Thanks Movers...not!
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A number of years ago I was told at short notice that I had to get to MPA asap, as one of loadies on the Chinook had come home for compassionate reasons. Flight was due to go out on a Sunday, the day that the clocks went back...
Already the hair on my neck was sticking up, I just knew that there would be GMT and local time faff. So I asked MT at Odiham if I could go an hour early just in case. Couldn't be done I was told as the coach was due to pick up a load of inbound pax and they had double checked my timings. Great…
Waiting for MT at the Sqn, a 4-tonner turns up! The coach had gone an hour earlier and they didn’t think that I would want to go on it, but they had checked the flight times, it was all OK! On the way to Brize, the 4-tonner breaks down. After 10mins of the young SAC kicking the tyres and being on the mobile to her boss and me considering getting a taxi, off we go again…
Arriving at Brize I join the queue that is extending out of the terminal. Guy in front of me asks if I’m on the flight to Bermuda!!! MPA I tell him. You better get inside he said as I was in the wrong queue!
Yep, you’ve guessed, there was just less than an hour to take off, my worst fears had come true. It was going that hour earlier.
I explained to the Cpl the problem I’d had getting there, who I was and why I was going to MPA at such short notice and he just looked at me and said, “Well, you ain’t getting on the flight then Sarge are you.”
I asked to see his boss and a WO comes over. After explaining it all once again, he says the same thing. I ask to see the DAMO, if he’s not available, then the aircraft captain. Their heads pick up as they realise that I know something about the movements system.
I explain the whole thing to the DAMO again. Despite the pax still sitting in the departure lounge, he says the same thing.
I ask him that I’d like to see the aircraft captain so that I can go as supernumerary crew and at the same time telling him that he would have to explain to CBFFI why his Chinook couldn’t fly as he wasn’t willing to put me on the flight. That raised a few eyebrows!
OK he says, but you’ll have to call out the Duty Officer at Odiham to get the flight delayed! I was flabbergasted! Do you know how long that will take I say (by now it had already taken 20mins), Christ, why can’t you just be flexible and put me on the flight. He relented, they put on the flight.
The long and short of it is, at no time from the Cpl upwards were they helpful. All it needed was, “Hold on a mo, I’ll see what I can do,” instead it was just one wall after the next. Yes, I got lucky by quoting a few names and knowing my way around the system, but it shouldn’t have to come to that.
It’s for the above reasons that the movers get their bad reputations from…
Already the hair on my neck was sticking up, I just knew that there would be GMT and local time faff. So I asked MT at Odiham if I could go an hour early just in case. Couldn't be done I was told as the coach was due to pick up a load of inbound pax and they had double checked my timings. Great…
Waiting for MT at the Sqn, a 4-tonner turns up! The coach had gone an hour earlier and they didn’t think that I would want to go on it, but they had checked the flight times, it was all OK! On the way to Brize, the 4-tonner breaks down. After 10mins of the young SAC kicking the tyres and being on the mobile to her boss and me considering getting a taxi, off we go again…
Arriving at Brize I join the queue that is extending out of the terminal. Guy in front of me asks if I’m on the flight to Bermuda!!! MPA I tell him. You better get inside he said as I was in the wrong queue!
Yep, you’ve guessed, there was just less than an hour to take off, my worst fears had come true. It was going that hour earlier.
I explained to the Cpl the problem I’d had getting there, who I was and why I was going to MPA at such short notice and he just looked at me and said, “Well, you ain’t getting on the flight then Sarge are you.”
I asked to see his boss and a WO comes over. After explaining it all once again, he says the same thing. I ask to see the DAMO, if he’s not available, then the aircraft captain. Their heads pick up as they realise that I know something about the movements system.
I explain the whole thing to the DAMO again. Despite the pax still sitting in the departure lounge, he says the same thing.
I ask him that I’d like to see the aircraft captain so that I can go as supernumerary crew and at the same time telling him that he would have to explain to CBFFI why his Chinook couldn’t fly as he wasn’t willing to put me on the flight. That raised a few eyebrows!
OK he says, but you’ll have to call out the Duty Officer at Odiham to get the flight delayed! I was flabbergasted! Do you know how long that will take I say (by now it had already taken 20mins), Christ, why can’t you just be flexible and put me on the flight. He relented, they put on the flight.
The long and short of it is, at no time from the Cpl upwards were they helpful. All it needed was, “Hold on a mo, I’ll see what I can do,” instead it was just one wall after the next. Yes, I got lucky by quoting a few names and knowing my way around the system, but it shouldn’t have to come to that.
It’s for the above reasons that the movers get their bad reputations from…
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Ah, but the proper RAF was different. One early Sunday morning at Cottesmore, in the decade known as the ‘60s, my door was being hammered, hard. It was a mate Vic, frantic as he’d overslept to catch a ‘Transport Command’ Britannia on Vulcan exercise to the Far. We ran out to the MkII Zodiac and zoomed off to dispersals.
We get onto the peri-track and, in the distance, a Brit is coming towards us for departure. Too late! Worth a try I thought; I flash the headlights and pull onto the grass. Vic jumps out and stands on the grass with pleading eyes towards the crew. Blow me! They stop, shut down 1 and 2, and call for some steps, which arrive in minutes. The door opens and closes, 1 and 2 start up, and off went Vic.
Gawd, I was impressed. Try telling that to ……………
( Cracking outfits, the ‘ 60s Brits and VC-10s. Never failed to do a first call job! )
We get onto the peri-track and, in the distance, a Brit is coming towards us for departure. Too late! Worth a try I thought; I flash the headlights and pull onto the grass. Vic jumps out and stands on the grass with pleading eyes towards the crew. Blow me! They stop, shut down 1 and 2, and call for some steps, which arrive in minutes. The door opens and closes, 1 and 2 start up, and off went Vic.
Gawd, I was impressed. Try telling that to ……………
( Cracking outfits, the ‘ 60s Brits and VC-10s. Never failed to do a first call job! )
Thread Starter
I'm wondering what TOD has to do with the individual or situation overall
get a life chaps and report when you are asked to
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If the movers are soo poor then why dont we civilianise the system?
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VAT - What airline are you on about? even easyJst close the desk at 40 mins before departure but ask all pax to report 2 hours before ideally. There is flexibility but you do need more time to load widebody aircraft than smaller ones. The crew do expect the paperwork 60 mins before and so the pressure is on. Yes, we do accept latecomers depending on the circumstances but then face a whinge from the Loadie about his catering numbers! Whatever happens in the Gateway as regards evictions, calls etc is the domain of the Catering Flight and nothing to do with the Movers! Finally, I have emplaned late pax right up to the wire and again denied them if they arrive late - it all depends on the guys attitude. He's late he starts shouting he's had it! Always remeber two RA WO2s shouting the odds about only being 20 mins late and making mischief - When asked if it was ok to start an Artillery barrage 20 mins late they clammed!! I'm retired now but I learned to grow broad shoulders and the misinformed crap continues - security checks - Plods, in-flight/gateway etc - Caterers, transport/buses etc - MT, booking cock-ups - Clerks, delays/lack of info - Crews!! But what the heck - blame the Movers!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
A couple of very junior rock POs were led astray at Akrotiri, probably their first time overseas. Arrived on the apron as the Belslow, laden with all the kit and their flight, was taxiing.
Imploring gestures made to Captain. Stern shake of head, aircraft continues forward then stops, door opens, 2 very worried POs pulled on board.
Six weeks later, RTB, same POs, same leading astray . . .
only difference was they hed left their flight at Masirah or whereever as the ac had been 190lb overweight.
They were again boarded as the aircraft taxied.
Imploring gestures made to Captain. Stern shake of head, aircraft continues forward then stops, door opens, 2 very worried POs pulled on board.
Six weeks later, RTB, same POs, same leading astray . . .
only difference was they hed left their flight at Masirah or whereever as the ac had been 190lb overweight.
They were again boarded as the aircraft taxied.
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Something is sadly wrong here. It is acknowledged that the guy was late reporting and there is a need to address the problem. However, not letting him join the flight meant that the guy he was replacing was not be able to return to the UK for another week after his tour of duty, why should he be "punished"? Surely the procedure should have been let the guy catch the flight but warn him that action will be taken whereby he will be required to explain the reasons for his lateness to his new OC and if necessary receive any punishment due. I believe common sense was required, after all he was at the airhead in time to be able to board the aircraft even though he was an hour after the required reporting time.
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The Real Issue
So he was driving from Wales to Brize the day of his flight with the weather we've been having? I may be having an outbreak of common sense but wouldn't it have been more sensible to be in the Brize area the night before the flight? Just a thought.
Bear
Bear
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two points:
1. We have one side of the story here.
2. Driving himself? Shame on the chap for not getting MT to take him. Don't tell me he was in his own car as well, and will drive home in it after a 16 hr flight on duty? Fatigue? Selby rail crash? Poor show.
1. We have one side of the story here.
2. Driving himself? Shame on the chap for not getting MT to take him. Don't tell me he was in his own car as well, and will drive home in it after a 16 hr flight on duty? Fatigue? Selby rail crash? Poor show.
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I do remember at Brize the custom was for senior officers to join the Ten flight after everyone else had boarded and was seated...
One evening after all the Pax had got on and were seated, I was given the OK to deice the fwd fuselage from the Stb side, ( we normally left it to prevent Deicing fluid dripping on the pax as they entered the aircraft)
Anyway, I let rip just as some General, late departing the terminal was heading up the airstairs....... Oddly, he didn't see the funny side of it, though everyone else dissapeared under the wing to have a good laugh whilst I got the flak......
He must of copped a good couple of gallons of the stuff and I was later told the Pax already seated burst out laughing when he stepped inside..
Speaking of Civilians operating with the RAF..... The RAF actually trialed a couple of Black Cabs at RAF Upavon to see if they would be suitable as general transport.............. They were not a success, as when picking up service personal, you would get civvies jumping in and saying take me to so and so, even though they had RAF emblazened down the sides and the driver was in Uniform..even when pointed out they refused to get out LOL
One evening after all the Pax had got on and were seated, I was given the OK to deice the fwd fuselage from the Stb side, ( we normally left it to prevent Deicing fluid dripping on the pax as they entered the aircraft)
Anyway, I let rip just as some General, late departing the terminal was heading up the airstairs....... Oddly, he didn't see the funny side of it, though everyone else dissapeared under the wing to have a good laugh whilst I got the flak......
He must of copped a good couple of gallons of the stuff and I was later told the Pax already seated burst out laughing when he stepped inside..
Speaking of Civilians operating with the RAF..... The RAF actually trialed a couple of Black Cabs at RAF Upavon to see if they would be suitable as general transport.............. They were not a success, as when picking up service personal, you would get civvies jumping in and saying take me to so and so, even though they had RAF emblazened down the sides and the driver was in Uniform..even when pointed out they refused to get out LOL
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Our MT will not take you to the airhead, only provide a hire car. They will, however, pick you up from BZN, due to the fatigue issues.
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May I just clarify my understanding? A GR7 pilot makes a pretty serious error in judgement resulting in his aircraft sustaining “some damage on the fuselage” (and possibly escaped lightly) and it receives 22 posts on this site, mainly in a flippant vein. A Movements Tradesman applies the well-publicised regulations, and despite not knowing the surrounding facts (availability of manpower and other aircraft movements to name but 2), the same tiresome nonsense gets aired here. Hypocrisy anyone?
As for those who compare military and civair reporting times, pop into BZZ and volunteer to join the under-resourced shift to stack the vent in a VC10. I would suggest that with our ageing AT fleet, lack of manpower and inadequate resources, the 2 timings are blatantly incomparable!
Rant ends!
As for those who compare military and civair reporting times, pop into BZZ and volunteer to join the under-resourced shift to stack the vent in a VC10. I would suggest that with our ageing AT fleet, lack of manpower and inadequate resources, the 2 timings are blatantly incomparable!
Rant ends!
Fat Albert
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The word down here is that it seems this guy was not particularly eager to come down (is anyone?) and therefore probably didn't push too hard to get on to the flight after being told no.
Just for the record the guy here who he was due to replace was allowed to leave on time and departed on yesterdays flight.
From my own perspective I have had to deal with a spate of 'no shows' and last minute sufferers of 'twisted sock syndrome' over the last few weeks. In all but one case the guys posts were gapped for a few days and they got away on time. What I will say though is in most of the cases the attitude of the admin staff back at the parent units has been particularly unhelpful.
I just hope that when these people take their turn either down here or in the sandpit that they get the same level of service.
One final point. The small section of movers here at MPA work bloody hard and provide an excellent service.
Just for the record the guy here who he was due to replace was allowed to leave on time and departed on yesterdays flight.
From my own perspective I have had to deal with a spate of 'no shows' and last minute sufferers of 'twisted sock syndrome' over the last few weeks. In all but one case the guys posts were gapped for a few days and they got away on time. What I will say though is in most of the cases the attitude of the admin staff back at the parent units has been particularly unhelpful.
I just hope that when these people take their turn either down here or in the sandpit that they get the same level of service.
One final point. The small section of movers here at MPA work bloody hard and provide an excellent service.
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Brize Norton Movements is the only unit in the British Military with 100% job satisfaction
All trades can p*ss you about for whatever reason without repercussion
Yes, I went there many times with my own ac, sufficient fuel, rations and crew to pick up lads from the desert so they didn't face a 24hr coach journey home - and I still got fecked about
Having given 24hsr notice - what should have been a 15min engine running quick pick-up, became a 2hr shutdown because of Customs aresh*les, Air traggic parking cock-ups and DAMOS insisting on everyone wearing dayglo vests to walk out
Fortunately on this trip we had FOSNI on board and he observed everything
Funny old thing, after that, things improved for us, but I still read here that things haven't improved much for the fighting lads on the ground
The Stn authorities and Movers think that BZN is the equivilent of Heathrow - it's no way! - and they should not be allowed to compete to be in the same league
We have ID - we are vouched for, valid and valuable and should be processed as VIP's rather than cattle
Over the years the Movers have been tied to the procedures of the ASCOT mob who are still living in the heady days and think they are BOAC, BEA or BA equals and follow their own rules, so they suppot them to the detriment of their primary task of caring for those who need a flight, hotel or tent
Cue Beagle and PN
All trades can p*ss you about for whatever reason without repercussion
Yes, I went there many times with my own ac, sufficient fuel, rations and crew to pick up lads from the desert so they didn't face a 24hr coach journey home - and I still got fecked about
Having given 24hsr notice - what should have been a 15min engine running quick pick-up, became a 2hr shutdown because of Customs aresh*les, Air traggic parking cock-ups and DAMOS insisting on everyone wearing dayglo vests to walk out
Fortunately on this trip we had FOSNI on board and he observed everything
Funny old thing, after that, things improved for us, but I still read here that things haven't improved much for the fighting lads on the ground
The Stn authorities and Movers think that BZN is the equivilent of Heathrow - it's no way! - and they should not be allowed to compete to be in the same league
We have ID - we are vouched for, valid and valuable and should be processed as VIP's rather than cattle
Over the years the Movers have been tied to the procedures of the ASCOT mob who are still living in the heady days and think they are BOAC, BEA or BA equals and follow their own rules, so they suppot them to the detriment of their primary task of caring for those who need a flight, hotel or tent
Cue Beagle and PN
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Oh well - 6 months since the last Mover bashing thread 
buoy15
yep all the fault of the Movers.....
Customs aresh*les - HM Customs - nothing to do with Movers
Air traggic parking cock-ups - as you said Air Traffic - nothing to do with Movers
DAMOS insisting on everyone wearing dayglo vests to walk out - and who set that rule....
Fatlad - totally agree with what you said
buoy15
yep all the fault of the Movers.....
Customs aresh*les - HM Customs - nothing to do with Movers
Air traggic parking cock-ups - as you said Air Traffic - nothing to do with Movers
DAMOS insisting on everyone wearing dayglo vests to walk out - and who set that rule....
Fatlad - totally agree with what you said
Last edited by November4; 30th Jul 2007 at 09:39.
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The movements trade trains airmen to load plan and complete weight and balance (trims) at the SAC (Movs Controller) level. This trained airman as things stand completes/coordinates all the paperwork (pax/trim/cargo) that is then handed over to the DAMO (Flt Lt/WO runner) who double checks the paperwork (of the airman who has had formal training)who then takes the documents to the loadmaster who double checks the DAMO's checks of the airman who then splits the manifest and cargo docs out from the pile and passes the trim sheet to the captain who then.............
If you work back all the paperwork handling and officialdom into the scenario at the start of this thread you can see why the RAF closes out its flights so early where as a commercial operation is some what more streamlined and efficient.
In civvy street if a passenger is running late for a flight the dispatcher makes a mental note but still runs his documentation/process with the information that is known to him be it pax/cargo/fuel etc - he would normally tell the capt the late runners info BTW. If the pax does rock-up after the paperwork has been printed the dispatcher amends the load/trim sheet by way of a Last Minute Change ammendment, and the pax/bag flies. An LMC can run on average 500-1000 kgs. Instead of getting into a verbal slanging match at check-in, the 'flexible' mover would take the upper hand, put the pax in their place verbally and let them fly. At Brize no pan is more than 15 minutes away and quick call to the pan phone/movers puts those in the know in the loop. Civvy street does this for commercial reasons/passenger retention, I think the Movers need to apply the same methodology/ethics with a pax who has a requirement to be on that jet.
I have worked to a remit of check-in closure at -45mins with an acft turn around time of 90 mins (320 pax off/on, decater/cater, clean, bagsoff/on, crew change, security checks) and this was at a very large airport near Hounslow under the current security restrictions. Interstingly, so long as I had the acft doors closed at the Scheduled Time of Departure then the call as to whether a pax is accepted or not fell not to the acft capt but to me. Yes it was a team effort, but ultimately the on time performance was a function of the ground operation and how I managed the turn around and third party suppliers. If I made the wrong call then the capt had my name and a voyage report was raised and I was held to account and lessons would be learnt if applicable.
If you work back all the paperwork handling and officialdom into the scenario at the start of this thread you can see why the RAF closes out its flights so early where as a commercial operation is some what more streamlined and efficient.
In civvy street if a passenger is running late for a flight the dispatcher makes a mental note but still runs his documentation/process with the information that is known to him be it pax/cargo/fuel etc - he would normally tell the capt the late runners info BTW. If the pax does rock-up after the paperwork has been printed the dispatcher amends the load/trim sheet by way of a Last Minute Change ammendment, and the pax/bag flies. An LMC can run on average 500-1000 kgs. Instead of getting into a verbal slanging match at check-in, the 'flexible' mover would take the upper hand, put the pax in their place verbally and let them fly. At Brize no pan is more than 15 minutes away and quick call to the pan phone/movers puts those in the know in the loop. Civvy street does this for commercial reasons/passenger retention, I think the Movers need to apply the same methodology/ethics with a pax who has a requirement to be on that jet.
I have worked to a remit of check-in closure at -45mins with an acft turn around time of 90 mins (320 pax off/on, decater/cater, clean, bagsoff/on, crew change, security checks) and this was at a very large airport near Hounslow under the current security restrictions. Interstingly, so long as I had the acft doors closed at the Scheduled Time of Departure then the call as to whether a pax is accepted or not fell not to the acft capt but to me. Yes it was a team effort, but ultimately the on time performance was a function of the ground operation and how I managed the turn around and third party suppliers. If I made the wrong call then the capt had my name and a voyage report was raised and I was held to account and lessons would be learnt if applicable.