were jumpy after the 2nd August, and a series of c*ck-ups led to the crew believing (genuinely) that they were under attack. This was then exploited by LBJ's administration to reinforce efforts to gain approval for the executive's actions in Vietnam in response.
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Demo here, although the target splashes a bit close for comfort;
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=17d_1199775322
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I was on about that they actually have 7.62 miniguns on RN and USN Warships now. The same type fitted to the Chinook etc. Makes a right mess of a small boat in a few seconds....HMS Scott and other survey vessels have the 7.62 fitted as do FFG's and DDG's for secondary anti-surface...
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And the threatening radio messages from the Iranian boats?
i suppose those are just more yankee lies to try to justify a war, eh?
Sorry, your explanation doesn't jive with boats maneuvering between the USN ships, not "trying to get away"... or are those more exaggerations?
i suppose those are just more yankee lies to try to justify a war, eh?
Sorry, your explanation doesn't jive with boats maneuvering between the USN ships, not "trying to get away"... or are those more exaggerations?
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More like this
MK38 Mod 2 25mm stabilized gun as fitted on 2 of the three US Navy ships involved...for close in.
http://www.defencetalk.com/military_...2_20060901.php
http://www.defencetalk.com/military_...2_20060901.php
