Nimrod Information
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Nimrod Information
In recent weeks there has been much talk (even in the Commons) of the number of serious Nimrod bomb bay fuel leaks that have occurred since the XV230 incident, many after AAR. But it is obvious to everyone that bomb bay fuel leaks did not start on 2nd Sept 2006, the accident simply brought an ongoing issue to a head.
I understand the XV230 had fuel leak problems before the accident, but the cause and rectification had become routine within the fleet. The only reason why flying could continue in the Gulf on 3rd Sept (next day), was because the likely cause was known and checks revealed that the a/c required to fly was considered low risk.
It's a case of operations before safety.
DV
I understand the XV230 had fuel leak problems before the accident, but the cause and rectification had become routine within the fleet. The only reason why flying could continue in the Gulf on 3rd Sept (next day), was because the likely cause was known and checks revealed that the a/c required to fly was considered low risk.
It's a case of operations before safety.
DV
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Nimrod Aircraft
Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) whether he has received representations on the safety of Nimrod aircraft from fleet flight crew since September 2006; [126588]
(2) whether he received representations on the safety of the Nimrod fleet before September 2006; [126589]
(3) what representations he has received on the use of fuel lines on Nimrod aircraft. [126481]
Mr. Ingram: Representations has been defined as parliamentary questions and letters from third parties to Ministers.
Defence Ministers did not receive any official representations on the safety of the Nimrod fleet or the use of fuel lines on Nimrod aircraft from
Since September 2006, whilst Defence Ministers have received official representations on the safety of Nimrod aircraft from members of the public, none of these referred to the use of fuel lines on the aircraft. I have no evidence to suggest that any of these representations were from serving flight crew.
In recent weeks the Department has received three requests under the Freedom of Information Act on the safety of Nimrod aircraft and on the use of fuel lines on the aircraft. There is no evidence to suggest that any of these requests are from serving flight crew.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmhansrd/cm070420/text/70420w0003.htm#07042031000045
Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) whether he has received representations on the safety of Nimrod aircraft from fleet flight crew since September 2006; [126588]
(2) whether he received representations on the safety of the Nimrod fleet before September 2006; [126589]
(3) what representations he has received on the use of fuel lines on Nimrod aircraft. [126481]
Mr. Ingram: Representations has been defined as parliamentary questions and letters from third parties to Ministers.
Defence Ministers did not receive any official representations on the safety of the Nimrod fleet or the use of fuel lines on Nimrod aircraft from
Since September 2006, whilst Defence Ministers have received official representations on the safety of Nimrod aircraft from members of the public, none of these referred to the use of fuel lines on the aircraft. I have no evidence to suggest that any of these representations were from serving flight crew.
In recent weeks the Department has received three requests under the Freedom of Information Act on the safety of Nimrod aircraft and on the use of fuel lines on the aircraft. There is no evidence to suggest that any of these requests are from serving flight crew.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmhansrd/cm070420/text/70420w0003.htm#07042031000045
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Emergency landing at airport 6th July 2006
Emergency landing at airport 6th July 2006
An RAF 'Nimrod' aircraft encountered an unspecified problem when landing at Gibraltar yesterday afternoon, with the MOD saying it was 'a minor emergency'.
It is known that the aircraft approached Gibraltar shedding fuel, some of which was sprawled over the runway and required the RAF fire service to hose down and make the runway clean and safe.
It is not clear if the aircraft had to release its fuel due to weight considerations on landing, or whether it developed a leak.
Does anyone know if it was the XV230 as my son did a fly past in July 2006 over Gibraltar
An RAF 'Nimrod' aircraft encountered an unspecified problem when landing at Gibraltar yesterday afternoon, with the MOD saying it was 'a minor emergency'.
It is known that the aircraft approached Gibraltar shedding fuel, some of which was sprawled over the runway and required the RAF fire service to hose down and make the runway clean and safe.
It is not clear if the aircraft had to release its fuel due to weight considerations on landing, or whether it developed a leak.
Does anyone know if it was the XV230 as my son did a fly past in July 2006 over Gibraltar
Tappers Dad
Not sure which aircraft it was or what the problem was, however the following are several reasons why this could have happened: The landing distance available at Gib is somewhere around 5700 feet. This is not very long for a heavy aircraft to stop on before either the brakes fail and/or it goes for a dip in the Med. If the aircraft had a problem that required it to be landed sooner rather than later, fuel would have been deliberately dumped to reduce the all up weight during its positioning for an approach. Nimrods are also notorious for venting fuel when the tanks are reasonably full, particularly when it is warm (eg Gib in July). It is therefore possible that the fuel "leak" may have been normal venting that continued after the aircraft landed.
Of course, it could have been a large fuel leak.
Hope this helps and sorry I don't know what actually happened.
Of course, it could have been a large fuel leak.
Hope this helps and sorry I don't know what actually happened.
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Tapper's dad - Firstly and most importantly my most sincere condolences to you and your family. I spent 2 years up at Kinloss and loved every minute of it. This is my first post on the site but I may be able offer some info. I was on a trip to Gib where we performed a flypast with your son's crew but that was in mid-late June. It was for some big celebration in the main square in Gib (I hope this helps to narrow down the dates). If this is the same trip you refer to, we did not fly in XV230 and we did not experience any emergency. We did return back to Kinloss earlier than expected, det should have been a week and turned into just a couple of days. I hope this helps.
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Tappers Dad, the aircraft concerned was not XV230.
The "incident" at Gibraltar was due to an electric actuator on one of the 4A fuel tank failing after jettison which prevented the 4A tank jettison valve from closing.
RIP CXX/3
The "incident" at Gibraltar was due to an electric actuator on one of the 4A fuel tank failing after jettison which prevented the 4A tank jettison valve from closing.
RIP CXX/3
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WHY
Thanks Guys you have helped. I suppose I am trying to find the reason why they all died. I now the aircraft exploded but I need to know why, not the BOI type of why but the Dad type. Why my boy, why that aircraft, why did it leak,why couldn't they stop the fire, why can't I talk to him anymore. And why is everyone so tight lipped.
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From the House of Lords
Baroness Sharples: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. Will he comment on reports that the refurbished fleet of Nimrods in Afghanistan will have the same fuel system as caused the disaster with the loss of 14 personnel last year?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, the noble Baroness will understand that I am not able to comment on that because the board of inquiry into the loss of the Nimrod has not reported; of course, I will be able to once that has taken place
Mmmmmm makes you think
Baroness Sharples: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. Will he comment on reports that the refurbished fleet of Nimrods in Afghanistan will have the same fuel system as caused the disaster with the loss of 14 personnel last year?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, the noble Baroness will understand that I am not able to comment on that because the board of inquiry into the loss of the Nimrod has not reported; of course, I will be able to once that has taken place
Mmmmmm makes you think
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On 8th Nov 2006 a Nimrod landed safely, after AAR, with a major fuel leak. At first glance it seems similar to the incident on 2nd Sept (XV230), all that was missing was the ignition source. Does anyone know what the investigation of this incident revealed?
DV
DV
Last edited by Distant Voice; 27th Apr 2007 at 15:22.
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Mr. Ingram: Representations has been defined as parliamentary questions and letters from third parties to Ministers.
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Nimrod Information / Panorama Mon 4th June (Merged)
"My name is Ian Liddell-Grainger and I am the constituency MP of Ben Knight, one of the RAF airmen who died in the XV230 Nimrod crash near Kandahar last year. Since the incident, I have been made aware of concerns among air force personnel about a range of issues concerning the Nimrod aircraft and the fleet. I have visited aircrews in the Gulf and I have raised the issue in Parliament recently. I am very interested in hearing more from those within the RAF, especially from people who have concerns about the state of the fleet in the Gulf and Afghanistan. Please contact me in the strictest confidence at my email address [email protected]. I guarantee to maintain the complete confidentiality of individuals. If you prefer to telephone my direct line at Westminster is: 0207 219 8149"
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Help yourselves
Thank you for all your support Ian and all the questions you have asked about safety in the House Of Commons.
Here is a little part of his recent speech.
"I am always struck by the enormous enthusiasm and resilience of our soldiers and airmen. They make it their business to get the job done in some of the most hostile terrain in the world, even though they are unfortunately often without the proper kit. Our people are performing daily miracles in these places and they deserve the united applause and support of this House—I know that they get it."
"They also deserve the Government’s support in all shapes and forms, especially through procurement. That means providing more than the bare minimum. I have no doubt that the Minister will respond, as we all sometimes do, by reeling off huge, impressive-sounding figures to show how much has been spent and what has happened. We all accept that defence is always expensive; everybody is aware that even the bare minimum does not come cheap. My argument is that we are in danger of cutting too many corners and of procuring nothing but danger for the very people who courageously carry the flag for this country."
Here is a little part of his recent speech.
"I am always struck by the enormous enthusiasm and resilience of our soldiers and airmen. They make it their business to get the job done in some of the most hostile terrain in the world, even though they are unfortunately often without the proper kit. Our people are performing daily miracles in these places and they deserve the united applause and support of this House—I know that they get it."
"They also deserve the Government’s support in all shapes and forms, especially through procurement. That means providing more than the bare minimum. I have no doubt that the Minister will respond, as we all sometimes do, by reeling off huge, impressive-sounding figures to show how much has been spent and what has happened. We all accept that defence is always expensive; everybody is aware that even the bare minimum does not come cheap. My argument is that we are in danger of cutting too many corners and of procuring nothing but danger for the very people who courageously carry the flag for this country."
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Ian,
I will call you within the next couple of days.
TSM
Come on guys, this is the opportunity many of us have been waiting for - contact this chap and lets try to stop this ever happening again. We owe it to all the friends we've lost surely?
I will call you within the next couple of days.
TSM
Come on guys, this is the opportunity many of us have been waiting for - contact this chap and lets try to stop this ever happening again. We owe it to all the friends we've lost surely?
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Yes, we are all duty bound to question and challenge failings within our system, so as to minimise the loss of life in an inherently dangerous environment. However, this is not the path that we should choose to take to achieve this.
I am appalled that a sitting MP should post such a Thread.
I am appalled that a sitting MP should post such a Thread.
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Yes, we are all duty bound to question and challenge failings within our system, so as to minimise the loss of life in an inherently dangerous environment.
However, this is not the path that we should choose to take to achieve this.
I am appalled that a sitting MP should post such a Thread.
That is what they're there for, and I applaud the honourable MP for offering his assistance.
Finally, lets have some Justice for Sgt Ben Knight, and all the others who've been injured or killed, due to lack of proper equipment.
Level 28's comments remind me of the inadequately testiculated so-called leaders who were petrified of the grass roots truth getting outside the 'chain of command'....
....and compromising their onward and upward thrust of ambition - and b*gger the truth
Not that I'm advocating anarchy, more that the constipating "There are correct channels" nonsense should be ignored, when that is clearly going nowhere as the Ministerial platitudes exhibit only too clearly.
Good on Ian Lidell-Grainger - an MP who is openly prepared to bypass the MoD's $hit-filters is a rare asset indeed.....
....and compromising their onward and upward thrust of ambition - and b*gger the truth Not that I'm advocating anarchy, more that the constipating "There are correct channels" nonsense should be ignored, when that is clearly going nowhere as the Ministerial platitudes exhibit only too clearly.
Good on Ian Lidell-Grainger - an MP who is openly prepared to bypass the MoD's $hit-filters is a rare asset indeed.....
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well said
i thinks it great a mp who actually takes a proper intrest in what the people who work with these aircraft actually have to say.
as a member of the armed forces i am appualled by the treatment of us by the goverment.
ive recently been told by higher authority that my trade is to be made obsolete because its a non deployable trade meaning there is no operational need for us in places like afgan and iraq. however we do work in akotiri and falklands where there is an established post for our trade. which are now closed to us.
so for those who have not left or are waiting to leave the trade. we are going to be sent to hubs where they are going to gather the last of our trade so we can see our time out.
but here is the part which is the kick in the teeth we will be used to go out to afgan and iraq as driver escort and guards. and while we are at the hubs we will be in/wating/just back from these places.
its just a mess please someone sort it out
as a member of the armed forces i am appualled by the treatment of us by the goverment.
ive recently been told by higher authority that my trade is to be made obsolete because its a non deployable trade meaning there is no operational need for us in places like afgan and iraq. however we do work in akotiri and falklands where there is an established post for our trade. which are now closed to us.
so for those who have not left or are waiting to leave the trade. we are going to be sent to hubs where they are going to gather the last of our trade so we can see our time out.
but here is the part which is the kick in the teeth we will be used to go out to afgan and iraq as driver escort and guards. and while we are at the hubs we will be in/wating/just back from these places.
its just a mess please someone sort it out
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Well the official channels are obviously working aren't they Level 28?!
Well done Mr Liddell-Grainger, you have accepted that the RAF is screwed and that the Nimrod is one of the areas that is suffering badly right now.
We look to you to fulfil your honour and keep your duty by ensuring our servicemen get the representation they deserve from someone who won't let the matter drop.
Well done Mr Liddell-Grainger, you have accepted that the RAF is screwed and that the Nimrod is one of the areas that is suffering badly right now.
We look to you to fulfil your honour and keep your duty by ensuring our servicemen get the representation they deserve from someone who won't let the matter drop.
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Level 28
I'm disgusted by your comments, and if anyone is appalled, it will be the majority on here who will read your utterly pointless contribution to this thread.
It seems to me that this is the perfect thing for the RAF at the moment; an MP who can take the problems of the service directly to the House of Commons and, hopefully, get things sorted out, and I applaud him for having the balls to offer his services. I would only encourage others to give him a call or send him a PM.
The only reason I can think that anyone would disagree is if perhaps you have something to hide maybe??
TSM
ps, Level 28, what would be your prefered path?
I'm disgusted by your comments, and if anyone is appalled, it will be the majority on here who will read your utterly pointless contribution to this thread.
It seems to me that this is the perfect thing for the RAF at the moment; an MP who can take the problems of the service directly to the House of Commons and, hopefully, get things sorted out, and I applaud him for having the balls to offer his services. I would only encourage others to give him a call or send him a PM.
The only reason I can think that anyone would disagree is if perhaps you have something to hide maybe??
TSM
ps, Level 28, what would be your prefered path?