E-3D Storm Damage
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Hope you have a fast shutter speed then.....
But then again, you are too far out of the way to be affected by an E3Dink.....so don't get so frothed up about someone elses illicit piccies.
Bet the NAAFI bop is a real killer up there!!!
MOG
But then again, you are too far out of the way to be affected by an E3Dink.....so don't get so frothed up about someone elses illicit piccies.
Bet the NAAFI bop is a real killer up there!!!
MOG
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Out of interest, are the images on here a link to the originals or copies that have been posted here? The post from which they came has gone so I suspect the person responsible has decided to take them off ... maybe someone should do the same here since he obviously doesn't want them online anymore....
Join Date: Jan 2007
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pictures
hello gents
well this is my first post......
all i want to say is............##I am the person who put these pictures on another website, infact i have put them on several websites........
i was merly pointing out that the wind has caused havoc.......
sorry to say as a result of some comments made on this forum, one site has removed my post....
all i will say is, i know full well the rules of photography in the military,
and i will also go on to say i will and shall do as i please,
if anyone has a problem with what i post on the internet, please feel free to send me an e-mail or personal message, i will be more than pleased to talk about my actions....
there are no dead bodies here....i did my fair share of repatreating them from iraq!!
well this is my first post......
all i want to say is............##I am the person who put these pictures on another website, infact i have put them on several websites........
i was merly pointing out that the wind has caused havoc.......
sorry to say as a result of some comments made on this forum, one site has removed my post....
all i will say is, i know full well the rules of photography in the military,
and i will also go on to say i will and shall do as i please,
if anyone has a problem with what i post on the internet, please feel free to send me an e-mail or personal message, i will be more than pleased to talk about my actions....
there are no dead bodies here....i did my fair share of repatreating them from iraq!!
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no actually im a bit annoyed that my post was removed from the other forum,
i posted the pictures, on several sites actually, as a point of interest not to point blame,
i know the rules on piccies in the military, but hey, i thought someone might have been interested!
not many here im guessing!!!
if anyone else feels they need to point out how wrong i was, feel free to email or pm me, i will be happy to discuss it!
i posted the pictures, on several sites actually, as a point of interest not to point blame,
i know the rules on piccies in the military, but hey, i thought someone might have been interested!
not many here im guessing!!!
if anyone else feels they need to point out how wrong i was, feel free to email or pm me, i will be happy to discuss it!
...honest
Join Date: Dec 2006
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no actually im a bit annoyed that my post was removed from the other forum,
Since the images here were posted my someone other than yourself, I wasn't sure if you actually knew they were here - I think most assumed you had asked from them to be removed from CBFS. Hope you didn't think I was trying to put word in your mouth....
As it happens, they were indeed very interesting to see
Cunning Artificer
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Interesting discussion about possible security breach, but as a member of the public I reckon that this is something that shouldn't be covered up. The taxpayer will have to pay to fix it.
We had a B767-300 suffer similar damage at Heathrow when the handling agent's tow tug ran away and took a bite out of the forward hold's belly skin. Repair was by replacement of the damaged frames, stringers and skin. Follow-up was an 'overblow' check to seat all the parts and work harden the repaired area. Total bill came to just over US$8 million. Plus the aircraft was out of service for nearly three months.
I believe that wind damage is classed as an Act of God by the insurers. So, now you know the awful truth. God is a Mover...
We had a B767-300 suffer similar damage at Heathrow when the handling agent's tow tug ran away and took a bite out of the forward hold's belly skin. Repair was by replacement of the damaged frames, stringers and skin. Follow-up was an 'overblow' check to seat all the parts and work harden the repaired area. Total bill came to just over US$8 million. Plus the aircraft was out of service for nearly three months.
I believe that wind damage is classed as an Act of God by the insurers. So, now you know the awful truth. God is a Mover...
It's easy to underestimate the power of a good blow......
Some years ago, an unforecast hurricane hit Bermuda where we were positioned for an air show with a VC10K. It was so suddent that we were locked in the hotel and unable to take any additional precautions over the routine ones of asking for extra chocks to be lashed in place.
The wind and driving rain hosed the chocks out from under the aircraft, which then went for a little walk before being stopped by spectator 'bleachers' set up for the air show. Damage was one bent pod impeller and one scratched slat; both were soon repaired. As an extra precaution, the ground crew also carried out the 'after flight through severe turbulence' and 'heavy landing' procedures - nothing untoward found.
We were very lucky, having been parked on the USN side of the base; the USN runs a tight ship and there was no gash or loose rubbish to dmage the aircraft any further. Whereas a Nimrod wasn't so lucky, with substantial damage over at the civil side of the airport.
When Big G / Big A (delete as applic) decides to show who's boss, you can take all the precautions imagineable, but at the end of the day the wind will often win.
Some years ago, an unforecast hurricane hit Bermuda where we were positioned for an air show with a VC10K. It was so suddent that we were locked in the hotel and unable to take any additional precautions over the routine ones of asking for extra chocks to be lashed in place.
The wind and driving rain hosed the chocks out from under the aircraft, which then went for a little walk before being stopped by spectator 'bleachers' set up for the air show. Damage was one bent pod impeller and one scratched slat; both were soon repaired. As an extra precaution, the ground crew also carried out the 'after flight through severe turbulence' and 'heavy landing' procedures - nothing untoward found.
We were very lucky, having been parked on the USN side of the base; the USN runs a tight ship and there was no gash or loose rubbish to dmage the aircraft any further. Whereas a Nimrod wasn't so lucky, with substantial damage over at the civil side of the airport.
When Big G / Big A (delete as applic) decides to show who's boss, you can take all the precautions imagineable, but at the end of the day the wind will often win.
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Some thread creep here me thinks?
Someone puts some pics of an E3 on here, damaged in a freak accident. Its hardly a secret aircraft?! You could probably have seen the damage from the road/viewing area with binos.
I seem to remember (although my mind has been warped by 3 pages of tedium) that it was asked as to a likely cat of damage and how likely it was to be back in service?
Someone puts some pics of an E3 on here, damaged in a freak accident. Its hardly a secret aircraft?! You could probably have seen the damage from the road/viewing area with binos.
I seem to remember (although my mind has been warped by 3 pages of tedium) that it was asked as to a likely cat of damage and how likely it was to be back in service?
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Safety_Helmut,
What an utterly stupid statement to make!
How on earth can the damage cat be possibly 'frigged' to let the aircrew off the hook? How stupid of you to even suggest a thing.
Just for the record, this particular piece of ground equipment, is operated solely by the ground crew and has got nothing to do with the aircrew whatsoever - arse!
TSM
What an utterly stupid statement to make!
How on earth can the damage cat be possibly 'frigged' to let the aircrew off the hook? How stupid of you to even suggest a thing.
Just for the record, this particular piece of ground equipment, is operated solely by the ground crew and has got nothing to do with the aircrew whatsoever - arse!
TSM
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Safety_Helmut
Sir, I do not believe you frankly. I am either being extremely naiave or you are telling big porkies. Accident catagories are NOT determined by someone's opinion, and cannot be frigged at all. They are a judgement (yes) based on actual damage to an aircraft, NOT the circumstances, and are judged by an independant team of experts (not, as you imply, the culprit of the damage and his mates) If you are really suggesting that you know factually of 'cover ups' on this matter or instances where damage has NOT been accurately reported, then I (and probably the staff at IFS and AAIB) would be most interested in hearing about them.
To suggest that... 'repair work took place at an inappropriate level of repair organisation' is disgraceful, appalling and if it is true, then it is almost certainly illegal and I would suggest that you either retract your remarks immediately or give some examples that can be investigated by the appropriate authorities to substantiate the 'illegal' repairs.
Comments of this nature will undoubtedly find their way into the press, and that is the last thing the RAF needs right now. Allegations of mis-practice, concerning aircraft engineering and ultimately safety will be investigated, make no doubt about that. Nevertheless, I am certain there will many aircrew who are now wondering if the aircraft they are flying has been fixed/repaired by the appropriate or maybe inappropriate organisation as you suggest.
You might have just opened a big can here Helmut, and I am genuinely shocked by your accusations!
Regards to all
TSM
Sir, I do not believe you frankly. I am either being extremely naiave or you are telling big porkies. Accident catagories are NOT determined by someone's opinion, and cannot be frigged at all. They are a judgement (yes) based on actual damage to an aircraft, NOT the circumstances, and are judged by an independant team of experts (not, as you imply, the culprit of the damage and his mates) If you are really suggesting that you know factually of 'cover ups' on this matter or instances where damage has NOT been accurately reported, then I (and probably the staff at IFS and AAIB) would be most interested in hearing about them.
To suggest that... 'repair work took place at an inappropriate level of repair organisation' is disgraceful, appalling and if it is true, then it is almost certainly illegal and I would suggest that you either retract your remarks immediately or give some examples that can be investigated by the appropriate authorities to substantiate the 'illegal' repairs.
Comments of this nature will undoubtedly find their way into the press, and that is the last thing the RAF needs right now. Allegations of mis-practice, concerning aircraft engineering and ultimately safety will be investigated, make no doubt about that. Nevertheless, I am certain there will many aircrew who are now wondering if the aircraft they are flying has been fixed/repaired by the appropriate or maybe inappropriate organisation as you suggest.
You might have just opened a big can here Helmut, and I am genuinely shocked by your accusations!
Regards to all
TSM
I cannot comment on current aircraft damage assessment methods but I doubt if they are much different from when I had the pleasure of being an Aircraft Surveyor (431MU, Brueggen). On notification of damage that the parent Station felt was beyond their capabilities, one of us would hot foot it, armed with the appropriate Vol 6's etc and carry out an in-depth examination. This is not just of the immediate visible damage but also looking for secondary damage caused, for example, by transmission of shock loads. If the damage could be repaired in accordance with (iaw) the Vol 6, the aircraft would be deemed Cat 2 but the Station could ask for help from the MU (Cat 2 Assist). Cat 3 would result in the arrival of an MU working party armed with repair schemes (in some cases drawn by the Aircraft Surveyor) and detailed repair instructions. Depending on the findings, we may well have needed to contact the Design Repair Authority for authority and/or additional repair schemes.
Damage beyond the MU's capabilities is CAT 4 (repair by Contractors working party) and if beyond economical repair then CAT 5.
I cannot imagine that standard of the actual repair work has ever been influenced by what earlier posts imply but politics can and did influence whether something was deemed as CAT 3 or CAT 4.
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Lyneham Lad
Could you elaborate on what you mean by politics affecting categories? I was always of the opinion that, as you state, the difference between 3 and 4 is down to an MU being able to repair as opposed to a civilian organisation/manufacturer? I don't see where politics comes into it.
Clearly S_H you have rattled TSM's cage somewhat! What did you say? From the Monkeys comments it must have been something pretty serious!
As for the AWACS, I too am not an expert, but I would have thought cat4 myself, if for no other reason than Mr Boeing will be wanting to fix the aircraft correctly and properly. That said, the bill from him will be astronomical, and if Joe Bloggs down the road will do for a bit less, chances are he'll get the job!
The Winco
Could you elaborate on what you mean by politics affecting categories? I was always of the opinion that, as you state, the difference between 3 and 4 is down to an MU being able to repair as opposed to a civilian organisation/manufacturer? I don't see where politics comes into it.
Clearly S_H you have rattled TSM's cage somewhat! What did you say? From the Monkeys comments it must have been something pretty serious!
As for the AWACS, I too am not an expert, but I would have thought cat4 myself, if for no other reason than Mr Boeing will be wanting to fix the aircraft correctly and properly. That said, the bill from him will be astronomical, and if Joe Bloggs down the road will do for a bit less, chances are he'll get the job!
The Winco
Winco
I mentioned in #5 that Northrop Grumman are now the Design Authority, as well as prime contractor for the Sentry support. The decision will be, as I understand it, either the team at Waddington or RSS (or whatever they are called nowadays) from St Athan. The last repair for spar corrosion was carried out by a St Athan team. HTH
I mentioned in #5 that Northrop Grumman are now the Design Authority, as well as prime contractor for the Sentry support. The decision will be, as I understand it, either the team at Waddington or RSS (or whatever they are called nowadays) from St Athan. The last repair for spar corrosion was carried out by a St Athan team. HTH