Anyone for a Lightning?
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Kammbronn
Hobie, XS936 is owned by Roy Flood, who set up Castle Motors, then Castle Air. He appears to have another, XR751 at home.
Here's a discussion on the origin of Castle Air.
Background
Rgds
Here's a discussion on the origin of Castle Air.
Background
Rgds
Last edited by diginagain; 29th June 2007 at 20:40.
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: UK
Fuel burn
An ex work colleague I knew flew the Lightning. Amongst departing company with one over the West Country, he flew one at the Paris Airshow as the display pilot for that year. 1000 gallons of go go juice in 10 minutes!! If I remember correctly.
You would need deep pockets for fuel alone.
You would need deep pockets for fuel alone.
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: NOTTINGAHNSHIRE
Quote:
Having said that, the team at Bruntingthorpe have done a magnificent job of keeping their two in airworthy condition. I was speaking to a friend of mine (Air Commodore ret'd) the other year and he said that during a high speed taxi run, in reheat no less, he was very tempted......
Thanks for the vote of confidence, we do try to keep them 'going' and thats all, they are far from airworthy, they both flew in (728 June 24th 1988 and 904 Jan 23rd 1993) and we have kept them as servicable as possible ever since, but as we 'only' ground run them and fast taxy them none on the systems are anything like flight worthy.
I assume you mean JS taxying JS, he does get a kick out of it still, but he wouldnt
Ive been close to these two beasts for 20 years and know them inside out and I can see why the CAA are nervous, everything aircraft is so complex and on the limit.
Getting all the OEM's to support a Lghtning is just not going to happen.
And there remains the main question, which airframe currently in the UK would be a possible candidate ?
A T5 would be the best candidate, but which one ?
Best to get a ticket to S Africa I think, or come to Brunty on July 22nd and see our two in action and put some cash in our QRA hangar rebuild fund
which will see them both preserved for the future.
As for fuel consuption the Avon 302 get though the best part of 3.5 gallons per second in reheat
Cheers
Andy B (LPG)
Having said that, the team at Bruntingthorpe have done a magnificent job of keeping their two in airworthy condition. I was speaking to a friend of mine (Air Commodore ret'd) the other year and he said that during a high speed taxi run, in reheat no less, he was very tempted......
Thanks for the vote of confidence, we do try to keep them 'going' and thats all, they are far from airworthy, they both flew in (728 June 24th 1988 and 904 Jan 23rd 1993) and we have kept them as servicable as possible ever since, but as we 'only' ground run them and fast taxy them none on the systems are anything like flight worthy.
I assume you mean JS taxying JS, he does get a kick out of it still, but he wouldnt
Ive been close to these two beasts for 20 years and know them inside out and I can see why the CAA are nervous, everything aircraft is so complex and on the limit.
Getting all the OEM's to support a Lghtning is just not going to happen.
And there remains the main question, which airframe currently in the UK would be a possible candidate ?
A T5 would be the best candidate, but which one ?
Best to get a ticket to S Africa I think, or come to Brunty on July 22nd and see our two in action and put some cash in our QRA hangar rebuild fund
which will see them both preserved for the future.As for fuel consuption the Avon 302 get though the best part of 3.5 gallons per second in reheat
Cheers
Andy B (LPG)
Thought police antagonist
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
OM15
You are correct with regard to the leaking hyd seals( lower jet pipe area ) and the mod. programme to rectify the problem. I spent many "happy hours"
on 431 MU engaged in replacing those seals at Gutersloh ( happy days ! ) as part of a mod programme which also involved replacing the outboard drain collector box and also the fuel system seals. The tolerances for the latter around an expansion joint were so tight, they were X-rayed after fitment to ensure the gap was correct. There was, as I recall, also replacement of some associated bracketry due to vibration cracking.
To give you an idea as to the depth of the programme, a team of 5 would work for 14 days solid ( other than for rest.....and the odd beer or two ) in order to complete the programme.
You are correct with regard to the leaking hyd seals( lower jet pipe area ) and the mod. programme to rectify the problem. I spent many "happy hours"
on 431 MU engaged in replacing those seals at Gutersloh ( happy days ! ) as part of a mod programme which also involved replacing the outboard drain collector box and also the fuel system seals. The tolerances for the latter around an expansion joint were so tight, they were X-rayed after fitment to ensure the gap was correct. There was, as I recall, also replacement of some associated bracketry due to vibration cracking. To give you an idea as to the depth of the programme, a team of 5 would work for 14 days solid ( other than for rest.....and the odd beer or two ) in order to complete the programme.
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Dorset
Krystal,
I was on 103MU at that time, same job, plus centre wing box fuel leak rectification, at least we had Keo to cool us down.
There was an article published some time after the incident with Wing Co Holden, Air Clues I think, the subsequent stress problems were caused by keeping a stiff upper lip at the time, the RAF MO reckoned that if he had let off steam at the time with a bottle of whisky he would have been ok, I'm not sure if that would be current medical advice.
It was certainly standard practice at the time that I worked on Lightnings to chain the nose leg to a ring set in the concrete on the run bay when carrying out power or reheat runs, in addition to the normal main wheel chocks.
I think that the engineering manhour/flying hour rate was something around 60 to 1 on the RAF Lightnings, so apart from the fuel bill the maintenance would cost a bomb to operate one today
Best regards,
om15
I was on 103MU at that time, same job, plus centre wing box fuel leak rectification, at least we had Keo to cool us down.
There was an article published some time after the incident with Wing Co Holden, Air Clues I think, the subsequent stress problems were caused by keeping a stiff upper lip at the time, the RAF MO reckoned that if he had let off steam at the time with a bottle of whisky he would have been ok, I'm not sure if that would be current medical advice.
It was certainly standard practice at the time that I worked on Lightnings to chain the nose leg to a ring set in the concrete on the run bay when carrying out power or reheat runs, in addition to the normal main wheel chocks.
I think that the engineering manhour/flying hour rate was something around 60 to 1 on the RAF Lightnings, so apart from the fuel bill the maintenance would cost a bomb to operate one today
Best regards,
om15
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
He managed to get it back on the ground OK, but suffered psychological trauma ever after.
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
If you want to buy a Jag, Harrier, wetdream, gnat, JP etc go here, they have lots available including engines.......... indeed you can pick up a helicopter cheap too
http://www.everettaero.com/
http://www.everettaero.com/
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: NOTTINGAHNSHIRE
Jaguar Pilot.
No worries, like I said they are both far from flight worthy, we just keep them going as safely as we can.
AW did many of our early taxy runs, but we havent seen him for a while
A real gentlman
No worries, like I said they are both far from flight worthy, we just keep them going as safely as we can.
AW did many of our early taxy runs, but we havent seen him for a while
A real gentlman
Joined: May 2007
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From: Nottinghamshire
I well remember being on 226 OCU in '68 at the tender age of 21 and the aeroplane did at the time seem "frightening".
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Bournemouth
AR1
JP..If i'd have had the keys to one of those at 21 I would have soiled myself - I had enough problems handling a Fiat 127.
It was the first reheat take-off which set the scene.
We only soiled ourselves looking at miniskirts - and kids these days think it's all so new......ahh, flower power, free love etc.....
To be fair, the Lightning handled well thanks mainly to a relatively lightly loaded wing and enough static and dynamic directional stability. Mind you, inertial roll/yaw coupling could be a problem at higher incidence.
Never had a Fiat. Did, however, have one of the first 3 litre Capris. No handling whatsoever - light back end with a live rear axle system designed by the Romans.
The 60s - Lightning by day (or night) + miniskirted nurses just down the road + cheap beer. The trick was to get them in the correct order!
JP
JP..If i'd have had the keys to one of those at 21 I would have soiled myself - I had enough problems handling a Fiat 127.
It was the first reheat take-off which set the scene.
We only soiled ourselves looking at miniskirts - and kids these days think it's all so new......ahh, flower power, free love etc.....
To be fair, the Lightning handled well thanks mainly to a relatively lightly loaded wing and enough static and dynamic directional stability. Mind you, inertial roll/yaw coupling could be a problem at higher incidence.
Never had a Fiat. Did, however, have one of the first 3 litre Capris. No handling whatsoever - light back end with a live rear axle system designed by the Romans.
The 60s - Lightning by day (or night) + miniskirted nurses just down the road + cheap beer. The trick was to get them in the correct order!
JP
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: western europe
From my experience if they are not moulded and bolted to the ground the 'Luv's' would either 'eat' them or 'pinch' them' .....
As for the Avon ...... I'm gone from it now but in my time I would die before I would let anyone harm/remove it !!!! .....
ps. and it's still on site after something like twenty years .....
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Well, Lincolnshire
The Holden experience has been told many times.
Lightning XM135, inadvertant flight by W/Cdr Holden - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
Still 'frightening' though.
Lightning XM135, inadvertant flight by W/Cdr Holden - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
Still 'frightening' though.
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: Australia
Not that I have looked into it for myself but I believe that it is possible (mony notwithstanding) to fly a lightening or any other warbird in Australia. Not that, that helps you much if you are living in the UK but if you were thinking of moving down under...
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: A Fine City
341 Lightning’s were built (4 of which static test airframes which never flew). Hence 337 Lightning airframes flew including P.1A/B prototypes and P.1B/F Mk 1 pre-production airframes.
76 RAF Lightning’s crashed or SOC after flying/taxing accidents, ground fires and one from mercury contamination. Another 18 lost by other airforces (Kuwait and Saudi), plus another 4 lost from the pre-production batch.
Gives a total figure of 98
(98/337)x100= 29.08%
76 RAF Lightning’s crashed or SOC after flying/taxing accidents, ground fires and one from mercury contamination. Another 18 lost by other airforces (Kuwait and Saudi), plus another 4 lost from the pre-production batch.
Gives a total figure of 98
(98/337)x100= 29.08%
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: London
I believe that it is possible (mony notwithstanding) to fly a lightening or any other warbird in Australia.
Cape Town, three months ago.
(Not my pics. Mine weren't as good as these.)
One of the Lightnings broke the sound barrier at >15,000 feet.
An air show spokesman said they received numerous complaints.
"We just wanted to demonstrate what it sounds like to break the sound barrier. It has two distinct noises, one after the other."
That's the spirit.
