Apache and Royal Marines
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I don't believe that they knew he was dead. Given the historical evidence of what happens to prisoners in that part of the world, you could not leave a man who MAY be alive in the hands of Afghan rebels.
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GBZ don't talk rot, the knowledge that your oppo's will always make the effort to rescue you is worth more than any pep talk in the world.
And since when has a piece of equipment not been worth risking to save the life of a Royal Marine? If that is the way of things then everything would be in grease paper in storage.
And since when has a piece of equipment not been worth risking to save the life of a Royal Marine? If that is the way of things then everything would be in grease paper in storage.
Green,
The Apache does not have the same structure of the Cobra. Even on the Cobra, the external passengers rode out in the open on top of the doors but had no harness or any way to secure themselves to the aircraft beyond holding on.
When the Apache came along...the aircrew survival vest incorporated a carabiner type link to facilitate being secured to the aircraft using the devices built into the aircraft for use during such rides. It was a simple mod to the aircraft that afforded the ability to do what has been done.
The incident under discussion here is the first I heard of troops riding into the LZ.
The fact people have ridden on the outside of a gunship before.....in no way diminishes the Courage and Dedication exemplified by the Marines being praised here.
They are to be greatly admired for what they did.
The Apache does not have the same structure of the Cobra. Even on the Cobra, the external passengers rode out in the open on top of the doors but had no harness or any way to secure themselves to the aircraft beyond holding on.
When the Apache came along...the aircrew survival vest incorporated a carabiner type link to facilitate being secured to the aircraft using the devices built into the aircraft for use during such rides. It was a simple mod to the aircraft that afforded the ability to do what has been done.
The incident under discussion here is the first I heard of troops riding into the LZ.
The fact people have ridden on the outside of a gunship before.....in no way diminishes the Courage and Dedication exemplified by the Marines being praised here.
They are to be greatly admired for what they did.
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moggiee
I didn't read the possibility of L/Cpl Ford still being alive into the news report. The report I heard earlier on the radio seemed in no doubt that he was known to be dead. If he was believed to be possibly alive, I modify my Post accordingly.
I didn't read the possibility of L/Cpl Ford still being alive into the news report. The report I heard earlier on the radio seemed in no doubt that he was known to be dead. If he was believed to be possibly alive, I modify my Post accordingly.
The UK news agenda today is quite despicable. The top story is about Celebrity Big Brother - everywhere. Such a complete waste of time. The Apache story is way down the list.
Anyone got an Apache near Elstree to pick-up 3 rather dumb women ? There's a reservation waiting for them at the Helmand Hilton.
Anyone got an Apache near Elstree to pick-up 3 rather dumb women ? There's a reservation waiting for them at the Helmand Hilton.
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First RIP L/Cpl Ford and condolences to his family and friends.
Second where does the modern British society get such men.I,due to
the magic of satellite TV,can watch BBC 1,2,3,4,ITV1,2,3,4, and find
it very difficult to imagine that this whining ,me, me,me,alcohol-soaked
socialist society as depicted on TV could have produced men such as
these Marines.However maybe something of the Churchillian spirit is still
present in the UK, as an expat. I can only hope so.
One should not mourn these men one should thank God they
lived.
Regards
Second where does the modern British society get such men.I,due to
the magic of satellite TV,can watch BBC 1,2,3,4,ITV1,2,3,4, and find
it very difficult to imagine that this whining ,me, me,me,alcohol-soaked
socialist society as depicted on TV could have produced men such as
these Marines.However maybe something of the Churchillian spirit is still
present in the UK, as an expat. I can only hope so.
One should not mourn these men one should thank God they
lived.
Regards
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You don't get such men from British society, you get them from Lympstone Commando. Some of the best training in the world turns young men into Royal Marine Commandos. Very few meet the standard and 99.9% need not apply.
Hoorah and Huzah.
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BZ to the Royals and Army air Corps. RIP L/Cpl Ford and condolences to nearest and dearest.
Group Captain Barwell in 1943 proposed a method of transporting a couple of ground crewman in canvas bag mounted on top of each wing of a Spitfire. The bag was to be attached using a loop secured to the barrel of the 20mm cannon and the rear of the bag was secured to the wing trailing edge inside of the flap.
It is believed that this scheme was never air-tested with a human passenger for want of a volunteer!!
Group Captain Barwell in 1943 proposed a method of transporting a couple of ground crewman in canvas bag mounted on top of each wing of a Spitfire. The bag was to be attached using a loop secured to the barrel of the 20mm cannon and the rear of the bag was secured to the wing trailing edge inside of the flap.
It is believed that this scheme was never air-tested with a human passenger for want of a volunteer!!
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Apologies in advance for not qualifying as being a military, or for that matter any other aircrew type, however given that others that are not, still frequent this section........ what the Hell
Although I escaped from Immingham long ago, I know L/Cpl Ford's Mother and Stepfather, and I know they would be very pleased to hear that you guys are heaping praise on their son, and the brave lads that risked their own lives to recover him.
I can only remember him as being a spotty teenager, but like some of his RM colleagues, that I met while they did a certain Ex last month. I have the utmost respect for what they do on the ground, just as much as what some of you the aircrew do up above.
As for the news today I agree that some of the personalities could do with a spell in Helmand, instead of harping on ad-nausea how perfect they are.
Thanks
V1
Although I escaped from Immingham long ago, I know L/Cpl Ford's Mother and Stepfather, and I know they would be very pleased to hear that you guys are heaping praise on their son, and the brave lads that risked their own lives to recover him.
I can only remember him as being a spotty teenager, but like some of his RM colleagues, that I met while they did a certain Ex last month. I have the utmost respect for what they do on the ground, just as much as what some of you the aircrew do up above.
As for the news today I agree that some of the personalities could do with a spell in Helmand, instead of harping on ad-nausea how perfect they are.
Thanks
V1
Thought I remembered reading something on this subject elsewhere, then found it here:
http://avia.russian.ee/helicopters_eng/mi-28.php
The pertinent part comes in the airframe description of the Mi28 Havoc:
"port-side door, aft of wing, provides access to avionics compartment large enough to permit combat rescue of two or three persons on ground, although it lacks windows, heating and ventilation."
I've a feeling the Israelis also took a hard look at mods to their AH64s with a view to using them for battlefield extractions too.
http://avia.russian.ee/helicopters_eng/mi-28.php
The pertinent part comes in the airframe description of the Mi28 Havoc:
"port-side door, aft of wing, provides access to avionics compartment large enough to permit combat rescue of two or three persons on ground, although it lacks windows, heating and ventilation."
I've a feeling the Israelis also took a hard look at mods to their AH64s with a view to using them for battlefield extractions too.
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From all members of 656 Squadron AAC, at JHF(A)
Thank you to the 4 brave volunteers that helped recover their fallen comrade.
Thank you to the brave commander that authorised the recovery of his last man (The loneliness of command in those 5 shocking minutes!)
Our sincere condolences go out to the family, fiancé and friends of Lance Corporal Matthew Ford.
Thank you to the 4 brave volunteers that helped recover their fallen comrade.
Thank you to the brave commander that authorised the recovery of his last man (The loneliness of command in those 5 shocking minutes!)
Our sincere condolences go out to the family, fiancé and friends of Lance Corporal Matthew Ford.
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Amazed
Humble civvy here. I saw the usual dribble about some chav programme on TV and was venting my fury in the direction of the good woman. Then the report came on about this incredible event. I struggled to relay the story, incredible bravery almost beyond comprehension. I can only echo the comments of others... These people are 'Great' in Great Britain. As for Mrs Micro, she was equally frustrated at the 'big story' and was speechless and almost in tears as I told her of this brave action.
Bliar does not deserve the luxury of such quality being at his disposal.
AAC Officer at Middle Wallop demonstrated personnel holding on by external grab handles immediately aft of cockpit and described this as a CSAR option. He did mention use of karabiners (sp?).
My condolences to the family of the young Royal Marine. Godspeed.
Bliar does not deserve the luxury of such quality being at his disposal.
AAC Officer at Middle Wallop demonstrated personnel holding on by external grab handles immediately aft of cockpit and described this as a CSAR option. He did mention use of karabiners (sp?).
My condolences to the family of the young Royal Marine. Godspeed.
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DFC Recognition
Its about time my Army Air Corps buddies got the recognition they severely deserve for these outstanding acts of bravery alongside these mighty feats of brave courage from the Marines and Para's.........
Last edited by Sub-Min; 17th Jan 2007 at 18:17. Reason: Addition
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Firstly, condolences to L/Cpl Ford's family, fiance, friends and colleagues.
Secondly, my great respect to those that strapped on and to those that flew them in.
As part of the process of getting the Apaches out to 'stan, the need to strap on was considered and included in the RTS advice, unfortunately this isn't the outcome those involved would have wanted.
sw
Secondly, my great respect to those that strapped on and to those that flew them in.
As part of the process of getting the Apaches out to 'stan, the need to strap on was considered and included in the RTS advice, unfortunately this isn't the outcome those involved would have wanted.
sw
Deepest sympathy to L/Cpl Ford's family and friends.
Wonderful story of the bravery and commitment to recover a fallen comrade.
I hopr those involved get the recognition they deserve.
Doc C
Wonderful story of the bravery and commitment to recover a fallen comrade.
I hopr those involved get the recognition they deserve.
Doc C
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Salute to both the fallen Marine and the Apache drivers.
Another war and some other Marines: http://www.popasmoke.com/story14.html
Another war and some other Marines: http://www.popasmoke.com/story14.html