Am I the only one left?
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Annapolis, MD
Age: 86
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I retired after 30 years in 1983 and still miss it now and again. It is probably different now than in my day, but even then we were still doing 12 month unaccompanied tours and existing on low pay. Remember the wives marching down Whitehall for better pay and conditions? Guess nothing changes but the folks.
Bob C
Bob C
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd have to say yes aswell. I'm mere Tonka groundcrew, but I still enjoy my job. The PVR rate on the Sqn is the highest I've ever known at the moment, so I guess everyone isn't liking it quite as much. Obviously it annoys me sometimes when the powers that be introduce new and interesting ways to kick us in the teeth every now and them, but like all jobs you have to take the rough with the smooth.
I've got no plans to PVR and I'll say (at risk of getting slated or even crated for it!) I am honestly proud to wear a blue uniform (or my green denims!).
p_j
I've got no plans to PVR and I'll say (at risk of getting slated or even crated for it!) I am honestly proud to wear a blue uniform (or my green denims!).
p_j
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Not the end of the world but I can see it from here!
Age: 54
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Still enjoying being in blue after 21 years but the outside world is beckoning now, not that the security isn't good but I want to try something else to see if I can do it. Only ever had one job interview (for the RAF) and got the job and have met some great characters over the years. It is getting harder to do more with less but the can-do spirit is still there. Could do with more money to keep home command happy but can't we all.
PA
PA
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: firmly on dry land
Age: 81
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree. The issues here are of course 'managing change' which many of us resist, especially when you have a few in and can see you are on a circular track and 'communication.'
The change is either poorly explain, leaked, or spun and worse re-interpreted as the 'wish' from the top is translated into an 'order' at the bottom.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Advo had a very important point that most gloss over - the RAF has certainly changed in my 16 years, but I have changed more!
What I wanted to do and enjoyed doing as a young, free, single 21 year old are not the same as I want to do as a married, 2 kids 38 year old. Equally the RAF dont offer FJ flying to many 38+ Sqn Ldrs and even fewer 40 something Wg Cdrs (if I work hard!) And that is what I love doing and why I joined.
So I'm probably going to leave, and do something different. But would I change what a did? Never. I have achieved what I always wanted to do as a kid and had an amazing time flying high-performance (if Bootflap can exaggerate so can I!) aircraft with some great people. Would I recommend it to a youngster today? Yes, without hesitation.
Sorry if this is an aircrew oriented post, but thats what I am.
What I wanted to do and enjoyed doing as a young, free, single 21 year old are not the same as I want to do as a married, 2 kids 38 year old. Equally the RAF dont offer FJ flying to many 38+ Sqn Ldrs and even fewer 40 something Wg Cdrs (if I work hard!) And that is what I love doing and why I joined.
So I'm probably going to leave, and do something different. But would I change what a did? Never. I have achieved what I always wanted to do as a kid and had an amazing time flying high-performance (if Bootflap can exaggerate so can I!) aircraft with some great people. Would I recommend it to a youngster today? Yes, without hesitation.
Sorry if this is an aircrew oriented post, but thats what I am.
Personally I'm still quite happy with what I do as my core job after 18 years, and I really don't want to do anything else for the time being. However, the constant change, increasing bureaucracy, and jobsworth / careerist management is starting to grate. I've recently signed on for LOS30 and am already wondering if I did the right thing! The instant I get an office job, I'm off.
All I want, is to be allowed to get to grips with generating aircraft without being bogged down by sh1te, pettiness, distractions or yet another process change. Lets cut the micro-management and crack on properly!
Does anyone have a good number for FUN?
JG
All I want, is to be allowed to get to grips with generating aircraft without being bogged down by sh1te, pettiness, distractions or yet another process change. Lets cut the micro-management and crack on properly!
Does anyone have a good number for FUN?
JG
Last edited by Jobza Guddun; 5th Jul 2007 at 14:00.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: england
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"All I want, is to be allowed to get to grips with generating aircraft without being bogged down by sh1te, pettiness, distractions or yet another process change. Lets cut the micro-management and crack on properly!"
This is probably the most sensible thing I have ever read on PPrune
- this sums up 99% of the RAF techhies - Give us the manpower, give us the tools, give us the equipetment and we WILL get the job done. ( And normally do with very little of the above 
)
This is probably the most sensible thing I have ever read on PPrune
- this sums up 99% of the RAF techhies - Give us the manpower, give us the tools, give us the equipetment and we WILL get the job done. ( And normally do with very little of the above )
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Somerset
Age: 68
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only one left?
Hello everyone and welcome to my maiden post.
Returning to the initial theme, I don't think so. Certainly there is a lot of whinging at times but it's in-house and, in the main, directed into the air where those who are best qualified to understand can shoot it down.
My own view was when it stops being fun - stop doing it and consequently I left the RAF 8 yrs ago, after doing 26. However, no bad memories and no bitterness; just the occasional burst of nostalgia in which I am allowed to indulge by HQ Domestic Gp.
When the troops can't be bothered to gripe then you know morale is really bad. However I think the higher paid help are seriously overdrawn on the military goodwill account, and have defaulted on the covenant that requires loyalty to be reciprocated. I'm proud to have served (got my vets badge the other day) and I'm glad I served when I did.
And I'm proud to be associated with all of you.
Returning to the initial theme, I don't think so. Certainly there is a lot of whinging at times but it's in-house and, in the main, directed into the air where those who are best qualified to understand can shoot it down.
My own view was when it stops being fun - stop doing it and consequently I left the RAF 8 yrs ago, after doing 26. However, no bad memories and no bitterness; just the occasional burst of nostalgia in which I am allowed to indulge by HQ Domestic Gp.
When the troops can't be bothered to gripe then you know morale is really bad. However I think the higher paid help are seriously overdrawn on the military goodwill account, and have defaulted on the covenant that requires loyalty to be reciprocated. I'm proud to have served (got my vets badge the other day
) and I'm glad I served when I did. And I'm proud to be associated with all of you.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Tonka engo I used to love my life in the RAF but the last five years have changed it beyond recognition, to the point where it is starting to sour every good though that I used to have about it! that is a shame because I really used to think it was great, yes there are some good posts left and perhaps you are in one of them.
Also you are right about people whingeing, they always have done and always will do and the RAF needs people for the future that are going to commit and work hard regardless of the hardships, herein lies the problem as far as I can see, I can count on one hand the number of people that I know approaching their IPP that intend to stay in! if you factor in the record number of people PVR'ing and the trouble they are having in recruiting certain trades then the future really does look grim for the RAF.
Good luck for you and those that decide to continue because I fear you are in the minority, and ten years from now I think the ship will sink, I for one am glad to be jumping ship in a few short years, with lots of good memory yes but tarnished somewhat by lots of bad.
Also you are right about people whingeing, they always have done and always will do and the RAF needs people for the future that are going to commit and work hard regardless of the hardships, herein lies the problem as far as I can see, I can count on one hand the number of people that I know approaching their IPP that intend to stay in! if you factor in the record number of people PVR'ing and the trouble they are having in recruiting certain trades then the future really does look grim for the RAF.
Good luck for you and those that decide to continue because I fear you are in the minority, and ten years from now I think the ship will sink, I for one am glad to be jumping ship in a few short years, with lots of good memory yes but tarnished somewhat by lots of bad.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Close to the Arctic Circle
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Still Enjoying It?
I have been watching this thread for a couple of days now, and agree completely with the general view that it isn't all completely s##t/
To answer the question, damn straight I am! Having just picked up a new job that gets me back in the thick of it, I remember what it was that I enjoyed all those years ago on the sometimes-woeful Tornado Washing and Cleaning Unit at what is now Rock Central. Although some aspects of the support systems are pretty rubbish, and the jury is still out on BWOS' contribution to what we do, I have nothing but admiration for the guys who are quite literally working round the clock to deliver jets, to the extent that I sent 2 home in the past 24 hrs because they were shagged but wanted to finish the job. In fact, the only whingeing I have heard has been from senior folk who ought to know better.
That said, I have to agree with the view that the 'military covenant' could do with a dust off and polish, and I know of at least one future CAS who appears to be genuinely committed to doing so.
To answer the question, damn straight I am! Having just picked up a new job that gets me back in the thick of it, I remember what it was that I enjoyed all those years ago on the sometimes-woeful Tornado Washing and Cleaning Unit at what is now Rock Central. Although some aspects of the support systems are pretty rubbish, and the jury is still out on BWOS' contribution to what we do, I have nothing but admiration for the guys who are quite literally working round the clock to deliver jets, to the extent that I sent 2 home in the past 24 hrs because they were shagged but wanted to finish the job. In fact, the only whingeing I have heard has been from senior folk who ought to know better.
That said, I have to agree with the view that the 'military covenant' could do with a dust off and polish, and I know of at least one future CAS who appears to be genuinely committed to doing so.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tonka
I enjoyed every moment up until I left in January and would have stayed if I could have chosen to forsake my career in return for endless station jobs. However, having done a SEngO's tour, with little hope of an OC Eng's tour (or even OC Fwd), and with the IPTs' increased "working with industry" I was destined to work in civvy street for the foreseeable, whether wearing a blue suit or not. Therefore, it seemed right to take my option.
The thread clearly shows you're not the only one in the RAF who still enjoys it and you shouldn't assume that everyone that leaves didn't enjoy their time.
PS Keng130 etc are right. Having spent my entire time in the FJ world, I had a road to Damascus conversion with a last tour on Hercs. Spend some time with an AT or SH sqn in the current Op tempo and you'll realise that you FJ boys don't know you're born!
N Joe
I enjoyed every moment up until I left in January and would have stayed if I could have chosen to forsake my career in return for endless station jobs. However, having done a SEngO's tour, with little hope of an OC Eng's tour (or even OC Fwd), and with the IPTs' increased "working with industry" I was destined to work in civvy street for the foreseeable, whether wearing a blue suit or not. Therefore, it seemed right to take my option.
The thread clearly shows you're not the only one in the RAF who still enjoys it and you shouldn't assume that everyone that leaves didn't enjoy their time.
PS Keng130 etc are right. Having spent my entire time in the FJ world, I had a road to Damascus conversion with a last tour on Hercs. Spend some time with an AT or SH sqn in the current Op tempo and you'll realise that you FJ boys don't know you're born!
N Joe
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi guys im not in the RAF yet but with my IOT date getting closer and closer i am honestly looking forward to it. I have heard a lot of bad press both in the press and from ex-service personnel but I have remained positive and continued to follow as I planned, maybe that’s me just being naive and not wanting to hear the bad stuff) Although im not joining as aircrew, yes im going to be a scopie, well someone has to tell you guys where the baddies are :P anyway......im not going to be flying something pointy and fast but I am going to be at the pointy end and I look forward to it, I know im only young and have a lot to learn but I will learn maybe the hard way I don't know, but I don't think anyone on this planet can say that their job doesn't have its ups and downs and to be honest some of the perks in the services are well above he perks of any other job.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: definitely not close enough to the Alps, or anywhere hilly.....
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Biggus
So which of your two tiers do us Norfolk-folk fit into then? We still do ops like SH, AT and harrier, although admittedly not in the same conditions as the above. Or are we lumped in with your F3/E3D tier - not on ops, never away for prolonged periods.
So where do we fit into your two tier RAF?
For the record and the thread, I'm halfway through a PC and still enjoy it more than not!
Spy out
So which of your two tiers do us Norfolk-folk fit into then? We still do ops like SH, AT and harrier, although admittedly not in the same conditions as the above. Or are we lumped in with your F3/E3D tier - not on ops, never away for prolonged periods.
So where do we fit into your two tier RAF?
For the record and the thread, I'm halfway through a PC and still enjoy it more than not!
Spy out
I can't believe that I will be allowed to leave in 7 years with my IP and a lump sum...is it really 63 grand if you commute the lot? (leaving as a 2 barcode wastrel - probably)
I have done the Pensions calculator but I still don't believe it!
Cheers.
If you mean Norfolk GR4-folk, then you are clearly in the Copacabana and cocktails tier. I don't think you really do ops quite like the punchy side of the RAF do you? There is life below 10000' you know?
Try living in the mud and filth with the brown jobs, doing as much time away as they do in a year - they obviously didn't hear me shout "but I'm RAF" as they kicked me off the Herc...
I have done the Pensions calculator but I still don't believe it!
Cheers.
So which of your two tiers do us Norfolk-folk fit into then? We still do ops like SH, AT and harrier.
Try living in the mud and filth with the brown jobs, doing as much time away as they do in a year - they obviously didn't hear me shout "but I'm RAF" as they kicked me off the Herc...
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Awaiting Redundancies
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AWACS Bhoy good luck! After your trg and CRC tour, you could well find yourself E3 bound. Stick it out through the early bunker years and the better tours will come your way.
As for me ... still enjoying it. How many civvy jobs out there give you access to a free gym and adventurous trg and free dental? And a damn good wage when you start out .... to mention but a few.
I'm waiting for some of the early PVR's to re-apply. They'll be back when they realise what they've lost. Seen it many times before.
AVM Rimmer once told me if you see an old Sqn Ldr whinging about how good the RAF used to be, tell them I said 'Get out now'. The future is always with the new blood.
The whinging old should step aside.
As for me ... still enjoying it. How many civvy jobs out there give you access to a free gym and adventurous trg and free dental? And a damn good wage when you start out .... to mention but a few.
I'm waiting for some of the early PVR's to re-apply. They'll be back when they realise what they've lost. Seen it many times before.
AVM Rimmer once told me if you see an old Sqn Ldr whinging about how good the RAF used to be, tell them I said 'Get out now'. The future is always with the new blood.
The whinging old should step aside.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cornwall
Age: 61
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whinge, gripe, good times and bad times sounds like the same RAF I joined back in 1982 with 25 years in. Its a people driven outfit full of rouges, the honest hard working, shirkers, blags the bright and the not so bright. most
Wonderful bunch of people you could ever hope to meet and have the honour of working with. Yes the cream of society.
Not the same in civvie street
Wonderful bunch of people you could ever hope to meet and have the honour of working with. Yes the cream of society.
Not the same in civvie street