Are you staying?
Join Date: Feb 2006
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'Broken' is the key word. After 16 years I am of the opinion that we are broken beyond repair. Our top leadership is criminally inept. People no longer care. Standards are through the floor. Hundreds of Senior Officers but no effective numbers of combat aircraft to support the two wars we are currently fighting!
11 months and counting.
11 months and counting.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Rudekid
I don't 'hang around' a military forum! I still work in aviation and I feel it's important to keep an ear to the ground - is that so bad?! I'm saddened by what is going on in the Service and, just like my ex-RAF father before me, I will always have an interest in it's 'well-being'. I'm sorry if that annoys you so much! If you read my post, I said I had a great time and I never thought I'd leave. The majority of people like me are still entitled to an opinion aren't they - especially as I did 20 years in the Service.
Good luck with your chosen career.
I don't 'hang around' a military forum! I still work in aviation and I feel it's important to keep an ear to the ground - is that so bad?! I'm saddened by what is going on in the Service and, just like my ex-RAF father before me, I will always have an interest in it's 'well-being'. I'm sorry if that annoys you so much! If you read my post, I said I had a great time and I never thought I'd leave. The majority of people like me are still entitled to an opinion aren't they - especially as I did 20 years in the Service.
Good luck with your chosen career.
Join Date: May 2001
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Number 2
You may wish to read my original post again. I don't express (or feel) any annoyance, just a little surprise.
I wouldn't necessarily feel I had a 100% valid input to a debate on, for example, why I love my airline job. Sure, I've got an opinion on why I might not like it, but does that make my opinion more relevent.
Opening a response to a thread entitled 'Are you staying?' with the gambit "Been out three years now" still seems a little strange to my mind.
Maybe I should open a thread entitled "When did you leave and why...' and see what the response woud be...
You may wish to read my original post again. I don't express (or feel) any annoyance, just a little surprise.
I wouldn't necessarily feel I had a 100% valid input to a debate on, for example, why I love my airline job. Sure, I've got an opinion on why I might not like it, but does that make my opinion more relevent.
Opening a response to a thread entitled 'Are you staying?' with the gambit "Been out three years now" still seems a little strange to my mind.
Maybe I should open a thread entitled "When did you leave and why...' and see what the response woud be...
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Top Heaviness
Sorry to butt in here, but why is it so difficult to get rid of all the useless brass? Not just an RAF problem, RN and Army have it too. Surely before units and equipment are cut, expensive but unnecessary senior poosts should be cut?
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I have a private, non-aviation venture (2 actually!) but also have 2 future job interviews in aviation plus a backup of middle east flying.
I met an electrician last month who made 75k in the UK last year. And the year before he made 105k working in Spain. Not Basra or Baghdad, although there are maybe more bullets in Birmingham!?
I have had, as I'm sure others have, the realisation that RAF pay, even as PA, is not actually that good. The truth really is that people who stay either do like their jobs, or just can't be arsed to find another one. If I'd stayed, I'd probably have very quickly become the latter, so decided to go. I've had a good time and will leave with some great memories - it didn't go too sour at the end and I'll look back with satisfaction, pride and a little sadness.
I met an electrician last month who made 75k in the UK last year. And the year before he made 105k working in Spain. Not Basra or Baghdad, although there are maybe more bullets in Birmingham!?
I have had, as I'm sure others have, the realisation that RAF pay, even as PA, is not actually that good. The truth really is that people who stay either do like their jobs, or just can't be arsed to find another one. If I'd stayed, I'd probably have very quickly become the latter, so decided to go. I've had a good time and will leave with some great memories - it didn't go too sour at the end and I'll look back with satisfaction, pride and a little sadness.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Honour????
Fellas,
Alternatively we could all stay - on the off-chance there's a proper scrap (rather than one the septics started) which may require us to get the job done. Oh, but you guys will all be off, re-routing around the war zone, in your wide-bodies, wishing you were strapped in and doing 550 kts carrying skinny white wingmen. Take the cash and run ................... no honour amongst thieves.
Alternatively we could all stay - on the off-chance there's a proper scrap (rather than one the septics started) which may require us to get the job done. Oh, but you guys will all be off, re-routing around the war zone, in your wide-bodies, wishing you were strapped in and doing 550 kts carrying skinny white wingmen. Take the cash and run ................... no honour amongst thieves.
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Pigfist are you having a laugh? the reasons behind the war are a major cause of dissatisfaction to me but even if I believed in it wholeheartedly I would still think living in a tent in the desert for 6 months a year was pretty ****e!!!
I am not keen to get killed thousands of miles away from my family, just war or not! if that makes me a coward so be it.
I am not keen to get killed thousands of miles away from my family, just war or not! if that makes me a coward so be it.
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Smartchap wrote
Im finding myself doing more 14hr fridays, or 12hr night shifts more and more often, that i feel the will to live being sucked out of myself.
I often find myself working unsupervised on aircraft & on aircraft systems that i would like to be supervised incase things go wrong. Sometimes you get a NCO to work with, thats all depending on how spread we are.
Ive been on type now for 18 months ishy, i think ive messed up twice. 1st was a simple error with no incident (inexperienced NCO asked to do something, NC0 pressed wrong button), the 2nd ended up with an incident report.
I regularly moan at those above me about this, but then im often given an un-trained person to help me, thats all find and dandy, but isnt this the case of the blind leading the blind.
With all this hassle & cut-backs, i think to myself why dont i just leave the RAF & go work for BAE at the same pay.
This should have all of us extremely worried!!!!
You should raise a Murphy report or ahatever they are called to highlight this to the top level, at least then when they ignore it you have some documentary evidence to say I told you so.
Im finding myself doing more 14hr fridays, or 12hr night shifts more and more often, that i feel the will to live being sucked out of myself.
I often find myself working unsupervised on aircraft & on aircraft systems that i would like to be supervised incase things go wrong. Sometimes you get a NCO to work with, thats all depending on how spread we are.
Ive been on type now for 18 months ishy, i think ive messed up twice. 1st was a simple error with no incident (inexperienced NCO asked to do something, NC0 pressed wrong button), the 2nd ended up with an incident report.
I regularly moan at those above me about this, but then im often given an un-trained person to help me, thats all find and dandy, but isnt this the case of the blind leading the blind.
With all this hassle & cut-backs, i think to myself why dont i just leave the RAF & go work for BAE at the same pay.
This should have all of us extremely worried!!!!
You should raise a Murphy report or ahatever they are called to highlight this to the top level, at least then when they ignore it you have some documentary evidence to say I told you so.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Toddbabe
Your advice to Smartchap about raising a 'Murphy' report has been tried in the past. An individual on a Unit raised one, and those of us in the know could put Tail Numbers to the many instances mentioned on the form. IIRC Channel 4 got wind of it and even done a 'dispatches' type programme on it. Well, here we are 11 years (ish) down the line and what did it all achieve....hee-haw. No Money, no spares, and the light at the en o the tunnel is a 'kin train coming the other way!!
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Cuz they let me blow stuff up
Kidding. It's not the same as when my dad was in - the RAF I wanted to join, but I get to fly, travel the world and do things that civvies don't. I've tried an office and it drove me mad (don't deal with stupid people very well - "did you know that patronise means to talk down to....").
I've done an OOA and actually enjoyed it a great deal, except the exploding rain. I get paid an paltry sum for my skills (IMHO) but hey.
If all that changes, I'll let you know.
One more thing - if you don't like it, leave - it's just a job. We all carp on about the ethos and camaraderie but it's no different to any well motivated team of people. The RAF owes you nothing (it is, after all just an amorphous concept, not an actual thing) and you only owe it what you agreed at the beginning (and probably some capped actuals you lost the receipts for). Actually, all that said, JPA is the one thing that is making me reconsider. 
Kidding. It's not the same as when my dad was in - the RAF I wanted to join, but I get to fly, travel the world and do things that civvies don't. I've tried an office and it drove me mad (don't deal with stupid people very well - "did you know that patronise means to talk down to....").
I've done an OOA and actually enjoyed it a great deal, except the exploding rain. I get paid an paltry sum for my skills (IMHO) but hey.If all that changes, I'll let you know.
One more thing - if you don't like it, leave - it's just a job. We all carp on about the ethos and camaraderie but it's no different to any well motivated team of people. The RAF owes you nothing (it is, after all just an amorphous concept, not an actual thing) and you only owe it what you agreed at the beginning (and probably some capped actuals you lost the receipts for).
Actually, all that said, JPA is the one thing that is making me reconsider.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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My first day in civvie street
I've been reading PPRune for the last few years and have felt unable to post comments out of loyalty to the service. However.....today is my first day as a civilian for 32 years and I now feel I can comment freely.
I loved the RAF but it is slowly being murdered by lack of leadership from the very top, the first nail in the coffin for me was last year's CASWO's conference. God how I wish I had never gone, to essentially be called a liar by Mr Stirrup himself when I bought to his attention (at his request) details of a contract that was not being fulfilled by the service provider, was disgraceful.
Then came JPA which he had promised would not be unleashed upon us if it had errors in it, shameful.
The pay as you dine debacle (it will come back again I'm sure).
The ring fenced money for project SLAM that disapeared (why on earth would one of the senior officers in our discussion syndicate want me to bring this up with CAS in open discussion?).
Anyhow I used my option to 6 month PVR for over 30 years service. But the RAF had the last laugh as even though I did over 32 years service, JPAC/PSF or whoever is responsible have yet to send me my validictory/testimonial letter. So all I have to show for 32 years is a cheap enamel veteran's badge that the young Man Servs SAC tossed to me when I had the cheek to ask for it on my last working day.
The Civil Servants at Glasgow really don't give a monkies when I ask about pension details and my testimonial (there isn't a single serving officer in their chain of command, so they say).
I feel sad, let down, disgruntled, and disgusted that we are (were) so under-valued, it's not the RAF I knew, well goodbye, I won't hang around YOUR forum guys as I now have another life with an employer whom seems at least to value my existance and efforts.
To all of you who are still in, God Bless, stay safe and good luck...you need it.
An ex PFOM.
I loved the RAF but it is slowly being murdered by lack of leadership from the very top, the first nail in the coffin for me was last year's CASWO's conference. God how I wish I had never gone, to essentially be called a liar by Mr Stirrup himself when I bought to his attention (at his request) details of a contract that was not being fulfilled by the service provider, was disgraceful.
Then came JPA which he had promised would not be unleashed upon us if it had errors in it, shameful.
The pay as you dine debacle (it will come back again I'm sure).
The ring fenced money for project SLAM that disapeared (why on earth would one of the senior officers in our discussion syndicate want me to bring this up with CAS in open discussion?).
Anyhow I used my option to 6 month PVR for over 30 years service. But the RAF had the last laugh as even though I did over 32 years service, JPAC/PSF or whoever is responsible have yet to send me my validictory/testimonial letter. So all I have to show for 32 years is a cheap enamel veteran's badge that the young Man Servs SAC tossed to me when I had the cheek to ask for it on my last working day.
The Civil Servants at Glasgow really don't give a monkies when I ask about pension details and my testimonial (there isn't a single serving officer in their chain of command, so they say).
I feel sad, let down, disgruntled, and disgusted that we are (were) so under-valued, it's not the RAF I knew, well goodbye, I won't hang around YOUR forum guys as I now have another life with an employer whom seems at least to value my existance and efforts.
To all of you who are still in, God Bless, stay safe and good luck...you need it.
An ex PFOM.