Meteor Accidents - 1953

[binbrook]

Engine-out Asymmetric

The light may have dawned in the early 50s, and asymmetric practice landings with an engine out may have been forbidden, but there were still QFIs who knew better. In 1956 the aptly-named Short Asymmetric Course at Worksop lasted 6 weeks and included about 25 Meteor hours, two-thirds of which were dual and of these 80% asymmetric. After establishing my crit speed (130+ish) my 'Sir' closed an HP cock almost every time I passed it, leaving me to totter round the circuit really 'on one'. Just before landing the Maestro would relight the dead engine, take control as I touched down, bring the rpm up as he rolled, hand back control, and close one HP cock or the other as I passed crit speed again. Made quite an impression on a young man.

[Quietplease]

Engine-out Asymmetric

Been there, done that, early 1957. Worksop, what a dump!
First flight, rudder pedals adjusted for over-centre geometric knee lock and firm grasp of both throttles to slow any attempt at retard. At about 125 knots HP cock ( which were out of view on rear cockpit wall) was shut. Never spent more than a couple of minutes on two after that. It was, after all, an asymmetric course. Made the Canberra seem a doddle.
We fresh-faced youths, just off Vampires, used to enjoy watching the oldies off Shacks and Hastings doing the jet refresher course. They could hardly climb down the side of a Mk7 and stagger back to the crew room.

[Danny42C]

Quietplease,

Same in '50 (Driffield) and '54 (Weston Zoyland). Nothing changes ! And I seem to remember that the HP and LP quadrants were together down at the bottom of the LH side of your seat (I could be wrong).

Happy days ! Danny.

[Atrix]

Last Meteor to be lost in 1953

I believe that a T7, WA654 may have been the last Meteor to be lost in 1953. This was taken up for an engine test by my father Flt Lt R.F. Fisher on New Year’s Eve 1953 at Manby. The a/c suffered an engine fire and he lost his life – although an Airman with him on an air experience flight was saved.
I’ve been searching for a photo of WA654 for some years without success.I have the MOD report on this incident and it is accessible at Kew – it makes interesting reading with regard to asymmetric flight characteristics and abandoning the T7 etc.

[JW411]

I have sent you a PM (Private Message) which might be helpful.

[Exnomad]

Meteor accidents

I did my NS 1951-53, started a pilot coursew but failed on Oxfords and became a NAV.
During my service, at least three of my intake were killed on Meteors, it seemed I was lucky to have failed.

[nzhills]

Coningsby meteor accident

Hi,

I'm the son of a crun, henry crun in this instance. Henry has departed the mortal world but I asked him to make an mp3 recording of his log books, talk me through the entries etc. I've clipped these to his memories of the accident the original poster described.

This'll be my first effort at putting an playing an mp3 here. Anyway, paste the link below into your browser to listen to 3 minutes of audio. I think Google drive will ask you to download the file. Please tell me if there are any difficulties.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?...0k&usp=sharing

Regards
Mark

[26er]

Getting away from the Meteor a bit, I remember a cunning mod to the Goblin fitted to our Vampire 5s at Tarrant Rushton (1953). Some aircraft had experienced trouble with the aneroid capsule of the barostat sticking resulting in constant rpm. At high altitude this would be at high rpm but the subsequent descent with an unresponsive "go lever" could be embarrassing. So a little hammer was attached to the barostat with a button on the right cockpit wall which when pressed would tap madly on the gubbins and hopefully free the offending bit. The engineers explained that it had never been a requirement on piston engines as the whole thing vibrated anyway.

[DODGYOLDFART]

Ah yes, the good old 1950's. Those were the days when BOE's always started out by assuming all accident's either were caused or contributed to by pilot error. This seemed to be particularly the case if the driver had got the chop. Just occasionally servicing was blamed but only very rarely a design or manufacturing malfunction.

[Bull at a Gate]

Nzhills, I am sorry to hear of your father's loss. I really enjoyed his posts which were both erudite and witty. I had noticed that he hadn't been posting much lately, either here or elsewhere and now I know why. He will be missed.

[LowObservable]

Those were the days when BOE's always started out by assuming all accident's either were caused or contributed to by pilot error.

That seems to be how V-22 accident investigations are still done.

[Actually]

Originally Posted by clunckdriver

Does anyone have information of a Biggin Hill Mark 8 which crashed in either 55 or 56? The pilot was F/O Coulston {spelling?} ejected but died from injuries in hospital, he had just been punished for low flying in a Vampire around the South coast of England, I belive this was his first jet flight since being given a rocket by the board, he was in charge of the RAF gliding club on the base, he was kind enough to bend the rules and let me fly with them although I was not in the RAF.The loss rate at the peak of the Cold War was pretty bad in Canada as well, one course I was on we lost eleven out of fourteen in two years, the combination of eighteen year old pilots, and the early jets {CF100s} and our climate made for some interesting times!

ROGER COULSTON'S crash is chronicled in the new up-dated edition of "Empire Of The Clouds", by James Hamilton-Paterson, just published in time for the RAF 100th anniversary. The author lived in Rectory Lane at the time and his mother was the duty anesthetist at Queen Mary's Hospital, Sidcup, that day. Quite a few pages are devoted to the subject and the rest of the book is worth reading as it overviews Britain's best years as an aircraft-producer; full of facts and humour. Wordery do a good price, post-free offer some of you may like to investigate! Please note it is the 2018 updated edition, not the earlier one.

[Treble one]

Originally Posted by Atrix

I believe that a T7, WA654 may have been the last Meteor to be lost in 1953. This was taken up for an engine test by my father Flt Lt R.F. Fisher on New Year’s Eve 1953 at Manby. The a/c suffered an engine fire and he lost his life – although an Airman with him on an air experience flight was saved.
I’ve been searching for a photo of WA654 for some years without success.I have the MOD report on this incident and it is accessible at Kew – it makes interesting reading with regard to asymmetric flight characteristics and abandoning the T7 etc.

A former Meteor pilot who I knew, with experience on several marks (including two seaters T7, NF versions IIRC) told me that the rumour going around at the time was if you pulled the jettison canopy handle when attempting to abandon the aircraft, that very heavy canopy had a very good chance of decapitating both occupants!

Not fun as of course no bang seats in the two seat marks....Indeed he and his 'Nav' had a pact that they wouldn't tell their wives that there were no Martin Baker facilities available (He had previously flown the F.8 where there were I believe). Their wives only found out by accident many years later.

[roving]

WF778 Gloster Meteor T7 d/d 05/04/1951, scr. 05/03/1958 at No.12 MU Kirkbride to H H Bushell & Co

This is the T7 613 Aux Air Squadron used in 1951 to convert from Spitfires to jets before chancing their lives in single seater Vampires (without bang seats). I am not sure if my dad was flying it or took the photo.

[Wander00]

I have been helping a friend with her Father's Record of Service as she could not decode the abbreviations. Interestingly after tours on 4 engine heavies he was posted to 231OCU, for Canberra training, which included time at Worksop on the assymetric course. He failed on jets, was returned to 4 engine heavies and his last RAF tour was as a Captain on Washingtons of 192 Sqn, where he won an AFC

[Mike Gallafent]

The high fatality rate in 1953 reflected lower standards of flight safety. Exercise Coronet (2nd TAF v, 4th TAF) took places without low flying limits as Germany was still divided into zones. Dog fighting at very low altitudes was very much a white knuckle experience (especially between hangars). It was understood that eleven aircrew lost their lives in this exercise. In consequence low flying limits were introduced

[Actually]

clunckdriver, can you enlighten me more about Roger Coulston's gliding club and how you came to get involved? Were you ever part of a newspaper photo-shoot when a famous pilot visited the base and Roger and the men with him at the club that day were photographed together with a glider behind? If you can furnish me with any details, however tiny, I would appreciate it. I am his youngest nephew, Dan, and I have spent the last 46 years investigating his crash and trying to get to know who he was, having been born 9 years after he died (he was my dad's brother). Please wrack your brains and take yourself back to those days, can you tell me all about how it was then? What was Roger like? I know a heck of a lot about his accident, probably all there is to know! I can explain it in detail if you'd like to know. Best wishes from Dan Coulston in England.

[Fonsini]

What were the flight limitations of a Meteor on one engine, could it maintain height or even climb, or were you committed to a landing. I’m assuming that an engine failure an unstick was unsustainable ?

[Danny42C]

Fonsini (#138),

Had very little time on them, only flew the Mk.7 (T); haven't got the Pilots' Notes; it was a very long time ago .......

But that said, from memory:

Meteor on one, 200 kts, fine, nearly as good as two, certainly would climb.

Meteor on one, wheels 'n flaps down, below 150 kts, all kinds of pig. With full rudder trim on, a chap with normal leg strength might do a go-around at a minimum of 125 kts, below that it was "Goodnight, nurse!"

Engine failure on "unstick" ? No hope, I would say, unless you'd accelerated to 130 kts, even then you'd be lucky.

Was a chap at Middleton-St-George, landed on one, saw he was running out of runway, decided to open up the live one and go-around. The thing bolted off onto the grass, described a graceful arc round the camp, first thing he hit was the window of his own room on the ground floor of the officer's Mess. The nose went in all right, but then the engines took out the supporting brickwork, the lintel fell on his head, and that was that.

The repaired brickwork was an object of interest for many years, the RAF station closed and became Teesside Airport (beg its pardon, the "Durham and Tees Valley" Airport). The Mess became the "George Hotel": it is said his ghost still haunts the West Wing.

That's all I know, there are plenty of other old-timers here who can put me right.

Danny.

[Fonsini]

Thanks Danny, you have a good memory !