Secret Plan to Remove Quarters
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I find it hard to believe that anybody would sell their house to a private company, then rent it back from them AND still be financially responsible for upgrades and upkeep of the house. Incredible piece of contract work from the civilian sector if they really got the MOD to agree to pay for upgrades so that the company can then sell a better house than the one they first bought.
Is this really the case?
Is this really the case?
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Service accommodation will always be available because we couldn't post a family from, let's say Scotland to London and expect them to pick up the bill for the move (minus the first 5k) and the substantial difference in house costs. Servicemen will be UNABLE to move and therefore the situation is untenable. Someody would (have to) take it to court. MOD would always settle out of court. The story gets around that you can contest it, end of policy.
FQ rents are likely to increase, but it cannot be possible to charge a realistic local rent in expensive areas such as London. If all rents go up, people would prefer to move out into better quality private accommodation, but the MOD would have to keep FQs but wouldn't be getting a rent. Own goal.
It's common for commercial leases to place the burden of repair on the tenant, but not for residential. However, the MOD will have leased them on commercial terms to ensure they have an assured contract that cannot be terminated within the lease period. As we occupy them under license we have none of the normal tenant's rights afforded to normal residential properties. It's a strange anomaly caused because the tenant of the property doesn't sign the lease.
FQ rents are likely to increase, but it cannot be possible to charge a realistic local rent in expensive areas such as London. If all rents go up, people would prefer to move out into better quality private accommodation, but the MOD would have to keep FQs but wouldn't be getting a rent. Own goal.
It's common for commercial leases to place the burden of repair on the tenant, but not for residential. However, the MOD will have leased them on commercial terms to ensure they have an assured contract that cannot be terminated within the lease period. As we occupy them under license we have none of the normal tenant's rights afforded to normal residential properties. It's a strange anomaly caused because the tenant of the property doesn't sign the lease.
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Service accommodation will always be available because we couldn't post a family from, let's say Scotland to London and expect them to pick up the bill for the move (minus the first 5k) and the substantial difference in house costs. Servicemen will be UNABLE to move and therefore the situation is untenable.
The idea appears to be that most spouses would have their own careers and not want to move, while the money saved from not providing quarters would improve messes, making them more pleasant places to spend 3 years.
It is, of course, completely wrong, and not what ANYONE in their right mind would want. It also doesn't consider those of us smart enough to marry a teacher, or someone else who can work in most parts of the UK; nor does it consider that maybe we'd all prefer to live together with our families?
making them more pleasant places to spend 3 years
Then it all starts over again, how many more ways of 'forcing' people to PVR can they think of, there must be another round of redundancies in the air, and the MOD can not afford it.
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Affirmatron, you're right; but the gist of it was that if you can't afford to move your family it's the same as choosing not to move your family. From what I understood, if I'm posted from Scotland to London then I have to accept that my family will stay in Scotland while I live in for the duration of my tour.
<<RANT WARNING>>
My understanding is that we are on license to occupy FQs precisely so that we are prevented from exercising our right as tennants. I am lucky at the moment, I live in a good FQ on a nice patch, but in the next couple of months, I will be moving Mrs Hat and the Hats Minor to a dump. What I have noticed over the past XX years is that the cost of living in a FQ has increased dramatically, but the standard of service has plummeted.
MODern Housing Solutions is a bad joke that has no chance of success because THERE IS NO MONEY, which is kind where we came in isn't it? Every time I see a workman they are botching whatever job they have been given. My roof still leaks 6 weeks after a temporary repair. Reported it? Yes. Emergency? No. Estimate of time to repair? Not possible. What makes it worse is that most of the people visiting FQs to do repairs are pretty reasonable people - but they are working with their hands tied behind their backs. They have been told not to spend too long on a job. If that means botching and running away, then that's what they have been told to do [U]in writing[U], and get the occupant to raise an additional job, which sets the clock back to zero and produces another tick in their stats.
There is no preventive maintenance going on (even when its necessity is reported), and in many cases they would rather move a family out of a FQ than fix a problem (been there, done that).
In my opinion, those responsible for the original sell-off of the FQs should have been strung-up.
<<RANT OFF>>
Sorry about that, and I haven't had a drink since Sunday morning!
STH
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STH,
I am concerned re the CEA rules. Having signed the Mobility Clause and have to move when posted in order to receive the CEA I am scratching my head over this latest MQ revelation.
I am concerned re the CEA rules. Having signed the Mobility Clause and have to move when posted in order to receive the CEA I am scratching my head over this latest MQ revelation.
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Rev I. Tin
It depends/will depend on the interpretation of the rules. I don't have immediate access to the JSP but, as you are aware, once you sign up for CEA, you agree to serve accompanied, and will need to show this each time you claim. This is in addition to your poster providing you with a signed certificate stating that you are vulnerable to posting within X years.
There are some posts that are shielded from the 'accompanied' requirement - where there are no FQs for example, and I believe some of the posts in MoD are shielded because of the difficulties in getting accommodation. These posts allow you effectively to serve unaccompanied, but without losing your CEA.
This is all very well for a small number of people, but where the inability to serve accompanied becomes widespread, because of the inequity of North/South house prices and non-availability of FQs, you can be pretty sure that the argument for CEA will be closely examined by the beancounters (as it currently seems to be about very 6 mths).
The main problem with CEA, though, is that its withdrawal would, I believe, be the final straw for many people. For someone with a couple of children, it's worth a lot of money, and your kids (generally) come out of it educated!
However, this is going away from the thread and is perhaps a topic for another time.
STH
It depends/will depend on the interpretation of the rules. I don't have immediate access to the JSP but, as you are aware, once you sign up for CEA, you agree to serve accompanied, and will need to show this each time you claim. This is in addition to your poster providing you with a signed certificate stating that you are vulnerable to posting within X years.
There are some posts that are shielded from the 'accompanied' requirement - where there are no FQs for example, and I believe some of the posts in MoD are shielded because of the difficulties in getting accommodation. These posts allow you effectively to serve unaccompanied, but without losing your CEA.
This is all very well for a small number of people, but where the inability to serve accompanied becomes widespread, because of the inequity of North/South house prices and non-availability of FQs, you can be pretty sure that the argument for CEA will be closely examined by the beancounters (as it currently seems to be about very 6 mths).
The main problem with CEA, though, is that its withdrawal would, I believe, be the final straw for many people. For someone with a couple of children, it's worth a lot of money, and your kids (generally) come out of it educated!
However, this is going away from the thread and is perhaps a topic for another time.
STH
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Married Quarters
After all these posts, has anybody who is directly concerned with this matter tried to get an official response on the subject ?
As an outsider looking in it appears that because someone posted a suggestion that married quarters are dying a death everybody else has assumed this to be true.
I am not saying that there is no truth in this but what are the facts from the official side of things ?
'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'
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I realise that this is tantamount to treason. My apologies to HM the Queen. PM me if you want a coup. now is it a coup, a coup d'etade, a coop de grace or whut???
I say we shut the gates, bring all the lads and lasses back from the sandpits and put all the sniveling politicians against the wall.
I say we shut the gates, bring all the lads and lasses back from the sandpits and put all the sniveling politicians against the wall.
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Housing
I haven't read all the thread but lets get real. Ever since the MQs were sold off, the writing was on the wall for FQs. And do not expect a housing allowance. We are already told that we get paid really well so do not expect a US housing allowance.
The RAF will be in 3 places soon - Scotland, Lincs and London/Oxford.
So go buy a house and commute!
I am off!
The RAF will be in 3 places soon - Scotland, Lincs and London/Oxford.
So go buy a house and commute!
I am off!
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Everyone gets a vote - in fact two votes if you count the other foot. I voted - it's death by a thousand paper cuts and I'm not waiting around to see if this rumour is another slash.
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UPDATE ON HOMELESSNESS LEGISLATION ISSUE
The following link is on the BAFF site. It explains the Housing issue in detail and shows the support they have given to this issue. A big thank you for all their support on this campaign. as well as the RBL.
Regards
Hitback
Clause 270 - Armed forces: homelessness and allocation of housing
775. Clause 270 amends section 199 of the Housing Act 1996, which sets out the circumstances when a person has a local connection with the district of a local housing authority. Housing authorities may take account of whether a person has a local connection with their district when considering the person's priority for an allocation of housing under Part 6 of the 1996 Act or when making inquiries about whether the person is homeless and owed a duty for the purposes of Part 7 of the 1996 Act. The effect of the amendment is that a person in the armed forces will now be able to establish a local connection with a district through residence of choice or employment there, in the same way as a civilian.
http://www.baff.org.uk/baff-social-housing-campaign.htm
The following link is on the BAFF site. It explains the Housing issue in detail and shows the support they have given to this issue. A big thank you for all their support on this campaign. as well as the RBL.
Regards
Hitback
Clause 270 - Armed forces: homelessness and allocation of housing
775. Clause 270 amends section 199 of the Housing Act 1996, which sets out the circumstances when a person has a local connection with the district of a local housing authority. Housing authorities may take account of whether a person has a local connection with their district when considering the person's priority for an allocation of housing under Part 6 of the 1996 Act or when making inquiries about whether the person is homeless and owed a duty for the purposes of Part 7 of the 1996 Act. The effect of the amendment is that a person in the armed forces will now be able to establish a local connection with a district through residence of choice or employment there, in the same way as a civilian.
http://www.baff.org.uk/baff-social-housing-campaign.htm
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they in effect have divorced themselves from the rest of us and should be treated as scum
Is the above official Aircrew policy statement
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Inaccurate reporting
Hitback,
In reading back through this thread I note that at least one establishment in your list (posting 31/07/2007, 16.17) has not been sold off - Whittington Barracks. This establishment is still in open, in MOD hands and is earmarked at present to receive elements of the Defence Medical Services (DMS) organisation.
Not points scoring, but I am sure that you would want the record straight.
HILF
In reading back through this thread I note that at least one establishment in your list (posting 31/07/2007, 16.17) has not been sold off - Whittington Barracks. This establishment is still in open, in MOD hands and is earmarked at present to receive elements of the Defence Medical Services (DMS) organisation.
Not points scoring, but I am sure that you would want the record straight.
HILF
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EDM361 - Medical Discharge Boards And Armed Forces Personnel
Proposed by Nick Harvey on 03/12/2009
That this House recognises the difficulties with the current Medical Discharge system by which three medical boards discuss the injured person's medical treatment and discharge; believes that insufficiently reliable information about benefits and entitlements is available to service personnel prior to discharge, as well as information about the Discharge board process itself, which is often convoluted and conducted in an uninformative manner; notes that the appointments with the boards can often be intimidating; calls for better support from outside agencies such as the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency; and urges the Government to investigate the matter and to transform medical discharge boards so that they become fairer, more transparent and more accessible in terms of advice and guidance throughout the whole process.
The following link will make locating your MP easy. UK Parliament - Her Majesty's Government
Please show your support by sending your MP the following.
Thank you once again for the sites support.
Regards
Hitback
Dear .........
Please sign EDM 361 Medical Discharge Boards And Armed Forces Personnel.
These are the reasons why you should sign.
Although the Armed Forces have been Tri-Service for some time the MoD still run three separate Medical Discharge Boards for the three Armed Forces. Service personnel go through three Boards but only attend the final one before discharge.
Having three separate Medical Discharge Boards adds to greater cost to the public purse and confusion for those being discharged.
Many service personnel have little or no idea of how these Boards work before they arrive at one –this has been the case for decades and urgently needs reform.
When service personnel arrive at the final Board they have no idea what to say, who sits on the Medical Board, or what powers these Boards have. There is very little general advice or guidance from the MoD or other agency on the process service personnel undergo, their fundamental rights or reliable answers about discharge.
There is no automatic right for personnel to bring along a nominated colleague or friend or legal adviser so candidates can sometimes make catastrophic decisions about their future lives.
The degree or percentage of disability service personnel qualify for (important for realising how much compensation they will later receive) is not told to them by the Medical Board but are informed much later. There is no medical plan for injured personnel or any appointments booked with medical staff.
The Service Personnel and Veterans Agency (SPVA) is not involved at any stage of the Medical Board process and are not permitted to see any information about service personnel going before the Board.
If the SPVA were allowed information, it would mean the necessary paperwork for a war pension for example will have been completed and information about benefits including Incapacity, Mobility, Carers Allowance, Housing Benefits etc will have been talked through.
It would mean an exemption certificate for medication (presently not issued until discharge) will have been issued which would allow personnel to get medication they require free of charge and not allow some of them to fall into poverty.
The SPVA would also be responsible for contacting outside agencies such as Combat Stress or Talking2Minds with the date, time and place of treatment before the service leaver enters civilian life. This is essential for those suffering from Mental Health Issues (PTSD). Combat Stress should be made aware of the service leaver if they have PTSD or any service related mental illness.
A story in The Times on 15 November 2009 said that 4,916 cases of mental disorder have been identified in British troops who toured Afghanistan and Iraq, while 67 who served in the two war zones had committed suicide since 2003.
While an injured person is on the SAM List or at Headley Court, they should be encouraged to start pre-release courses including advice on self employment, CV writing, Interview techniques.
The resettlement into Social Housing requires to be done at least 6 months prior to discharge.
Finally, there should be recognition of the job spouses and dependants do for those who are discharged – it is them who keep family life together when the front door closes.
By re-examining its procedures and introducing change to the present Medical Discharge System it would mean that a faster transition to civilian life would be achieved in line with the Ministry of Defence’s paper The Nation’s Commitment to the Armed Forces Community: Consistent and Enduring Support which was presented to Parliament by the Secretary of State for Defence in July 2009.
Your Respectfully
...............................
Proposed by Nick Harvey on 03/12/2009
That this House recognises the difficulties with the current Medical Discharge system by which three medical boards discuss the injured person's medical treatment and discharge; believes that insufficiently reliable information about benefits and entitlements is available to service personnel prior to discharge, as well as information about the Discharge board process itself, which is often convoluted and conducted in an uninformative manner; notes that the appointments with the boards can often be intimidating; calls for better support from outside agencies such as the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency; and urges the Government to investigate the matter and to transform medical discharge boards so that they become fairer, more transparent and more accessible in terms of advice and guidance throughout the whole process.
The following link will make locating your MP easy. UK Parliament - Her Majesty's Government
Please show your support by sending your MP the following.
Thank you once again for the sites support.
Regards
Hitback
Dear .........
Please sign EDM 361 Medical Discharge Boards And Armed Forces Personnel.
These are the reasons why you should sign.
Although the Armed Forces have been Tri-Service for some time the MoD still run three separate Medical Discharge Boards for the three Armed Forces. Service personnel go through three Boards but only attend the final one before discharge.
Having three separate Medical Discharge Boards adds to greater cost to the public purse and confusion for those being discharged.
Many service personnel have little or no idea of how these Boards work before they arrive at one –this has been the case for decades and urgently needs reform.
When service personnel arrive at the final Board they have no idea what to say, who sits on the Medical Board, or what powers these Boards have. There is very little general advice or guidance from the MoD or other agency on the process service personnel undergo, their fundamental rights or reliable answers about discharge.
There is no automatic right for personnel to bring along a nominated colleague or friend or legal adviser so candidates can sometimes make catastrophic decisions about their future lives.
The degree or percentage of disability service personnel qualify for (important for realising how much compensation they will later receive) is not told to them by the Medical Board but are informed much later. There is no medical plan for injured personnel or any appointments booked with medical staff.
The Service Personnel and Veterans Agency (SPVA) is not involved at any stage of the Medical Board process and are not permitted to see any information about service personnel going before the Board.
If the SPVA were allowed information, it would mean the necessary paperwork for a war pension for example will have been completed and information about benefits including Incapacity, Mobility, Carers Allowance, Housing Benefits etc will have been talked through.
It would mean an exemption certificate for medication (presently not issued until discharge) will have been issued which would allow personnel to get medication they require free of charge and not allow some of them to fall into poverty.
The SPVA would also be responsible for contacting outside agencies such as Combat Stress or Talking2Minds with the date, time and place of treatment before the service leaver enters civilian life. This is essential for those suffering from Mental Health Issues (PTSD). Combat Stress should be made aware of the service leaver if they have PTSD or any service related mental illness.
A story in The Times on 15 November 2009 said that 4,916 cases of mental disorder have been identified in British troops who toured Afghanistan and Iraq, while 67 who served in the two war zones had committed suicide since 2003.
While an injured person is on the SAM List or at Headley Court, they should be encouraged to start pre-release courses including advice on self employment, CV writing, Interview techniques.
The resettlement into Social Housing requires to be done at least 6 months prior to discharge.
Finally, there should be recognition of the job spouses and dependants do for those who are discharged – it is them who keep family life together when the front door closes.
By re-examining its procedures and introducing change to the present Medical Discharge System it would mean that a faster transition to civilian life would be achieved in line with the Ministry of Defence’s paper The Nation’s Commitment to the Armed Forces Community: Consistent and Enduring Support which was presented to Parliament by the Secretary of State for Defence in July 2009.
Your Respectfully
...............................
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Ok, amongst other things (inter alia for staff types) I can see particular problems when moving from Scotland to Englerlandstan and vice versa re ZH's previous. The sealed bid system (albeit not in great use at moment in Scotland due to the depressed market) brings a greater level of certainty in the purchase in that it moves more quickly to a binding agreement than the system favored in Engerlandstan. It is possible that moves from Scotland to Engerlandstan could fall through close to time of move. Ok that can happen with existing moves in England but do away with SFQs and the prospects of homeless service families rises. Likewise, try buying a house in Scotland being reliant on a house sale in Engerlandstan to fund the legally binding bid – most solicitors would not take you seriously so you will need balls of steel to brass out your bid. I guess what they are banking on is that the RAF will move towards a more static basing policy. Oh well no could it mean fewer tours in the bad lands of East Anglia?
