Captured Personnel Permitted to Tell Stories for Money
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Victims, not heroes
Not for the first time in the Tony B Liar era, the general public and the press appear confused. IMHO all the captured service personnel were victims, rather than heroes and I believe we should differentiate between the two. If any of them has a shred of decency they will keep their memories of what happened to them during this sad, sorry incident out of the public domain. Of course they should be thoroughly de-briefed so that their experiences can be recorded and used to inform other personnel who might have to face a similar situation in future. However, a spate of service personnel displaying emotional incontinence in print and probably on TV will do nothing for the standing of the armed forces and is an insult to all those who have been killed or wounded in this conflict.
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They are on two weeks leave to "recuperate and recover". Apparently this also includes finding an agent and flogging their stories around the press. Pitiful. If they are fit enough for that, they should be back on a plane (NOT first class) to the ship were the rest of the crew are having to cover duties, watches and work for them.
Does it say "government puppet" in their job descriptions - and does the Official Secrets Act and "contact with the press" no longer count?
Does it say "government puppet" in their job descriptions - and does the Official Secrets Act and "contact with the press" no longer count?
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The behaviour of the hostages while in captivity is down to their briefing, interpretation of orders, training or the lack of it, and their own conscience. I cannot knock any of their actions as I wasn't there and didn't share their fears or worries. debrief will fall on others well above my pay grade.
HOWEVER, to give interviews to any part of the media, and accept payment for that, while serving, goes against everything and sickens me.
Whether I agree with the right or wrong of the conficts is immaterial. On the day of their release there was a repatriation ceremony and the news of four more military deaths and the death of a civilian interpreter. That is a large number of family and friends in mourning, awaiting the pain of the eventual repatriation, the suffering and grief at the funerals, the anguish of waiting for inquests.
Anyone making money from this incident, whether it goes to a charity or not, may have money in the bank but they have no dignity.
HOWEVER, to give interviews to any part of the media, and accept payment for that, while serving, goes against everything and sickens me.
Whether I agree with the right or wrong of the conficts is immaterial. On the day of their release there was a repatriation ceremony and the news of four more military deaths and the death of a civilian interpreter. That is a large number of family and friends in mourning, awaiting the pain of the eventual repatriation, the suffering and grief at the funerals, the anguish of waiting for inquests.
Anyone making money from this incident, whether it goes to a charity or not, may have money in the bank but they have no dignity.
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It seems that Royal is going to pool their money, and give 10% to a Service Charity, whilst Jack and Jenny are going to keep theirs. Not for long, no doubt, once public opinion turns against them. Shameful state of affairs, but they will realise once they are back on the messdecks and the error of their ways is explained to them if they do not donate at least some of the cash.
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Of course the NuLab MoD wants to turn this into a reality TV meeja circus, they are masters of spin. While the Great British Press wallows in personal tragedies, photo opps and post-feminist discussions of who's minding the baby; no-one will be asking the real questions such as why has the RN been reduced to such a state that we have people trying to operate unsupported in dangerous waters with a few rubber boats, pistols and Palitoy SA80s between them? Especially after the IRG had boasted beforehand that they wanted some western captives in retaliation for their men captured by the US in Iraq.
There's a reason the IRG thought the UK Forces were the soft touch of the coalition.
There's a reason the IRG thought the UK Forces were the soft touch of the coalition.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Iran - Simply a payback of our Investment
I struggle somewhat with the theatrical outrage expressed here along with the accusations of disloyalty or lack of integrity by these individuals. They were simply a small interlude in a long running act of international deceit and moral bankruptcy by this Government. They were captured and treated a lot less cruelly or randomly than we have done so, or aided and abetted others to do so, in that masterful brush stroke of all-encompassing guilt currently known as "The Global War on Terror", and unlike hundreds of others, they have at least been released by the Iranians. We stomp around the Globe like it was 1856 all over again and act all surprised when someone takes issue with that. Apparently we are now just learning that behaving like despots, or more accurately, aligning ourselves with people that do, may indeed have consequences for our moral standing in the world.
Other poster have alluded to the "shoddy" conduct after capture of these individuals and drawn parallels with WWII POW's. That parallel is both hugely insulting and disingenuous. Those earlier personnel were not representing an opportunistic spin-artist and his megalomaniac buddies in the USA, they never questioned the legality of why they were in a theater of operations, they always knew their actions were rightful and virtuous. By comparison, the recent guests of Mr Ahmadinejad were stopping internationally flagged vessels in an area where the boundaries had many, many, years of documented vagueness and opacity; supporting the actions of 2 Western Powers (save your breath even mentioning ''coalition") who are desperately trying to halt a civil war ignited and fomented by their own actions, adjacent to a country that has had its history altered forever by the actions of those same 2 Western Powers.
Why would you assume the moral high ground and righteous indignation if you were one of those 15 personnel? You are nothing but the agent of war-mongers and international bullying. They should spend every penny of their windfalls with a clear conscience and consider it a fair price for being a mercenary of those who would profit from delivering global misery while claiming to be fighting "The Global War on Terror".
There is indeed much shame from this episode, and it can all be traced right back to Tony and his Special Relationship.
Other poster have alluded to the "shoddy" conduct after capture of these individuals and drawn parallels with WWII POW's. That parallel is both hugely insulting and disingenuous. Those earlier personnel were not representing an opportunistic spin-artist and his megalomaniac buddies in the USA, they never questioned the legality of why they were in a theater of operations, they always knew their actions were rightful and virtuous. By comparison, the recent guests of Mr Ahmadinejad were stopping internationally flagged vessels in an area where the boundaries had many, many, years of documented vagueness and opacity; supporting the actions of 2 Western Powers (save your breath even mentioning ''coalition") who are desperately trying to halt a civil war ignited and fomented by their own actions, adjacent to a country that has had its history altered forever by the actions of those same 2 Western Powers.
Why would you assume the moral high ground and righteous indignation if you were one of those 15 personnel? You are nothing but the agent of war-mongers and international bullying. They should spend every penny of their windfalls with a clear conscience and consider it a fair price for being a mercenary of those who would profit from delivering global misery while claiming to be fighting "The Global War on Terror".
There is indeed much shame from this episode, and it can all be traced right back to Tony and his Special Relationship.
I wish I was in the Navy:
Just think, how many will volunteer to man the shipping checking boats when this resumes,
Great Idea:
Get in patrol boat, hand yourselves in to the Iranians, have two weeks holiday, fly home first class, sell your story, and never have to do it again.
JK Rowling couldn't have thought of a better script.
Great Idea:
Get in patrol boat, hand yourselves in to the Iranians, have two weeks holiday, fly home first class, sell your story, and never have to do it again.
JK Rowling couldn't have thought of a better script.
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Day 13 of The Iranian Hostage Crisis - The Eviction
Given his sense of humour and choice of subjects, I'm getting more and more convinced Beau Bo D'Or is late of HM Forces.
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FFS. How impressively tall people's horses are.
That the MOD's decision is appalling, there can be no doubt. But to blame the individuals and to use terms like "holiday in Iran" to describe their ordeal is a bit unfair. I don't think it's fair to blame them because some misguided civil serpent tore up decades of procedure and military impartiality in this way.
I agree, those who have any sense of dignity will turn down the cash or, as Lt Carman has said, will donate it to charity. Surely, though, there is no justification in diminishing their ordeals because some fool at Main Bldg decided the sensible thing to do would be to generate an even larger media circus by making such a wrongheaded decision?
Aaaah... so, they got caught on purpose or through lack of courage? Is this man talking about the same story of illegal Iranian piracy as everyone else?
That the MOD's decision is appalling, there can be no doubt. But to blame the individuals and to use terms like "holiday in Iran" to describe their ordeal is a bit unfair. I don't think it's fair to blame them because some misguided civil serpent tore up decades of procedure and military impartiality in this way.
I agree, those who have any sense of dignity will turn down the cash or, as Lt Carman has said, will donate it to charity. Surely, though, there is no justification in diminishing their ordeals because some fool at Main Bldg decided the sensible thing to do would be to generate an even larger media circus by making such a wrongheaded decision?
Ex-FCO twit Craig Murray: The idea that you can make several years' pay out of being captured - as opposed to not being captured and doing your job normally - is a rather strange incentive system.
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Jees two's in; I take my hat off to you. You have summed up in a couple of paras all the reasons why I was so glad to go before the start of the Iraq war-stellar posting. It is neat that Big Brother Britain finally links up with UK Armed Forces. If ever anyone was thinking of leaving surely this is the final nail. What is the point in slaving away in Iraq for another 5 years when everyone else is having a good time in Blair's Britain?
The lunatics have definitely taken over. The MoD will regret this. All those contracts signed by SF personnel should be burned. This will turn into a free for all.
Morons.
The lunatics have definitely taken over. The MoD will regret this. All those contracts signed by SF personnel should be burned. This will turn into a free for all.
Morons.
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Two's In
With your attitude, why do you read this forum? Let's remember which nation led this affair! Oh - yours! This has nothing to do with government policy - the UK military is non-political. This has to do with military code - one which has sttod us well in the past and which, if over turned, will cause many problems in the future.
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Very, very dangerous precedent.
MOD has just opened itself up to all sorts of representations in the future.
Just wait for the next time something unpleasant happens to a Serviceman/woman and they don't get to make a buck or 100,000 out of it.
MOD has just opened itself up to all sorts of representations in the future.
Just wait for the next time something unpleasant happens to a Serviceman/woman and they don't get to make a buck or 100,000 out of it.
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I don't blame the guys and girl for cashing in if they are allowed/encouraged to do so! 100k would be more than enough for me to bang in the PVR and look for a new job.
What is wrong is that they are being allowed to do so!!!! WRONG WRONG WRONG! THERE ARE FAR MORE EXCITING AND ENDURING STORIES OF COURAGE ( oops caps lock!) out there to be told but a nobody is trying to and B they aren't allowed under the official secrets act.
Pigskingamabob the tornado aircrew you refer to waited till they left the mob before they cashed in, and were significantly worse treated than the 15 Naval personnel.
What is wrong is that they are being allowed to do so!!!! WRONG WRONG WRONG! THERE ARE FAR MORE EXCITING AND ENDURING STORIES OF COURAGE ( oops caps lock!) out there to be told but a nobody is trying to and B they aren't allowed under the official secrets act.
Pigskingamabob the tornado aircrew you refer to waited till they left the mob before they cashed in, and were significantly worse treated than the 15 Naval personnel.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Navibrator, allow me to be a little self indulgent with simply a point of reference only, but the poster's details say "Location", and not "affiliation"; so as touched as I am by your assertion that I am in some way behind the imperialist running dogs of the Great Satan, I am sadly just another retired warrior, who religiously polishes my commissioning scroll from Betty Windsor every night, thinking wistfully of the good old days when men were men, and wars were fought for wholly defensible reasons. I am also well under 50 and still have many colleagues exposed to the dangers and risks of combat every single day. When I sign myself "Retired Military" it is simply an expression of loyalty and respect to every serving member of HM Forces, Light Blue, Dark Blue or Green (red trousers of course for Late Cavalry). As a civilian, I also reserve and exploit the right the say exactly what I think of the charlatans and opportunists that laughingly pass for a UK Government these days.
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At the end of the day, the MoD has no real power to stop anyone writing a book about their time in the forces and making money from it.
Looking for Trouble
Bravo Two Zero
Tornado Down
Sea Harrier over the Falklands
etc etc.
IMHO, the real issue is the MoD believing that it has the right to stop these people telling their stories. I don't think the Official Secrets Act would cover any aspect of the Royal Marine's and Mateloe's time in Iranian hands.
Let them earn a few quid. Gordon Brown is not exactly throwing money at us these days so, fair play to them.
Looking for Trouble
Bravo Two Zero
Tornado Down
Sea Harrier over the Falklands
etc etc.
IMHO, the real issue is the MoD believing that it has the right to stop these people telling their stories. I don't think the Official Secrets Act would cover any aspect of the Royal Marine's and Mateloe's time in Iranian hands.
Let them earn a few quid. Gordon Brown is not exactly throwing money at us these days so, fair play to them.
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Quick thought- I find it very unlikely that a Civil Servant would go against many years of custom and precedent and take the decision to authorise this sale, no doubt they have given their advice. The decision to allow the selling of these stories to the press is IMO wholly political, ie, one of our 'elected' representatives thinks this is a good idea. I hesitate to speculate as to the desired outcome, but improving relations and reducing tensions between UK and Iran isn't going to be to of the list.
Any guess as to "HOW LONG" it will be before we hear some have BOUGHT THEIR WAY OUT and say THEY ARE SUFFERING FROM "STRESS" , as if the poor servicemen and women in AFGANISTAN and IRAQ don't