Are you staying?
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stay or go?????????????
rudekid,
Like number 2, I am also RAF resigned, have been for over twenty years, ex-Kipper and Shiny Fleets. Left for most of the reasons folks quit these days, even back then we had cuts which meant no spares, airfield guards, exercises, deployments as the nice places to stay had been closed,pay rises were dreams, (nothing is new in aviation). The one good thing was the index linked pension (understand there is still a contract out on the civil servant who thought that one up).
So, now as I sit in the company delay lounge waiting to get the mail to the boys and girls in the sandbox, I think I am quite entitled to browse the public 'Military only' site, having exhausted all the rumours of the day of the outside world. Also, just remember, we civvies pay your pittance salaries.
I am pleased to hear you enjoy service life, but one day you too will have to leave. Start preparing NOW, it is never too late.
Eight screws are better than four blow jobs.
(Old MR saying for the uninitiated)
Like number 2, I am also RAF resigned, have been for over twenty years, ex-Kipper and Shiny Fleets. Left for most of the reasons folks quit these days, even back then we had cuts which meant no spares, airfield guards, exercises, deployments as the nice places to stay had been closed,pay rises were dreams, (nothing is new in aviation). The one good thing was the index linked pension (understand there is still a contract out on the civil servant who thought that one up).
So, now as I sit in the company delay lounge waiting to get the mail to the boys and girls in the sandbox, I think I am quite entitled to browse the public 'Military only' site, having exhausted all the rumours of the day of the outside world. Also, just remember, we civvies pay your pittance salaries.
I am pleased to hear you enjoy service life, but one day you too will have to leave. Start preparing NOW, it is never too late.
Eight screws are better than four blow jobs.
(Old MR saying for the uninitiated)
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
James(SuperTaxPayer)
Please read my posts again. No issue with ex-military blokes on the site. I still however wonder why people feel the need to contribute to a thread entitled "Are you staying" when they've patently already left. Similarly, I object to the increasing criticism of current service life from people who purport to be serving military. I KNOW some of these people have already left and misrepresent themselves. If you have a gripe or a criticism, then your opinion is perfectly valid, serving or not. People shouldn't pretend to be something they're not.
As I've already stated, I wouldn't feel I had the box seat on a thread entitled "How relevant was the kipper fleet in 1983" or "How much more than a peasant military officer do I earn" simply because I wasn't there or my view isn't valid.
Your views are welcomed here, I'm sure.
By the way, you must earn millions flying mail to the sandbox. Best I keep an eye out for you in the ST Rich List...Thanks for paying my pittance, you patronizing t@@t.
Please read my posts again. No issue with ex-military blokes on the site. I still however wonder why people feel the need to contribute to a thread entitled "Are you staying" when they've patently already left. Similarly, I object to the increasing criticism of current service life from people who purport to be serving military. I KNOW some of these people have already left and misrepresent themselves. If you have a gripe or a criticism, then your opinion is perfectly valid, serving or not. People shouldn't pretend to be something they're not.
As I've already stated, I wouldn't feel I had the box seat on a thread entitled "How relevant was the kipper fleet in 1983" or "How much more than a peasant military officer do I earn" simply because I wasn't there or my view isn't valid.
Your views are welcomed here, I'm sure.
By the way, you must earn millions flying mail to the sandbox. Best I keep an eye out for you in the ST Rich List...Thanks for paying my pittance, you patronizing t@@t.
Last edited by rudekid; 16th Feb 2007 at 07:56.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jim208
I think that you have been treated very poorly, by the sounds of it.
On the valedictory letters, I may be able to shed some light: I have recently written valedictory letters for people leaving and these should be sorted by your last unit. We wrote ours (even for guys who weren't technically entitled to them) and posted them, following up to make sure they'd been received. However, this was more than a couple of days after they'd left. Maybe that yours is on the way...ever hopeful.
We have had similar issues with our 'leavers' with JPAC. The only help I can offer is that you should copy the Air Sec and your local MP into any correspondence. Seemed to work for our guys, whose snags have been resolved in reasonable time.
I think that you have been treated very poorly, by the sounds of it.
On the valedictory letters, I may be able to shed some light: I have recently written valedictory letters for people leaving and these should be sorted by your last unit. We wrote ours (even for guys who weren't technically entitled to them) and posted them, following up to make sure they'd been received. However, this was more than a couple of days after they'd left. Maybe that yours is on the way...ever hopeful.
We have had similar issues with our 'leavers' with JPAC. The only help I can offer is that you should copy the Air Sec and your local MP into any correspondence. Seemed to work for our guys, whose snags have been resolved in reasonable time.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chippenham, Wilts
Age: 75
Posts: 297
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Valedictory Letter
I left, in 2005, after 38.5 years. Official letter plus a hand written note from my old pilot, who was previously my AOC, duly turned up about 3 months later. Just wait it will come eventually, some things take time. 
3P
3P
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Age: 55
Posts: 379
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a Nav who's got PAS it seemed daft to leave and work for a living.
As a nav who turned down PA, I feel I'm leaving in order to get a living ....
There is a common misconception the aircrew (esp PA) pay is pretty good. Not for your accrued expertise, and what you do it isn't. I heard a primary school teacher on the radio last week complaing about his excessive work and he only got, wait for it, £35k. Not a Hd, just a teacher! There is money out there, and jobs too.
Take the mick all you guys want, but as much fun as it's been (and believe me, I've done some v cool things), I couldn't see myself as a nav for another 17 yrs .... especially in this political climate.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trapped
I'm staying, I have no choice until the return of service for my APET is complete, once it is...I'm gone.
Why? because I don't feel valued, because I don't have any say in my destiny, and most of all because promotion is dependant on getting the right words on your OJAR, whether you deserve them or not. There are too many people who get promoted simply because their spineless ROs produce a work of fiction instead of an honest report.
Bitter....you bet I am
Worried...no, the job offers from industry are piling up already. At least they know what I am worth!
Why? because I don't feel valued, because I don't have any say in my destiny, and most of all because promotion is dependant on getting the right words on your OJAR, whether you deserve them or not. There are too many people who get promoted simply because their spineless ROs produce a work of fiction instead of an honest report.
Bitter....you bet I am
Worried...no, the job offers from industry are piling up already. At least they know what I am worth!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
13 years in the Andrew, ticked all the boxes, all boxes now removed, nothing to stay for, last box i ticked said PVR next to it. Cheersen.
Let's hope i don't feel quite so undervalued in my next employment but then i don't suppose my next employer will spend £10 million to train me and then just write it off, that would be utterly ridiculous........
Let's hope i don't feel quite so undervalued in my next employment but then i don't suppose my next employer will spend £10 million to train me and then just write it off, that would be utterly ridiculous........
Fat Albert
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wilts, UK
Age: 63
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
29 years down and 9 to go.
Still enjoying most of it at the moment. Even with an OOA looming again.
I still believe that I have something to offer although I am probably mis- employed at the present.
The money is OK, the job is OK, the social life and cameraderie is good.
The bullsh1t and constant change is still just about tolerable.
When any of the above change it will be time to go and preparations for that day are well in hand.
Still enjoying most of it at the moment. Even with an OOA looming again.
I still believe that I have something to offer although I am probably mis- employed at the present.
The money is OK, the job is OK, the social life and cameraderie is good.
The bullsh1t and constant change is still just about tolerable.
When any of the above change it will be time to go and preparations for that day are well in hand.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wilts
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grass greener?
To all of the 'not the RAF I joined' brigade, if life for you 'in' is that bad then why not leave now? Yes things are tight at the mo' - I've done my share of OOAs etc etc over the last 26 years, and was in the Gulf on yet another 4 monther last year, but do not be too hasty in jumping ship. Things in BAES (and others) land are not all rosy - health care registration/no access to free sports facilities/lack of flexibility to family considerations etc etc. I still love the job and the buzz that it gives - and I can honestly say that in many respects - but not all - I am very glad that 'its not the RAF I joined'.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Going
I had been asking for a PC for years and been told no, until suddenly with 2 yrs to go to my SSC exit they said yes.
Excellent I thought until I saw the terms....18/40!!
When I asked why, I was told all new commissions were now on 18/40 terms and not 16/38 (in line with the new pension scheme).
I thought the C in SSC stood for commission so therefore not a new commission just a change in exit date!
It was too late for me to change to the new pension scheme (not that I would have anyway), and so I would remain pension able at 38 but would be signed on until 40. If I wanted to get my pension at 38 I would have to PVR and take a cut in gratuity and pension.
Am I just being cynical or did they wait to offer a PC in order to keep me an extra 2 years......oh wait I'm out of here bye bye and they have lost 5 years possible extra service.
And also for many of the reasons already stated above.
Now that the decision to go has been made it's a load of my mind and I feel quite free.
Excellent I thought until I saw the terms....18/40!!
When I asked why, I was told all new commissions were now on 18/40 terms and not 16/38 (in line with the new pension scheme).
I thought the C in SSC stood for commission so therefore not a new commission just a change in exit date!
It was too late for me to change to the new pension scheme (not that I would have anyway), and so I would remain pension able at 38 but would be signed on until 40. If I wanted to get my pension at 38 I would have to PVR and take a cut in gratuity and pension.
Am I just being cynical or did they wait to offer a PC in order to keep me an extra 2 years......oh wait I'm out of here bye bye and they have lost 5 years possible extra service.
And also for many of the reasons already stated above.
Now that the decision to go has been made it's a load of my mind and I feel quite free.
Last edited by bayete; 17th Feb 2007 at 17:34. Reason: Typing
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just a thought.
All of you that are going, would you mind just pi55ing off and stop whingeing about it.
As anybody who has ever worked in the retail business will tell you, "its not the ones who complain you have to worry about, its the ones who stay quiet but never come back"
Wise words
All of you that are going, would you mind just pi55ing off and stop whingeing about it.
As anybody who has ever worked in the retail business will tell you, "its not the ones who complain you have to worry about, its the ones who stay quiet but never come back"
Wise words
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mid-central South of England
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We make them feel "Pants..."
HMMMMMM let me think about your observations for a while.
Nope I just find your attitude somewhat naive. The ammassed years served by posters here can not just be disregarded and too often the very people we work with who are chasing promotion are the actual ones who should never be promoted. I'm a lifer (I guess) 25 yrs done and still doing it. But I certainly have sympathiies with the comments posted. They were not saying you were doing a crap job. (mind you just cos your paranoid it doesn't mean the worlds not against you)
Boy i wish this thing had a spell checker...AF!
Nope I just find your attitude somewhat naive. The ammassed years served by posters here can not just be disregarded and too often the very people we work with who are chasing promotion are the actual ones who should never be promoted. I'm a lifer (I guess) 25 yrs done and still doing it. But I certainly have sympathiies with the comments posted. They were not saying you were doing a crap job. (mind you just cos your paranoid it doesn't mean the worlds not against you)
Boy i wish this thing had a spell checker...AF!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As someone who left ten years ago - I have no valid reason to comment or indeed possible perception of what appears to be an alien RAF now to the one I was in. Sadly however I hear stories of complete ineptitude from friends who are still in - what appears to be a constant cutting of benefits and inability to make any decisions which will give the RAF an effective fleet to sustain operations.
All this revolves around the same old problems. A command structure that has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo whilst the very people who are on the front line getting the jets in the air and maintaining them are cut savagely. Coupled with this is a procurement procedure that seems to be almost incapable of getting anything right - imagine if we had a similar degree of urgency in 1939!
I am very grateful for those who are currently serving their country and paying for it with their lives in some cases - I am however incensed at the
circumstances that appear to be resulting in large numbers of servicemen
leaving early at huge cost to the taxpayer in terms of training replacements for reasons that seem to be able to be addressed easily.
All this revolves around the same old problems. A command structure that has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo whilst the very people who are on the front line getting the jets in the air and maintaining them are cut savagely. Coupled with this is a procurement procedure that seems to be almost incapable of getting anything right - imagine if we had a similar degree of urgency in 1939!
I am very grateful for those who are currently serving their country and paying for it with their lives in some cases - I am however incensed at the
circumstances that appear to be resulting in large numbers of servicemen
leaving early at huge cost to the taxpayer in terms of training replacements for reasons that seem to be able to be addressed easily.
