R.I.P Skyhawks
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Escapac Ejection Seat
Some history / info here:
http://www.ejectionsite.com/escapacfr.htm
"...The Skyhawk used several different Escapacs over the years and each of the seats was an improved version of the prior version. Some other changes involved the catapult and rocket, the parachute, as well as canopy breakers and jettison systems...."
"Designation - Aircraft
1 - A-4A, B, C,
IC-3 - A-4F, TA-4F, and SUBS
IF-3 - A-4F & TA-4
IG-3 - A-4F, TA-4F & SUBS
http://www.ejectionsite.com/escapacfr.htm
"...The Skyhawk used several different Escapacs over the years and each of the seats was an improved version of the prior version. Some other changes involved the catapult and rocket, the parachute, as well as canopy breakers and jettison systems...."
"Designation - Aircraft
1 - A-4A, B, C,
IC-3 - A-4F, TA-4F, and SUBS
IF-3 - A-4F & TA-4
IG-3 - A-4F, TA-4F & SUBS
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 17th Aug 2012 at 01:46.
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Thanks Brian, hope you go well. [Check out the helo section in 4.4GB PDF!] 
Way back on 7th Sept 2008 on this thread 'Wessex19' (& later 'Trojan1981') was wishing for more Skyhawks at FAAM.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...ml#post4378124
Anyhoo now 'old' news but ex TA4G 880 is back at FAAM in two tone authentic camo colours with a No.2 Sqdn RNZAF tag on tail.
SEARCH term 'Skyhawk' (without quotes) at URL below:
Welcome to FotoWeb 7.0
Click thumbnail for a bigga one:
Way back on 7th Sept 2008 on this thread 'Wessex19' (& later 'Trojan1981') was wishing for more Skyhawks at FAAM.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...ml#post4378124
Anyhoo now 'old' news but ex TA4G 880 is back at FAAM in two tone authentic camo colours with a No.2 Sqdn RNZAF tag on tail.
SEARCH term 'Skyhawk' (without quotes) at URL below:
Welcome to FotoWeb 7.0
Click thumbnail for a bigga one:
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 17th Aug 2012 at 06:09.
Quote:
Sinbad you are a font of Skyhawk knowledge
He was a driver of same after all.
Nice shot Sinbad!
Last edited by Trojan1981; 17th Aug 2012 at 06:12.
Navaleye
The Escapac seat fitted to the A-4 was an innovative seat for its time, with a ballistic spreader to speed inflation of the parachute canopy to aid low and slow ejections before the advent of zero/zero seats.
In my time with the USN 78-81, I was unaware of any concern over the seat, although a USMC test pilot who ejected at high speed over the Chesapeake Bay did suffer bad injuries - but survived!
In my time with the USN 78-81, I was unaware of any concern over the seat, although a USMC test pilot who ejected at high speed over the Chesapeake Bay did suffer bad injuries - but survived!
Nice pic of the Skyhawk.
Note they got the designation wrong. TA4-G it is not but rather TA-4G......
I was CAG SATCO when the last two A-4's fell off the front of the Canoe....The CO and the Midn.....
Note they got the designation wrong. TA4-G it is not but rather TA-4G......
I was CAG SATCO when the last two A-4's fell off the front of the Canoe....The CO and the Midn.....
Last edited by TBM-Legend; 17th Aug 2012 at 08:10.
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HehHeh SATCO I'll have to look up who youse is from the recent Navy List releases at the RAN Hysterical Pubs Website. I see wrongly named stuff all the time. By way of explanation back in dem days, having only mechanical typewriters to bash upon, often hyphens were omitted. And anyway the A4G/TA4G were known as such. So bugga PCness I still call 'em dat.
Main reason why the dreaded 4.4GB PDF was started (along with smaller pubs for youse edification) was said incorrect info on the infant web all those years ago now. I quickly found that mistakes are not corrected but good luck with getting someone to correct anything. I could go on and on but will stop there...
At least I think the current FAAM does not list the modified A-4B (currently on display as an A4G) as a TA-4B. This is correct in one sense but not in a more common sense sense. The 'trainer' T was added to the A-4B momentarily to enable them to be superceded by new operational Skyhawks back in those ancient days. T is for Trainer so these single seater Bs were 'trainers for a day' (so to speak).
BTW here is a punchy extract from VF-805 (withorwithouthyphen I don't recall guv)
Squadron Diary re 885 loss:
Click for Pic:
And Click for the Video:
Main reason why the dreaded 4.4GB PDF was started (along with smaller pubs for youse edification) was said incorrect info on the infant web all those years ago now. I quickly found that mistakes are not corrected but good luck with getting someone to correct anything. I could go on and on but will stop there...
At least I think the current FAAM does not list the modified A-4B (currently on display as an A4G) as a TA-4B. This is correct in one sense but not in a more common sense sense. The 'trainer' T was added to the A-4B momentarily to enable them to be superceded by new operational Skyhawks back in those ancient days. T is for Trainer so these single seater Bs were 'trainers for a day' (so to speak).
BTW here is a punchy extract from VF-805 (withorwithouthyphen I don't recall guv)
Squadron Diary re 885 loss:Click for Pic:
And Click for the Video:
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 17th Aug 2012 at 08:52.
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'BomberH' there was a time in the 1980s when it was discovered some (a half dozen or less) Escapac ejection seat tubes had been manufactured without the tube being drilled out. Story here:
a4-glider | A-4 Skyhawk Association
"...Another Postscript; As I was going through my relight procedures and glider training at Cecil, over at Pensacola, the Paint and Return facility (PAR) or SDLM folks were taking a A-4F out on an ‘acceptance flight’. The A/C didn’t make it back. The J52 P408 engine stopped for some reason, and the acceptance pilot tried to eject and the seat didn’t work and the results were fatal. The wrecked A4 was shallow enough that it was salvaged. They found the pilot still in the seat with the canopy gone. Seems the SS steel tube that runs from the seat initiator to the rocket motor wasn’t a hollow tube. The middle section was blocked, not drilled out. So for this test pilot, the canopy fired but the seat didn’t. Ouch.
NavAirSysCom checked the rest of the A-4 fleet and found 5 more A-4’s with the blocked seat rocket initiator tubes. Yep, you guessed it. MB 12 was one. Had I once looked at the fuel gage and saw zero, I would have ejected. The canopy would have come off and the seat would have stayed in the Aircraft. I wouldn’t have made the end of the runway and the wreckage would have burned...."
For those interested this incompletely drilled tube may have been resposible for Ralph being unable to eject from 879 (in 1974) but we will never know. This was not an issue for the RAN FAA by mid 1984, I guess the Kiwis checked it out etc.
a4-glider | A-4 Skyhawk Association
"...Another Postscript; As I was going through my relight procedures and glider training at Cecil, over at Pensacola, the Paint and Return facility (PAR) or SDLM folks were taking a A-4F out on an ‘acceptance flight’. The A/C didn’t make it back. The J52 P408 engine stopped for some reason, and the acceptance pilot tried to eject and the seat didn’t work and the results were fatal. The wrecked A4 was shallow enough that it was salvaged. They found the pilot still in the seat with the canopy gone. Seems the SS steel tube that runs from the seat initiator to the rocket motor wasn’t a hollow tube. The middle section was blocked, not drilled out. So for this test pilot, the canopy fired but the seat didn’t. Ouch.
NavAirSysCom checked the rest of the A-4 fleet and found 5 more A-4’s with the blocked seat rocket initiator tubes. Yep, you guessed it. MB 12 was one. Had I once looked at the fuel gage and saw zero, I would have ejected. The canopy would have come off and the seat would have stayed in the Aircraft. I wouldn’t have made the end of the runway and the wreckage would have burned...."
For those interested this incompletely drilled tube may have been resposible for Ralph being unable to eject from 879 (in 1974) but we will never know. This was not an issue for the RAN FAA by mid 1984, I guess the Kiwis checked it out etc.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 17th Aug 2012 at 09:06.
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My Escapac IG3 certainly hurt when it went off...and that was only just a little bit less than when the ballistic spreader fired. The seat was an original Zero/Zero seat and it had many problems due to its antiquity. In my view, the rate of acceleration from the rocket coupled to the instant deceleration from the ballistic spreader was close to a fatal mix in any circumstance.
Having flown both types, given the choice of cockpit in an "A4 vs SHAR knife fight" I would choose the SHAR every time. Even with the FRS1, the radar and air to air weapons aiming system was superior in all respects. And the thrust advantage with the Sea Jet was enough to counteract any turn rate advantage the lower wing-loaded A4 might have felt.
NB: I never flew an A4M, but am fairly sure they didn't have a radar. Entering a fight without a radar is like being blind in a room full of enemies who can see.
Having flown both types, given the choice of cockpit in an "A4 vs SHAR knife fight" I would choose the SHAR every time. Even with the FRS1, the radar and air to air weapons aiming system was superior in all respects. And the thrust advantage with the Sea Jet was enough to counteract any turn rate advantage the lower wing-loaded A4 might have felt.
NB: I never flew an A4M, but am fairly sure they didn't have a radar. Entering a fight without a radar is like being blind in a room full of enemies who can see.
Well DB, IT CT was the first ejectee to use the ballistic spreader. It crocked his back I believe.
But you used what you had, and I would have taken on an FSR1, but after I had selectively jettisoned stores!!!
3W
But you used what you had, and I would have taken on an FSR1, but after I had selectively jettisoned stores!!!
3W
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875 A4G Ejection Frames Video
Now that 'TBM-LegEnd' has mentioned the CO here is a video of still photos - view from the 'goofers' platform fwd - series was taken by Rick Mechan RAN with an Instamatic camera - showing the loss of A4G 875 with CO VF-805 LCDR Clive Blennerhassett ejecting successfully due to engine failure immediately/during a normal catapult from HMAS Melbourne.
And thank goodness the Escapac saved all those who used it in dire circumstances, despite any other misgivings. There is one ex-A4G chap who has done SHAR & TA4G who may be able to comment on the violence of both ejection experiences?
And thank goodness the Escapac saved all those who used it in dire circumstances, despite any other misgivings. There is one ex-A4G chap who has done SHAR & TA4G who may be able to comment on the violence of both ejection experiences?
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 17th Aug 2012 at 19:53.
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Well, if you're going to cheat and use radar..............................
I believe there is no such thing as cheating in combat. It reminds me of Sean Connery's famous line in "The Untouchables" where he made the point quite clearly that one shouldn't pitch up to a gunfight carrying only a knife. Further, the point was very firmly reinforced by the very next scene in the film. I loved the Skyhawk. But let's remember what it was from the very beginning and throughout its long and successful service life. It was an attack platform, designed to carry bombs and drop them on things. It was never intended to be an air to air platform in modern radar saturated battle space.
Hey three wire! Selective stores jettison was not a unique A4 feature...
BTW, Spazsinbad is right. In RAN service the ESCAPAC did save everyone who used it, and I am certainly grateful for that...even if slightly shorter than I might otherwise have been
So the release of my empty RP pod was a mistake then. (Yep - it thought it was a dumb bomb!)
You always gotta have a concealed weapon, the shiv up your sleeve, or the combat knife in your boot, or the extra AIM9!
875 was my airplane. I always thought she was mistreated by a Kiwi in Townsville. I am glad she had an honourable discharge.
3W
You always gotta have a concealed weapon, the shiv up your sleeve, or the combat knife in your boot, or the extra AIM9!
875 was my airplane. I always thought she was mistreated by a Kiwi in Townsville. I am glad she had an honourable discharge.
3W
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HeeHee, dose frickin' store switches - so easy to reach - so easy to see - under G or not - actually prolly easier to see with head down, groaning! I had the honour to drop an empty tank (spiralled nicely onto the range according to a fellow follower [Hammo]) and I sheepishly returned to NAS to front the CO almost - then an instructor on next sortie, soon as, dropped an empty RP pod! What a nice chap was Ezza. End of - no fronting - giggles all round, youse naughty chaps. A taxiing accident and store dropping was a hanging offence - most of the time. 
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'3wire' what was mistreatment by Kiwi of 875 in Townsville? Do you mean 877? Anyway the latest version of the 4.4GB PDF is now at SpazSinbad page on SkyDrive. The other website is temporarily not available for uploads it seems.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=cbcd6...340707E6%21298
OR
http://alturl.com/x4ica (Short URL Forwarding for above long URL)
Now available at www.a4ghistory.com:
http://www.a4ghistory.com/A4G-FAA_Sc...ppFINALv11.pdf [4.4GB]
Please 'right mouse click' to 'Save as...' or use a download manager, otherwise download will fail if left click allows Adobe Reader to download this large file.
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=cbcd6...340707E6%21298
OR
http://alturl.com/x4ica (Short URL Forwarding for above long URL)
Now available at www.a4ghistory.com:
http://www.a4ghistory.com/A4G-FAA_Sc...ppFINALv11.pdf [4.4GB]
Please 'right mouse click' to 'Save as...' or use a download manager, otherwise download will fail if left click allows Adobe Reader to download this large file.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 18th Aug 2012 at 19:36.
The mistreatment involved a wet runway, crosswind and an Air Force landing. Aircraft promptly swung downwind and rolled on its back. Pilot was trapped for an hour or two until the Air Force lifted it enough to open the canopy.
Story related to me by an ex-Kiwi A4er now back in NZ.
3W
Story related to me by an ex-Kiwi A4er now back in NZ.
3W
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Ex-A4g 877 now NZ6218 was 'Dead Anted' in Townsville
Downloading the 4.4GB PDF or similar will reveal a host of stories about A4Gs in RAN FAA service and ex-A4Gs in RNZAF service. This is but one of dem... Pic to follow...
Quote from "The Phantom, Hornet & Skyhawk, in Australian Service" by Stewart Wilson, page 174
"In June 1985 NZ6118 (sic) [6218] (ex '877') flipped onto its back while landing in heavy rain at RAAF Townsville during a deployment to northern Australia.
Serious damage was sustained to the aircraft's tail, canopy, nose and other components and the aircraft was flown back to New Zealand in a C-130 Hercules. It remained in storage for nearly three years until April 1988 when the decision was made to repair it.
17,000 man hours and nearly two years later the Skyhawk was in the air again with a new tail section obtained from the US Navy, new wings and rebuilt aft fuselage, nose section and nosewheel. The Skyhawk was then upgraded under the Project Kahu programme."
&
Wings Over New Zealand - Kahu Hot Weather Trials - RAAF Tindal August 1990
"Wallsy [FLT LT Ian Walls] was stuck, upside down. He couldnt get the headknocker down (up?), so was hanging under a live seat wondering what was going to happen next! The crash fire guys eventually extracated him through the hole in the canopy that you can see..."
Click Pics:
Quote from "The Phantom, Hornet & Skyhawk, in Australian Service" by Stewart Wilson, page 174
"In June 1985 NZ6118 (sic) [6218] (ex '877') flipped onto its back while landing in heavy rain at RAAF Townsville during a deployment to northern Australia.
Serious damage was sustained to the aircraft's tail, canopy, nose and other components and the aircraft was flown back to New Zealand in a C-130 Hercules. It remained in storage for nearly three years until April 1988 when the decision was made to repair it.
17,000 man hours and nearly two years later the Skyhawk was in the air again with a new tail section obtained from the US Navy, new wings and rebuilt aft fuselage, nose section and nosewheel. The Skyhawk was then upgraded under the Project Kahu programme."
&
Wings Over New Zealand - Kahu Hot Weather Trials - RAAF Tindal August 1990
"Wallsy [FLT LT Ian Walls] was stuck, upside down. He couldnt get the headknocker down (up?), so was hanging under a live seat wondering what was going to happen next! The crash fire guys eventually extracated him through the hole in the canopy that you can see..."
Click Pics:
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 18th Aug 2012 at 20:45.