Air Eng rumour control?
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No 'returnees' at secret wiltshire base, other than the reservists. Whilst work has been started on the plan to take generic cse qual'd WSOps into trg, no dates or confirmation of green light yet. Ref: some earlier posts, not likely to take people already employed on other types/roles, kind of defeats the purpose, Cranditz studes only. Lots of people ready to PMA bash, but they can only go on the info provided (OOSD's etc), and their crystal ball can't predict peoples decisions at potential exit dates. Not trying to excuse all their faux pas, but it can't be easy for them either.
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Cheese,
Check the flying air-trafficker thread
Ex - NCO aircrew who resumed flying earlier this year.
Y_G
Check the flying air-trafficker thread
Ex - NCO aircrew who resumed flying earlier this year.
Y_G
Ref bashing PMA......
I am not a FE, but even I was of the opinion that the planned out of service dates, which PMA have always been working to, for the Nimrod R1 and E3-D are/were something like 2025.
Given the date when the FE school was closed, and the need for some FEs still in 2025, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that there was always going to be a problem - it is just the size of the problem that may be at issue.....
I am not a FE, but even I was of the opinion that the planned out of service dates, which PMA have always been working to, for the Nimrod R1 and E3-D are/were something like 2025.
Given the date when the FE school was closed, and the need for some FEs still in 2025, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that there was always going to be a problem - it is just the size of the problem that may be at issue.....
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ISK info (all factual):
mid/late 90's: 1 retired commissioned eng and 1 retired MEng - 5 yr PTRS, then commissioned eng given FTRS in Ops Support; finally retired in 2005. MEng extended in PTRS until Sep 07, but lost currency in summer of 2005. Hasn't flown in RAF since then.
At about the same time a FS eng was commissioned into Ops Spt branch.
early this decade - Sgt eng commissioned into grd eng branch, but then resigned and immediately returned to air eng as NCA
Early 2008: previously mentioned Ops Spt Flt Lt (was a FS eng) is planned to join a Nimrod long course.
All the above is fact.
Ed Set
mid/late 90's: 1 retired commissioned eng and 1 retired MEng - 5 yr PTRS, then commissioned eng given FTRS in Ops Support; finally retired in 2005. MEng extended in PTRS until Sep 07, but lost currency in summer of 2005. Hasn't flown in RAF since then.
At about the same time a FS eng was commissioned into Ops Spt branch.
early this decade - Sgt eng commissioned into grd eng branch, but then resigned and immediately returned to air eng as NCA
Early 2008: previously mentioned Ops Spt Flt Lt (was a FS eng) is planned to join a Nimrod long course.
All the above is fact.
Ed Set
Last edited by EdSet100; 2nd Dec 2007 at 23:40. Reason: spelling
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RAF Flight Engs
Currently the RAF flight Eng cadre is in hell of a mess, most of the tristar fleet has been grounded/ struggling through not having any currently fit/ healthy Engs. When are we finally going to learn to stop allowing some career officer to make a short term money saving decision and allowing them to descimate a whole branch.
The VC 10, tristar and K herc are around for a long time yet, so why don't we shut the training schools, yeah right?????
The VC 10, tristar and K herc are around for a long time yet, so why don't we shut the training schools, yeah right?????
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So gents, the upshot is this. Apart from the chap going on the long course at kinloss, nobody has heard of anybody else who has been offered the chance to come back from a job outside of their brevet (Ops Spt) or from civvy street.
A few Q's for you
1. As a whole are we as Eng's over or undermnanned? If so where?
2. Who gives a damn either way?
3. Who, if anybody, can do somethkng about it.
4. Whats being done about it?
A few Q's for you
1. As a whole are we as Eng's over or undermnanned? If so where?
2. Who gives a damn either way?
3. Who, if anybody, can do somethkng about it.
4. Whats being done about it?
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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Cheesy
1. Yes and No.
2. Absolutely no one.
3. See 2.
4. Nothing.
If the ex FS Air Eng now Ops support is who I think it is, he has been trying since day 31 at Cranwell to achieve it! Ex C130 ex FS inst AAITC? But surely he must be a Sqn Ldr by now or possibly even a Wg Cdr yes? That is what they were all promised 10 short years ago! Surely?
1. Yes and No.
2. Absolutely no one.
3. See 2.
4. Nothing.
If the ex FS Air Eng now Ops support is who I think it is, he has been trying since day 31 at Cranwell to achieve it! Ex C130 ex FS inst AAITC? But surely he must be a Sqn Ldr by now or possibly even a Wg Cdr yes? That is what they were all promised 10 short years ago! Surely?
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Back in the sky again???
Just joined up to this site, via a friend, and very amused to read about the mess the RAF is in regarding flight engineers. I started flying as air eng. on Argosy circa 1966for 5 yrs. then 5yrs on VC10 at BZN. Left to join GF, 1yr VC10 then 12 yrs Tristar. By now you will realise I am no spring chicken, but would love to get back flying. Where do I sign???
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GRINST - not completely correct. As far as I know most Tri* air engs are "currently fit/ healthy", about 15% uff/unavailable for op tasking. Little operational effect, if any, as the rest just work harder 
.
.
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At least we can all smile when the turd from PMA is out of his job (and back amongst his fellow crewman) and the new incumbant find that the said person has left him a marrow to sit on........Ouch
Apologies, you are absolutely right, this is not the place for that. Thanks for the wake up call!
Apologies, you are absolutely right, this is not the place for that. Thanks for the wake up call!
Last edited by cheesedoff; 4th Dec 2007 at 15:44.
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Air Engs -
I am aware that 2 x Ex ALM recently returned to ALM Branch from Ops Spt, who were going to resign commissions anyway to return to their previous ranks as ALM Crewmen. They are now both Cman leaders and doing well. Needs must and all that. Some in the branch winged about backdoor commissions but they are/were the ones who generally winge about everything anyway.
Cant see why if the Eng Branch is in such a state that this is not the way forward. I expect the Ops Spt branch would gladly let some of the Eng's back to you without much of a fight.
Hoops stress - ever thought that the Manpower strategy people might be strangling the chap you called a t*sser. There is more to ACOS manning than just one bloke who wants to say yes.
Cheesed off - you obviously have a vested interest in this, but why call the guy a turd, grow up chap.
Cant see why if the Eng Branch is in such a state that this is not the way forward. I expect the Ops Spt branch would gladly let some of the Eng's back to you without much of a fight.
Hoops stress - ever thought that the Manpower strategy people might be strangling the chap you called a t*sser. There is more to ACOS manning than just one bloke who wants to say yes.
Cheesed off - you obviously have a vested interest in this, but why call the guy a turd, grow up chap.
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PMA
I agree that the lack of planning goes hand in hand with the careers dept at PMA, but why oh why do all these changes have to happen with such little forethought.
How many more times will we see a trade or Sqn section 'dick*d' to provide an escape for these buffoons who cant plan ahead.
How many more times will we see a trade or Sqn section 'dick*d' to provide an escape for these buffoons who cant plan ahead.
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I know that I come in late to this thread mainly because I am too busy working to post threads But let me point out a few facts as this is my personel situation
Left just before the Twin Towers fell ( Bad Timing)
Had 2 good jobs to go to, Was promptly dropped like a hot potato
Spent 18 months finding any work that would pay the bills.
Phoned the then Desk Officer and begged to come back ( I left on very good terms Good Cat Top Job ect ect ) Was told I was good guy but No way Hosay NO Jobs
Phoned 2--3 times same reply, even applyed in writing to Cranditz
Have rattled the cage a few times same old story
Punch Line I am still flying on a civvi Licence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So as to recalls I would say No Chance
And for all you out there that moan and groan Life out side is no better
The HR manager told me when I asked about the future of the Arline
3, Yes 3 months that is the Future of XYZ Airlines!
What I would now do for a guaranteed job untill I was 55
Would then not have to keep the standby job going
Want to know more please write.
Left just before the Twin Towers fell ( Bad Timing)
Had 2 good jobs to go to, Was promptly dropped like a hot potato
Spent 18 months finding any work that would pay the bills.
Phoned the then Desk Officer and begged to come back ( I left on very good terms Good Cat Top Job ect ect ) Was told I was good guy but No way Hosay NO Jobs
Phoned 2--3 times same reply, even applyed in writing to Cranditz
Have rattled the cage a few times same old story
Punch Line I am still flying on a civvi Licence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So as to recalls I would say No Chance
And for all you out there that moan and groan Life out side is no better
The HR manager told me when I asked about the future of the Arline
3, Yes 3 months that is the Future of XYZ Airlines!
What I would now do for a guaranteed job untill I was 55
Would then not have to keep the standby job going
Want to know more please write.
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interested in yr comment grinst
Obviously you have good knowledge of the Tri* manning
Just to put the record straight, 1 long term sick due to ski accident awaiting NHS!!!, 1 with back problems awaiting NHS, another 2 that are now back flying both with back problems that got them both off the Nimrod fleet and 1 guy that is a bit limited in theatres due to an ongoing problem
How that is the whole of the A eng cadre i dont know
I know of no task that has been cancelled due to lack of an available A Eng, yep guys have had to work quite hard to cover and god forbid the trainers have been doing a lot of flying
BUT
its swings and roundabouts which section is the most limiting with manpower
have a look at how many pilots are off to the civvie world still
as everybody in the RAF we are overstretched and thats in all the sections and not just aircrew
as an aside 50-60 hrs a month is the normal for mostTri* crew
Obviously you have good knowledge of the Tri* manning
Just to put the record straight, 1 long term sick due to ski accident awaiting NHS!!!, 1 with back problems awaiting NHS, another 2 that are now back flying both with back problems that got them both off the Nimrod fleet and 1 guy that is a bit limited in theatres due to an ongoing problem
How that is the whole of the A eng cadre i dont know
I know of no task that has been cancelled due to lack of an available A Eng, yep guys have had to work quite hard to cover and god forbid the trainers have been doing a lot of flying
BUT
its swings and roundabouts which section is the most limiting with manpower
have a look at how many pilots are off to the civvie world still
as everybody in the RAF we are overstretched and thats in all the sections and not just aircrew
as an aside 50-60 hrs a month is the normal for mostTri* crew
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It was asked earlier, how PMA were still finding people to post to BZN etc, when nearly all fleets are undermanned (on paperwork, anyway). 14 Greens assertion of 50-60 hrs a month for Tri* guys is, I suspect, way above the average for other fleets (poss not VC10?), so surely PMA are just being sensible in matching manpower to tasking requirements. I cannot remember the last time that a manning review was undertaken, particularly one that was relevant to aircraft availability and tasking, rather than planned fleet size. The current PMA poster is an old colleague, and as has been pointed out to some of the more disgruntled participants, he cannot make everyone happy, and has to implement policy rather than preference! I suspect that their job is only going to get harder, as more guys take their option points, and wonder if the Nimrod BOI public perception of the state of our ageing aircraft will mean more personal pressure to leave?
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There has been an attempt to increase the crew ratio on the tri jet over the last few years
Trust me
A Eng manning has not been the problem with achieving the required figures
For the line guys 50 hrs a month average has been the norm for at least the last 10 years, its not a whinge just a comment
Not rrying to make an excuses and not trying to say we are doing more than everybody else
Trust me
A Eng manning has not been the problem with achieving the required figures
For the line guys 50 hrs a month average has been the norm for at least the last 10 years, its not a whinge just a comment
Not rrying to make an excuses and not trying to say we are doing more than everybody else
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SADDAMSLOVECHILD could have a point!
Air Engs -
I am aware that 2 x Ex ALM recently returned to ALM Branch from Ops Spt, who were going to resign commissions anyway to return to their previous ranks as ALM Crewmen. They are now both Cman leaders and doing well. Needs must and all that. Some in the branch winged about backdoor commissions but they are/were the ones who generally winge about everything anyway.
I am aware that 2 x Ex ALM recently returned to ALM Branch from Ops Spt, who were going to resign commissions anyway to return to their previous ranks as ALM Crewmen. They are now both Cman leaders and doing well. Needs must and all that. Some in the branch winged about backdoor commissions but they are/were the ones who generally winge about everything anyway.
The RAF could employ cpl/sgt technicians on this basis until the need for AEs was no longer required. No requirement for them to have a brevet; as long as they were medically fit and were suitably remunerated.
I suspect there would be some AEs that would winge at this idea, but as SADDAMSLOVECHILD points out, they are the ones who would generally winge about everything anyway.
Last edited by Sand4Gold; 5th Dec 2007 at 19:50. Reason: Sp error - its been a long day!?*
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AA
Perhaps you could show a few cooks around the hangar and give em a spanner to cure the shortage of techies too !!
14greens it's not impossible to take a short break and get back in is it? Guess you just have to be good enough. ;-)
as for 50-60 hrs a month......... Lightweights
Perhaps you could show a few cooks around the hangar and give em a spanner to cure the shortage of techies too !!
14greens it's not impossible to take a short break and get back in is it? Guess you just have to be good enough. ;-)
as for 50-60 hrs a month......... Lightweights
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Musical Jobs
FE Hoppy, Like your point:
No need to give them a spanner though, as long as they were medically fit and suitably renumerated.
Priceless!
CRPx Good!
Perhaps you could show a few cooks around the hangar and give em a spanner to cure the shortage of techies too !!
Priceless!
CRPx Good!