Air Eng rumour control?
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Air Eng rumour control?
Hello Ladies & Gentlemen,
The grapevine has it that at a secret Wilts airbase there is consideration being given to putting GE's in the Air Engineers seat because of a severe lack of Air Engineers in the system? (Harks back to a few years ago doesn't it)
Can anybody cast any light on this or is it just another rumour? Either way a curious situation we find ourselves in.
The grapevine has it that at a secret Wilts airbase there is consideration being given to putting GE's in the Air Engineers seat because of a severe lack of Air Engineers in the system? (Harks back to a few years ago doesn't it)
Can anybody cast any light on this or is it just another rumour? Either way a curious situation we find ourselves in.
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GE Flight Engineers!
That will never work. How the hell could the GE's then complain about the f***ing aircrew! 
(And yes I know they have AT's on the E3!)
(And yes I know they have AT's on the E3!)
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AIDU,
This must be close to a record......... completely off thread and developed into a slagging match by the second reply!
It does seem though that something needs to be done about the Air Eng situation. Waddington and Kinloss as well as Lyneham will need them for many more years.
For what it is worth, the ATs on E-3 are not, never have been, and never will be aircraft GEs.
Y_G
This must be close to a record......... completely off thread and developed into a slagging match by the second reply!
It does seem though that something needs to be done about the Air Eng situation. Waddington and Kinloss as well as Lyneham will need them for many more years.
For what it is worth, the ATs on E-3 are not, never have been, and never will be aircraft GEs.
Y_G
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This raised its head years ago. I think it was put to bed by the fact? that it is illegal to have flight deck crewmembers who havent passed an approved course of training. And as of 2 years ago, the RAF has no approved course of training for engineers. PMA wanted to post a rotary crewman straight onto an E-3 OCU, I think that one died a death. IF there is a problem with numbers, it is down to poor planning when they decided to kill the eng course, and poor management by peeing off those who were in the trade and have now left or are leaving.
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Mornin bwfg3 or should I say afternoon where you are?
There is indeed a legal issue with the placing of non qualified personnel into a Flt Deck crew seat. All crew must have completed a recognized/approved course of flying training and hold the appropriate license or military "Q" prior to being able to attend a type rating cse/OCU. Imagine BA taking ints GEs and putting them onto a type rating course without first being qualified to fly? JAA/ICAO would be very interested to hear about that one. As would the passengers/peeps down the back?
As bwfg3 states, this particular situation stems for the gross mis-management of the Air Engineer Cadre. It didn't take the brains of an Arch Bishop to realise that stopping Air Eng Trg "BEFORE" the older fleets replacements were introduced, was doomed to be a huge mistake and a pure cost cutting and career enhancing measure for someone. When has the service ever brought a new aircraft type into service on time? Let alone several types, A400/FSTA/MRA4(Nimrod 2000
) None of which have entered service on time or are likely to do so. We all know that these things slip to the right, they always do.
That doesn't mean that these fleets won't enter service at some point and indeed the Air Eng will eventually be phased out however, in the mean time we are left trying to find a suitable way forward in order to ensure that aircraft can be suitably manned by qualified and competent aircrew.
I suggest that we ignore the red faces of the policy makers and re start Air Eng Trg at Cranwell on the back of the new modular course. All the Air Eng lessons have been archived and and issues like the AEPT are not unresolvable.
Let's stop crisis managing this and throw e.g. these GEs through a proper course. The service has a competency problem at the moment on some fleets and the last thing we need is for a crew seat to be filled by a "switch flicker" who is unable to cross check and complement the other flight deck members.
Ginge
There is indeed a legal issue with the placing of non qualified personnel into a Flt Deck crew seat. All crew must have completed a recognized/approved course of flying training and hold the appropriate license or military "Q" prior to being able to attend a type rating cse/OCU. Imagine BA taking ints GEs and putting them onto a type rating course without first being qualified to fly? JAA/ICAO would be very interested to hear about that one. As would the passengers/peeps down the back?
As bwfg3 states, this particular situation stems for the gross mis-management of the Air Engineer Cadre. It didn't take the brains of an Arch Bishop to realise that stopping Air Eng Trg "BEFORE" the older fleets replacements were introduced, was doomed to be a huge mistake and a pure cost cutting and career enhancing measure for someone. When has the service ever brought a new aircraft type into service on time? Let alone several types, A400/FSTA/MRA4(Nimrod 2000
) None of which have entered service on time or are likely to do so. We all know that these things slip to the right, they always do.That doesn't mean that these fleets won't enter service at some point and indeed the Air Eng will eventually be phased out however, in the mean time we are left trying to find a suitable way forward in order to ensure that aircraft can be suitably manned by qualified and competent aircrew.
I suggest that we ignore the red faces of the policy makers and re start Air Eng Trg at Cranwell on the back of the new modular course. All the Air Eng lessons have been archived and and issues like the AEPT are not unresolvable.
Let's stop crisis managing this and throw e.g. these GEs through a proper course. The service has a competency problem at the moment on some fleets and the last thing we need is for a crew seat to be filled by a "switch flicker" who is unable to cross check and complement the other flight deck members.
Ginge
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Hello Ladies & Gentlemen,
The grapevine has it that at a secret Wilts airbase there is consideration being given to putting GE's in the Air Engineers seat because of a severe lack of Air Engineers in the system? (Harks back to a few years ago doesn't it)
Can anybody cast any light on this or is it just another rumour? Either way a curious situation we find ourselves in.
The grapevine has it that at a secret Wilts airbase there is consideration being given to putting GE's in the Air Engineers seat because of a severe lack of Air Engineers in the system? (Harks back to a few years ago doesn't it)
Can anybody cast any light on this or is it just another rumour? Either way a curious situation we find ourselves in.
I have no idea where you got this little chestnut from.
Nice rumour to start .... but misses one extremely salient point ....
The GE's section is nearly as badly undermanned as the Air Eng sections ..
so just where do these "new" bodies suddenly appear from ??
The GE's section is nearly as badly undermanned as the Air Eng sections ..
so just where do these "new" bodies suddenly appear from ??
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Dust off the cobwebs, get rid of the niff-naff that drove us out and bring back the "old and bold". I could do "circuits and bumps" as a job for my latter years, beats the office (although the "view's" better) - let you serving guys go to the Ops and use your UK time for family, not ticking boxes.
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Well they are obviously so short at the secret air base that they are posting people out to other types, we are getting 4 from the multi engine transport aircraft with cavernous hold. And I do believe at least 1 has gone north and at least 1 to the flying dishplate
So!!!
rumour control way off me thinks!
So!!!
rumour control way off me thinks!
Hi Hoppy......not even a first class ticket back would drag me back from here......however would consider the NZ Airforce for a couple of years though......nah that would mean having to get me hair cut!!!!!
Seriously though we saw this coming years ago as someone has already mentioned.....Just how many guys are left in the trade should have lost the leaving in droves mentality now that the flying jobs outside have fallen by however Hoppy and a few othershave found well paid ground inst jobs out there and good on them.
Seriously though we saw this coming years ago as someone has already mentioned.....Just how many guys are left in the trade should have lost the leaving in droves mentality now that the flying jobs outside have fallen by however Hoppy and a few othershave found well paid ground inst jobs out there and good on them.
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Ah, but in the good old days engine fitters used to fly on heavy aircraft when the number of engines rose above the number of hands the pilot had. The trouble was that they were losing too many skilled and valued groundcrew on operations. The solution was to invent the air engineer. Not for me to debate the relative worth of engine fitters and air engineers!
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I think it's fair to say that all branches of the NCA cadre are suffering. While it is probably true that the Eng branch are at point critique through lack of foresight, the question is does PMA manage any of our careers?
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OmegaV6
Obviously you get the loadie to do the GE's job, rope in a random mover to replace the loadie, and if you're also short of SVCs, stick a couple of pax in the doors as spotters and get the last one onboard to bring the chocks in with them!
N Joe
Obviously you get the loadie to do the GE's job, rope in a random mover to replace the loadie, and if you're also short of SVCs, stick a couple of pax in the doors as spotters and get the last one onboard to bring the chocks in with them!
N Joe
OmegaV6
Obviously you get the loadie to do the GE's job, rope in a random mover to replace the loadie, and if you're also short of SVCs, stick a couple of pax in the doors as spotters and get the last one onboard to bring the chocks in with them!
N Joe
Obviously you get the loadie to do the GE's job, rope in a random mover to replace the loadie, and if you're also short of SVCs, stick a couple of pax in the doors as spotters and get the last one onboard to bring the chocks in with them!
N Joe
a) OC Base Support Flt
b) OC Force Headquarters
c) OC C4I
whichever you choose, as you probably actually know what they mean/do (please tell me... I still haven't worked out what they are !! )
and if you find an "Eng Ldr" hiding... you win a flight in a Herc ... if we ever find a serviceable one and a crew to man it ....
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OV6
a) Is tht a real flt?
b) Wrong branch!
c) Do I look like a mobile phone salesman?!?!?!?!?
All I know is OC C4I doesn't actually have any "I" and most of his mail still goes to Coltishall - where OC 41 Sqn's post box used to be!
Had enough flights in hercs, but thanks for the offer.
N Joe
a) Is tht a real flt?
b) Wrong branch!
c) Do I look like a mobile phone salesman?!?!?!?!?
All I know is OC C4I doesn't actually have any "I" and most of his mail still goes to Coltishall - where OC 41 Sqn's post box used to be!
Had enough flights in hercs, but thanks for the offer.
N Joe