SAR privatisation
Join Date: Apr 2002
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3D Cam: The M.C.A. will be the tasking agency pretty much like now
This is NOT...
pretty much like now
The MCA does not have the experience, nor expertise, to take on the role that is currently carried out by the ARCC.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Greetings
I have resisted commenting for a time but....
SAR-H is a service provision PFI for the entire UK. Not just out to sea but for the entire UK.
The replacement service will be "no less capable than the current service" thats a requirement not a request.
Neither the SAR-H IPT, the CG or military will task assets(ok not strictly true when you read the next bit). That still falls to the ARCC as this element is OUTSIDE the scope of the project. SO.....
calm down!
As for Sheffield, well done all. Yellow, grey red and white all could do it, all have done it all will do it in the future. The H in SAR H is harmonised i.e. all capable of completing any rescue. Not 60 yds or 60 miles inshore but anytime anyplace anywhere - actually thats quite catchy for the new service. Lets call it ... well for those old enough you know what I mean. For those that dont , go to bed its way past your bed time!
And one other thing. There is military in SAR-H, just less than currently is in the SAR service. So get off your soap boxes.
As for having a go at the MCA rep in the SAR-H IPT, why, the chap has a job to do and is doing it. I notice none of you mentioned the 2 uniformed military chaps or the fact that the IPT civil staff are part of the MOD civil service [if there is such a thing]. Stop looking for conspiracies! You need to look behind you more first!
Now can we all calm down and get back to the serious job of getting Crabb to bite again.
So, the new paint scheme, what colour. Takes step back, takes cover and retreats to corner.
Mind you Crabb will be at the SAR conference I bet.
SAR-H is a service provision PFI for the entire UK. Not just out to sea but for the entire UK.
The replacement service will be "no less capable than the current service" thats a requirement not a request.
Neither the SAR-H IPT, the CG or military will task assets(ok not strictly true when you read the next bit). That still falls to the ARCC as this element is OUTSIDE the scope of the project. SO.....
calm down!
As for Sheffield, well done all. Yellow, grey red and white all could do it, all have done it all will do it in the future. The H in SAR H is harmonised i.e. all capable of completing any rescue. Not 60 yds or 60 miles inshore but anytime anyplace anywhere - actually thats quite catchy for the new service. Lets call it ... well for those old enough you know what I mean. For those that dont , go to bed its way past your bed time!
And one other thing. There is military in SAR-H, just less than currently is in the SAR service. So get off your soap boxes.
As for having a go at the MCA rep in the SAR-H IPT, why, the chap has a job to do and is doing it. I notice none of you mentioned the 2 uniformed military chaps or the fact that the IPT civil staff are part of the MOD civil service [if there is such a thing]. Stop looking for conspiracies! You need to look behind you more first!
Now can we all calm down and get back to the serious job of getting Crabb to bite again.
So, the new paint scheme, what colour. Takes step back, takes cover and retreats to corner.
Mind you Crabb will be at the SAR conference I bet.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Slow news day in Cornwall?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/7062143.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/7062143.stm
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Is this a record for the longest delayed response?
SARREMF,
The H in SAR H stands for Helicopter not Harmonised. If you read HAL 9000's post, he/she does state that there should be no embedded MCA or military personnel within the SAR H IPT in order to ensure objectivity.
Good to see Mike Trace, one of the nicest chaps ever to serve in the light blue, pointing out the deficiencies in the SAR H requirement.
Must dash as I definitely need to get out more.
Fay.
The H in SAR H stands for Helicopter not Harmonised. If you read HAL 9000's post, he/she does state that there should be no embedded MCA or military personnel within the SAR H IPT in order to ensure objectivity.
Good to see Mike Trace, one of the nicest chaps ever to serve in the light blue, pointing out the deficiencies in the SAR H requirement.
Must dash as I definitely need to get out more.
Fay.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Boscastle
7 SAR helicopters attended the Boscastle incident. Slow news day in Cornwall, but not in Scotland.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/default.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/default.stm
Jonnyloove - there will inevitably be a mix of aircraft - I think most bidders will have 2 types in their fleet, one for long range/big lift and another for short range/coastal work. The Interim CG contract is using S92 and AB139 but there are all sorts of other combinations that may be offered, including 101s.
As for impartiality in SAR H, you would have to start the whole process over again and achieve nothing by doing it. Whatever the best theoretical solution is, the actual result will be driven by politics.
SARREMF - yes I was there and yes, my head did hurt the next day
As for impartiality in SAR H, you would have to start the whole process over again and achieve nothing by doing it. Whatever the best theoretical solution is, the actual result will be driven by politics.
SARREMF - yes I was there and yes, my head did hurt the next day
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Crab,
You seem to be the man in the know and also one of the more passionate posters on this thread. Unashamedly fishing for a potential second career, but how does a non-SARTU (but experienced ex-military operator) get his foot in the door with the civilianisation of SAR.
Will it be a simple case of one day people in one uniform and the next day, all civvie - or will there be a shortage of SAR pilots and those outside of the current SAR aircrew pool will be open to apply for SAR positions/and SAR training.
Any advice/guidance?
You seem to be the man in the know and also one of the more passionate posters on this thread. Unashamedly fishing for a potential second career, but how does a non-SARTU (but experienced ex-military operator) get his foot in the door with the civilianisation of SAR.
Will it be a simple case of one day people in one uniform and the next day, all civvie - or will there be a shortage of SAR pilots and those outside of the current SAR aircrew pool will be open to apply for SAR positions/and SAR training.
Any advice/guidance?
Maroonman4 - whatever happens will be determined by the eventual make-up of UK SAR; if there is less military involvement (very likely at the moment) then the pilots will have to come from somewhere.
However, those of us in the military job at the moment should not delude ourselves that CHC or whoever will come knocking at our doors offering rock-star wages just because we are self-proclaimed SAR gods. The fact is that cockpits can be filled with less experienced and cheaper pilots as long as the job description allows it. Who will write the job description? The CAA, the MCA, the contractor or the Home Office? Who actually knows enough about the role and required skill-set for a SAR pilot?
If there is a shortage of SAR pilots, then either the military will give them up (not willingly I'll wager, we have enough retention problems at the moment) or those who are not SAR experienced will magically become so thanks to waivers/experience in other relevant fields etc.
RAF SAR requires completion of SARTU (at some stage) the SK OCU and then 18 months as a co pilot before becoming a SAR captain - doubtless many will claim this is a gold-plated, over the top requirement but it has worked pretty well for many years.
Is it possible to produce a SAR captain in less time and with less training? Probably, but will the product be as good? Air Ambulance and Police pilots don't get role training, just type training and everything else is completed 'on-the-job' - that is the harsh commercial reality when pennies are being counted and I won't be surprised to see the same attitude prevailing if and when SAR is completely privatised.
I'm guessing you are ex-AAC from your location so you have as much chance as any - apply (if you have your licence) and see what they will give you.
However, those of us in the military job at the moment should not delude ourselves that CHC or whoever will come knocking at our doors offering rock-star wages just because we are self-proclaimed SAR gods. The fact is that cockpits can be filled with less experienced and cheaper pilots as long as the job description allows it. Who will write the job description? The CAA, the MCA, the contractor or the Home Office? Who actually knows enough about the role and required skill-set for a SAR pilot?
If there is a shortage of SAR pilots, then either the military will give them up (not willingly I'll wager, we have enough retention problems at the moment) or those who are not SAR experienced will magically become so thanks to waivers/experience in other relevant fields etc.
RAF SAR requires completion of SARTU (at some stage) the SK OCU and then 18 months as a co pilot before becoming a SAR captain - doubtless many will claim this is a gold-plated, over the top requirement but it has worked pretty well for many years.
Is it possible to produce a SAR captain in less time and with less training? Probably, but will the product be as good? Air Ambulance and Police pilots don't get role training, just type training and everything else is completed 'on-the-job' - that is the harsh commercial reality when pennies are being counted and I won't be surprised to see the same attitude prevailing if and when SAR is completely privatised.
I'm guessing you are ex-AAC from your location so you have as much chance as any - apply (if you have your licence) and see what they will give you.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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What sort of helicopter?
Depending on the consortium chosen, now down to 3 as Bond/Westlands have withdrawn, the aircraft proposed are: S92 + AW139, EH101 + AW139, EC225 + AW139. Whoever gets the contract it will at least mean modern reliable helicopters, that's got to be a good thing. As for crew training, it certainly wont be the gold plated but arguably wasteful Service standard but the bidders aren't stupid or incompetent and they have been providing a good service for quite a few years (Bristows, CHC), so they are not likely to employ incompetents.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Privatised SAR based at St Mawgan maybe?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/7062908.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/7062908.stm
Leopold - but they don't have experience of NVG ops, especially overland and it is this area where lack of knowledge or experience from regulators and operators could prove problematic.
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NVG etc
There is no "They" yet, when there is "they" will probably consist of quite a few ex-mil sarboys/SH etc who will have the requisite experience. Besides we all started with zero NVG experience and managed not to kill ourselves. If a commercial company needs a particular skill-set they will simply buy it in. The companies in the running for SARH have quite a few ex-mil personnel on their books and they are very aware of all of the problems and concerns.
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Looks like St Mawgan is out given the current move to an all new facility at Valley! Anyone else heard about the SK 3 simulator instructor jobs being privatised? If so any details?
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Leopold,
Would those ex-mil SAR boys now championing the ability of civvy SAR contractors be the same ones who were the most vociferous in their denunciation of civilian SAR in their previous lives?
I wonder what has happened to change their minds so completely?
If only their views when in the military could have been recorded for posterity. It would be great to see them having to explain their about turn.
Fay
Would those ex-mil SAR boys now championing the ability of civvy SAR contractors be the same ones who were the most vociferous in their denunciation of civilian SAR in their previous lives?
I wonder what has happened to change their minds so completely?
If only their views when in the military could have been recorded for posterity. It would be great to see them having to explain their about turn.
Fay
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Hi Leopold
Just confirm that Westlands are out as SAR-H bidders? That's fairly major news.
I heard a rumour today that the IPT have downselected to 2 bidders - anybody know if this is true?
Sven
Just confirm that Westlands are out as SAR-H bidders? That's fairly major news.
I heard a rumour today that the IPT have downselected to 2 bidders - anybody know if this is true?
Sven
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Crab,
Me - ex-AAC - how very dare you
I know my location might lead you to that conclusion - but no I am not!
But back to your advice - and I am due out very shortly, licence in the bag with twin SH experience, and few other qualifications (hence my interest)...
So you reckon it is as simple as send my CV to CHC HR department through the links/contacts on their web site?
Thanks - sorry to be so dim but after spending 20+ years in the military this whole CV malarky is new to me and I would really like the option to explore a SAR career.
What is the outsiders best guess for a live 'switch on' of the civvie SAR capability or like most projects with IPTs this is a moveable feast that may slip.
If am coming across as dull then apologies, I am!
Me - ex-AAC - how very dare you
I know my location might lead you to that conclusion - but no I am not!
But back to your advice - and I am due out very shortly, licence in the bag with twin SH experience, and few other qualifications (hence my interest)...
So you reckon it is as simple as send my CV to CHC HR department through the links/contacts on their web site?
Thanks - sorry to be so dim but after spending 20+ years in the military this whole CV malarky is new to me and I would really like the option to explore a SAR career.
What is the outsiders best guess for a live 'switch on' of the civvie SAR capability or like most projects with IPTs this is a moveable feast that may slip.
If am coming across as dull then apologies, I am!